Just got test results

[Batman]

Hello, I am a 6'2" 235 lb. 28 year old male hovering around 20% - 28% body fat. At 18 years old after high school I was a sedentary 310 lbs. I started Jiu-Jitsu/Kickboxing after I graduated and dropped down to around 210 lbs. in a little over a year. I ended up getting an infection and dropped down to 165 lbs. That was around 6 years ago and I have gained some of my muscle back since then. However I have been in a steady state of depression and aimlessness for years now. After a lot of talk about TRT, and HRT in MMA I decided to get my blood work done since I haven't had sex in about 6 years with zero interest, and I can't remember the last time I had morning wood. Despite being involved in Martial Arts for a large portion of my life with on and off lifting I have never been musculature at all.

I am going to post the results, my doctor thought my symptoms exhibited low testosterone but my results fell into the normal range. I eat rather well, and I don't drink but maybe once a month. I get plenty of sleep, etc. so I was looking for some advice on how to correct what I feel is a possible imbalance. I have looked into Androgel, subcutaneous injections, and intramuscular injections. I am only consulting with a PCP and not an Endocrinologist at the moment. I am willing to get more blood work done if the information provided isn't adequate.

I will try and only include pertinent test results, but if I left anything out let me know and I will reply as soon as I can. Also all of this blood was taken in the morning on an empty stomach after a 12 hour fast. Thanks for your time!

Luteinizing Hormone: 8.2 MIU/ML (Normal 1.2 - 7.8)
Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone: 2.6 PG/ML (Normal 4.0-8.0)

Metabolic Panel
Glucose: 100 MG/DL (Normal 65 - 100)
Sodium: 140 MEQ/L (Normal 133-146)
Protein, Total: 6.6 G/DL (Normal 6.0 - 8.4)
Calculated Globulin: 2.2 G/DL (Normal 2.0 - 3.8)

Thyroid Stimulating Hormone: 1.7 UIU/ML (Normal 0.5 - 4.7)

Hemoglobin: 15.0 G/DL (Normal 13.0 - 17.0)
Hematocrit: 44.2% (Normal 37.0 -49.0)
Neutrophils: 42% (Normal 40 - 74)
Lymphocytes: 45% (Normal 19-48)
Platelet Count: 247 K/UL (Normal 130-400)

Free T3: 3.3 PG/ML (Normal 2.3 - 4.2)

Lipid Panel

Cholesterol: 171 MG/DL (Normal < 200)
Triglycerides: 36 MG/DL (Normal <150)
HDL Cholesterol: 50 MG/DL (Normal >39)
Calculated LDL Cholesterol: 114 MG/DL (Normal < 100)

Testosterone: 467 NG/DL (Normal 292 - 1052)
Calculated Free Testosterone: 6.6 NG/DL (Normal 4.8 - 25.0)
Free T4 Thyroxine: 1.42 NG/DL (Normal 0.73 - 1.95)
DHEA Sulfate: 376 UG/DL (Normal 240 - 549)

Estradiol: 38 MG/DL (Normal <= 63)

 

[Boosted]

I have read on here some members having no libido at 500NG/DL and under so it could be that alone causing the loss in libido. Everyone's body acts differently. There are some more knowledgeable members when it comes to blood work on here so maybe they will chime in. Worst case you try a low dose TRT and if your libido comes back in a few weeks of taking test then you may have figured out your issue.

 

[Batman]

I have read on here some members having no libido at 500NG/DL and under so it could be that alone causing the loss in libido. Everyone's body acts differently. There are some more knowledgeable members when it comes to blood work on here so maybe they will chime in. Worst case you try a low dose TRT and if your libido comes back in a few weeks of taking test then you may have figured out your issue.

Thank you for your input! I will wait to see if anyone else responds, but in the mean time should I just start on a really small dose, and then have some blood work done in the next month? Compare the results, and continue as needed?

 

[weekend]

your LH being high is interesting. (especially with low end gonadotropin releasing hormone)

it may indicate your body wants higher test, but the testicles aren't responding to the output.

i would try 10 weeks on test at 200 mg/week

and then do a proper PCT and see where you stand again with bloodwork.

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

Hello, I am a 6'2" 235 lb. 28 year old male hovering around 20% - 28% body fat. At 18 years old after high school I was a sedentary 310 lbs. I started Jiu-Jitsu/Kickboxing after I graduated and dropped down to around 210 lbs. in a little over a year. I ended up getting an infection and dropped down to 165 lbs. That was around 6 years ago and I have gained some of my muscle back since then. However I have been in a steady state of depression and aimlessness for years now. After a lot of talk about TRT, and HRT in MMA I decided to get my blood work done since I haven't had sex in about 6 years with zero interest, and I can't remember the last time I had morning wood. Despite being involved in Martial Arts for a large portion of my life with on and off lifting I have never been musculature at all.

The depression, aimlessness and lack of interest in sex should to be evaluated by a professional - especially since these symptoms have been present for years.

You can "force" this to be a low TT/hormonal problem but since your symptoms are non specific and your numbers aren't bad, TRT is unlikely to give you the results you're hoping for. You should be evaluated for a depressive disorder. Otherwise, it's entirely possible another six years will go by and you'll still be in the same state. Don't let that happen.

Best of luck

CBS

 

[Batman]

your LH being high is interesting. (especially with low end gonadotropin releasing hormone)

it may indicate your body wants higher test, but the testicles aren't responding to the output.

i would try 10 weeks on test at 200 mg/week

and then do a proper PCT and see where you stand again with bloodwork.

What exactly is a PCT again? I tried looking it up but diseases just kept popping up. I know a lot of people like injections over subdermal applications, but it seems I won't be able to get any Androgel, so I might just go subcutaneous with test cypionate. Can I ask why you feel 200mg/week is a good dose, and why for 10 weeks?

The depression, aimlessness and lack of interest in sex should to be evaluated by a professional - especially since these symptoms have been present for years.

You can "force" this to be a low TT/hormonal problem but since your symptoms are non specific and your numbers aren't bad, TRT is unlikely to give you the results you're hoping for. You should be evaluated for a depressive disorder. Otherwise, it's entirely possible another six years will go by and you'll still be in the same state. Don't let that happen.

Best of luck

CBS

By "professional" do you mean a psychiatrist willing to use SSRIs for treatment? If so, I'm not interested. I'm not trying to force this to be anything, I am merely exploring options. I believe testosterone fluctuates throughout the day as well, and if in the morning on a fast will show my highest levels, and testosterone can fluctuate up to 30%, that means my testosterone levels could drop down to the low 300's. Now of course there is more to it than that, but I do find it odd that the average male in his 20's has testosterone ranging from 600 - 700, and here I am at half that range. I eat rather good, I workout, I lift, and I do BJJ. Why do I have no muscle? The results I'm hoping for are increased libido, and more muscle on my frame.

I just went to weigh myself, 235 lbs., and did a Jackson/Pollock 4 caliper test. I am actually closer to 35% body fat. Which means if I was to drop enough fat to hit 12%, which is some what lean, I would be at 181 lbs. at 6'2". Are you telling me that testosterone wouldn't allow me to add muscle to my frame and increase libido? I find that hard to take in considering everything I've read about TRT. Also I am about to have a full body composition scan done so I can actually determine how much lean muscle mass I have on my frame. I am hoping this will show what the caliper test shows, and what the mirror shows, I have no muscle, and I have an incredibly hard time gaining muscle.

 

[BababooeyHTJ]

I'm a little surprised that your lh is that high with that much e2.

 

[Batman]

I'm a little surprised that your lh is that high with that much e2.

Does this give you the same suspicions as the other poster? That my body wants to produce more test, but can't? I can't recall how many hard groin shots I've taken over the years, or head injuries. I was in a bad car accident when I was younger and went face first into the dash board from the back seat. I do know that pituitary trauma can also cause the malfunctioning of hormone signals. Could you expand on your surprise a bit please?

 

[BababooeyHTJ]

I just thought that your pituitary used E2 levels to gauge how much LH its going to put out.

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

By "professional" do you mean a psychiatrist willing to use SSRIs for treatment? If so, I'm not interested.

I mean a psychiatrist doing a proper examination to determine if your symptoms are due to psych issues.

Note that I'm not saying definitively that you're depressed. Your symptoms are certainly suggestive and for that reason, should be examined.

I'm not trying to force this to be anything, I am merely exploring options.

By discounting the "option" that your symptoms *might* be attributable to depression, you are trying to force it to NOT be something.

I believe testosterone fluctuates throughout the day as well, and if in the morning on a fast will show my highest levels, and testosterone can fluctuate up to 30%, that means my testosterone levels could drop down to the low 300's.

While it's true that TT fluctuates, it can fluctuate in the other direction too. IOW, your TT could just as easily be higher the next time you test it.

Now of course there is more to it than that, but I do find it odd that the average male in his 20's has testosterone ranging from 600 - 700, and here I am at half that range. I eat rather good, I workout, I lift, and I do BJJ. Why do I have no muscle? The results I'm hoping for are increased libido, and more muscle on my frame.

Improving your sex drive and muscle mass is fine but that doesn't address the far more serious issues of depression and aimlessness. Do you think a little more muscle is going to ameliorate that?

I just went to weigh myself, 235 lbs., and did a Jackson/Pollock 4 caliper test. I am actually closer to 35% body fat. Which means if I was to drop enough fat to hit 12%, which is some what lean, I would be at 181 lbs. at 6'2". Are you telling me that testosterone wouldn't allow me to add muscle to my frame and increase libido? I find that hard to take in considering everything I've read about TRT.

That's not what I said. I said giving someone TRT without biochemical evidence of hypogonadism is UNLIKELY to fix long standing depression and aimlessness.

Anxious or depressed men come to Meso all the time pursuing every possible diagnosis they can to solve their problems EXCEPT the most likely one - depression or anxiety. They're convinced TRT or thyroid hormone replacement or some other cure du jour is going "fix" them. Almost universally, they end up no better than when they started.

The most serious problem I see with these people that are chasing after popular diagnoses is the insidious nature of the cycle it creates. i.e., try this - doesn't help; try that - doesn't help either. Before they know it, years have gone by and they're no better. Years of their lives wasted because they are unable or unwilling to except that the diagnosis might be in their mind.

Regards
CBS

 

[Batman]

I mean a psychiatrist doing a proper examination to determine if your symptoms are due to psych issues.

Note that I'm not saying definitively that you're depressed. Your symptoms are certainly suggestive and for that reason, should be examined.

A psychiatrist is always going to tell you it is a psychological issue. That is what they've trained in, that is all they know, and they have an intimate relationship with the big pharmaceutical companies. I reject the notion that SSRIs are good for me, which is the main ingredient to all therapy from a psychiatrist. Also I have seen countless counselors, psychologists, and psychiatrists throughout my life. I can tell you right now speaking with friends and family, or hashing out your issues on a forum is a lot more productive than speaking to a person who is paid to care about you.

By discounting the "option" that your symptoms *might* be attributable to depression, you are trying to force it to NOT be something.

I am simply rejecting the possibility that seeing a psychiatrist to prescribe me drugs is going to assist me in any way. Especially when I have been lifting off and on for 10 years, and training in BJJ for 10 years. Yet here I am with no musculature to speak of, and symptoms that are increasingly pointing in the direction of a hormonal imbalance.

While it's true that TT fluctuates, it can fluctuate in the other direction too. IOW, your TT could just as easily be higher the next time you test it.

Based on the average circadian rhythm male human beings testosterone is highest in the morning. All my tests were done in the morning on a fast. This means the only reason the numbers would fluctuate higher is due to percentage of error with the test. So my T could be higher the next time I test it, but it could also be lower. The only way to know for sure is to do multiple tests over multiple months and form an average. When I get that information I will post it for sure!

Improving your sex drive and muscle mass is fine but that doesn't address the far more serious issues of depression and aimlessness. Do you think a little more muscle is going to ameliorate that?

Yes, I am completely convinced that there is a correlation between male hormones and depression. Also I am convinced that sex is a requirement to lead a healthy life. Increasing libido, returning your sex drive, and a return to sex could do wonders for someone's mental state.

That's not what I said. I said giving someone TRT without biochemical evidence of hypogonadism is UNLIKELY to fix long standing depression and aimlessness.

Anxious or depressed men come to Meso all the time pursuing every possible diagnosis they can to solve their problems EXCEPT the most likely one - depression or anxiety. They're convinced TRT or thyroid hormone replacement or some other cure du jour is going "fix" them. Almost universally, they end up no better than when they started.

The most serious problem I see with these people that are chasing after popular diagnoses is the insidious nature of the cycle it creates. i.e., try this - doesn't help; try that - doesn't help either. Before they know it, years have gone by and they're no better. Years of their lives wasted because they are unable or unwilling to except that the diagnosis might be in their mind.

Regards
CBS

The only biochemical evidence for diagnosing hypogonadism is through blood tests. I have presented by blood test, but you are convinced my issues are simply psychological. I never said I was anxious, and I do not have debilitating depression. I am still able to maintain workouts, complete my work at my job, and visit socially with friends and family. It scares me to know that you've given this advice to so many other men. Diagnostic medicine, especially psychiatry relies on trial and error. Taking a drug, and then seeing how it makes you feel. Why are you so adverse to someone going on testosterone to see how it makes them feel? Do you think I am going to destroy my body? How can you say that someone is wasting years of their lives when they are actively pursuing a solution to their issues? I am not sure what formal training you have in psychology or psychiatry but I find it misleading. As much as I appreciate your willingness to provide assistance, I wish you would provide me assistance with administering testosterone.

 

[tipdog]

For what it is worth, my blood levels were in the 290s and I was referred to a psychiatrist. He didn't find anything wrong with me and told me that it was a physiological issue not a psychological issue. If it truly is a physical problem, they won't haphazardly treat you with Anti-depressants.

 

[Batman]

For what it is worth, my blood levels were in the 290s and I was referred to a psychiatrist. He didn't find anything wrong with me and told me that it was a physiological issue not a psychological issue. If it truly is a physical problem, they won't haphazardly treat you with Anti-depressants.

I can't deny your experiences with psychologists, or psychiatrists. However I have been to both numerous times throughout my life. I am glad to see that they didn't find anything wrong psychologically. So what ended up happening, did you get on TRT/HRT and recover your T levels?