Last blood test is Down and I am starting Hcg.

[pmgamer18]

3 months ago I stopped doing Testim 10 grams and started on 100 mgs of Depo T. shots every week. The reason for doing this is I was having bad joint and muscle pain on the gels. Doing the shots it is gone. So after being on 100 mg. shots for 6 weeks my blood test came back my Total T was 749 ng/dL. This is on the low side for me and the shot was only lasting 4 days. So we upped the shots to 150 mg.s every week for the next 6 weeks and I just got home from the Dr.'s. My Total T is down doing 150 mgs of Depo T. to 686 from 749. My E2 is to low <20 taking one pill of Indolplex/DIM.
Six weeks ago I asked my Dr. about trying Hcg with my shots. He said I was still making LH and FSH and adding Hcg will stop my body from making it. I did not want to fight with him so for my last blood test I had my LH and FSH checked. It came back LH <0.5 range 2.0 to 18.0 mIU/mL. And the FSH was <.04 range 1.6 to 18.1 mIU/mL. Both way to low so he was wrong going on Hcg will not stop me from making LH and FSH I am not making it.
He finely agreed to start me on Hcg with the 150 mg. shots. He is not doing what Dr. John does.
I am to do 125 IU's 3x' a week for 2 weeks MWF then the next 2 weeks do 250 IU'S for 2 weeks MWF then do a blood test for a value.
If this is not enough then the next 2 weeks I am to do 500 IU's MWF then the next 2 weeks 1000 IU's and do a blood test for a value.
He said after we know what dose I need he is going to order the hcg in a pen you dial the dose and it shoots that amount and you just change the needle
I
asked about doing Dr. Johns protocol and he said he wants to do it this way that I may well end up on 250 IU's the two days before my next shot like Dr. John does. He told me to stay on one pill of Indolplex/DIM that the Hcg will bring up my E2 levels.
I feel good no pain and am losing weight in the last 5 weeks I am down 15 lbs. But I have lost my libido and feel blue.
Phil

 

[Matt Muscle]

Phil... as Total T tests can be inaccurate... could this explain why your reading was less than your last tests which showed a higher reading on just 100mgs a week. It doesnt make sense that it would be lower in reality.
Perhaps your libido is low because your taking to much Indolplex.... it lowers E2 and DHT correct?
Can you tell me about this automated hcg doser?

 

[pmgamer18]

Yes my E2 is to low I got a shot yesterday and can feel it comming up. I had morning wood this morning not all the great but it was there. I am waiting for my DHT and Free T result it was not back yet. My Dr. said when I start on the Hcg Fri. it will being up my E2 so not to change the dose of DIM. The pen he is talking about comes mixed and you put a needle on it and dial the dose and press a button and it gives you that amount. He is not going to give me this yet until he knows what does of hcg he wants me to use. What he is doing I don't under stand but it took me this long to get him to give it to me so I am just going with the flow.
Phil

 

[SWALE]

"still making LH and FSH and adding Hcg will stop my body from making it" is incorrect.

I do like the use of DIM, but you need 300mg per day, and MUST take either 450mg of DIM or 750mg of TMG (even better) along with it.

 

[DavidZ]

I do like the use of DIM, but you need 300mg per day, and MUST take either 450mg of DIM or 750mg of TMG (even better) along with it.

Swale, did you mean 450mg of TMG?

Also, is there a brand of TMG that you recommend? For example, some brands come bundled with Pepsin. Should we use or stay away from brands with Pepsin?

 

[1cc]

"still making LH and FSH and adding Hcg will stop my body from making it" is incorrect.

I do like the use of DIM, but you need 300mg per day, and MUST take either 450mg of DIM or 750mg of TMG (even better) along with it.

Swale,

Is there any brand of DIM you prefer, or will any brand do.

 

[SWALE]

Good questions, David Z and 1cc.

Yes, that was a typo. I should have written 450mg of DMG.

This stuff is all so new, I do not know about pepsin or specific brands to recommend.

 

[pmgamer18]

Here is the Indolplex/DIM that David Z and I use dam good stuff.
http://www.ritecare.com/prodsheets/PHY-15336.html
Phil

 

[DavidZ]

This stuff is all so new, I do not know about pepsin or specific brands to recommend.

I think I'll stay away from the ones that include pepsin. From what I've read TMG (aka, Betaine) is touted as helping digestion and pepsin supports that. So, pepsin is probably in there for people with digestive problems.

 

[earthdog]

"I do like the use of DIM, but you need 300mg per day, and MUST take either 450mg of DMG or 750mg of TMG (even better) along with it.

Wait, let me get this straight. If you take DIM, you should use 300mg per day and take either 450mg of DMG or 750mg of TMG along with it. I know what DIM is. What are DMG and TMG, and why do you need to take one of them with the DIM?

 

[earthdog]

Ok, I did a search and found that TMG is supposed to be good for your liver. Does DIM do something bad to your liver?

 

[DavidZ]

Wait, let me get this straight. If you take DIM, you should use 300mg per day and take either 450mg of DMG or 750mg of TMG along with it. I know what DIM is. What are DMG and TMG, and why do you need to take one of them with the DIM?

What Swale meant to say is "If you take DIM, you should use 300mg per day and take either 450mg or 750mg of TMG along with it."

Ok, I did a search and found that TMG is supposed to be good for your liver. Does DIM do something bad to your liver?

Indolplex/DIM stimulates the (sluggish) P450 system in the liver to metabolize E2 into more benign and anti-carcenogenic metabolites (2-hydroxys). (See Shippen's book on the P450 system.)

My experience with DIM (4 years of taking it and advising many men to do so over that period) tells me that:

(a) Getting the dosage right is very tricky. There's a very narrow window of optimum E2, and

(b) The effectivenes of DIM varies GREATLY by brand.

See the last few chapters in my Primer on DIM.

 

[earthdog]

Thanks David. I understand what DIM does, but my question is, what does TMG do, and why is it necessary to to take it if you are taking DIM?

 

[DavidZ]

Thanks David. I understand what DIM does, but my question is, what does TMG do, and why is it necessary to to take it if you are taking DIM?

Swale's explanation is here:

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/search.php?searchid=149628

I don't follow the whole thing, but I'm willing to give it a trial.

 

[pmgamer18]

Swale's explanation is here:

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/search.php?searchid=149628

I don't follow the whole thing, but I'm willing to give it a trial.

David I read the link and still don't quit get it. But when you try this can you let me know what you get and how.
Phil

 

[earthdog]

The link doesn't work for me. You have to enter the link by clicking the Insert Hyperlink button or it won't always work.

 

[DavidZ]

The link doesn't work for me. You have to enter the link by clicking the Insert Hyperlink button or it won't always work.

Search this forum on TMG and one of the 3 threads should be called "I am on HRT with DIM..." Swale's comments are in the 13th message in that thread.