Lipid problem

[coz]

I have just had my lipid's checked & the cholesterol levels are not the best. I'm currently on 85mg cyp / week. My HDL has always been quite low & LDL is the higher range - however the values are getting worse.

Results;

Cholesterol 288 mg/dl (0-200)
Triglycerides 126 mg/dl (0-150)
HDL 8 mg/dl (35-130)
CHOL/HDL 36 (0-4.6)
LDL 255 mg/dl (0-130)
LDL/HDL 31.9 (0-3)

I'm planning to follow up with a doctor, but would like to know what treatments/medication is recommended to lower LDL & higher HDL ? And anyones experience with them.

Thanks

 

[Axl]

hi Coz,

I have the same problems. I think I have posted this before. I noticed that a lot of hypoganadal people have bad CHOL. I think this is because our digestive system is able to extract CHOL from the food, but our endocrine system just isn't able to convert all the CHOL to the different hormones. This leaves excess CHOL in the body. It's just a hunge, and I have no scientific proof for it.

Anyway: here is your plan of action:
1. Optimise your TRT. A good TRT regimen has a beneficiary impact on the lipid profiles.
2. Go and see a diet-expert. I have changed my eating habits a lot the last 6 months. Your TRT-goal is getting healthy. Eating healthy is a very important part of it. I eat 6 times a day, a lot of fruits and veggies and I am moderate on fat food and alcohol. I also do a lot more sports, which is not always easy because I am tired a lot of the time. Have your fatpercentage measured. Aim for a fatpercentage of 17% to 20%. Low fat mass also helps your TRT-regimen because a high percentage of bodyfat provoces aromatase from testosterone to estradiol.
3. The third actionpoint is quite easy: drink 1 Benecol a day. BENECOL Products contain a unique cholesterol-lowering ingredient called Plant Stanol Esters. Plant Stanol Esters actively work by helping to block cholesterol from being absorbed into the digestive system, reducing "bad" LDL cholesterol levels while maintaining "good" HDL cholesterol levels. The effectiveness of Plant Stanol Esters in reducing "bad" LDL cholesterol and total cholesterol has been documented by more than 25 scientific studies, including one report published in The New England Journal of Medicine.

If you do these 3 things well, you should have tackled that cholesterol-problem.

Good luck!
Axl

PS Sorry for the long post...

 

[coz]

Thanks for the reply Axl,

I'm still fine tunning my trt - but mainly in regards to estrogen - i'm cutting the doses of clomid (down to 12.5mg a day) and will finish it this week. I've also started 1/2 a tab of DIM a day. I'm planning on adding HCG to y test cyp soon also.

I do weight training about 4 times a week, and have quite a decent amount of muscle & body fat approx 15%. I also eat a pretty clean diet - low carb, high protien, low fat - although I'm trying to add more veggies & fruit as you said.

The Benecol sounds good & I'll look into getting some - thanks.

With all the above said - are my levels at a range where I should be taking any form of medication ?

 

[benrock]

its all diet , eat 100% quaker oats, fish oil , no sat fat for a month and you will drop 50 points i promise ,

 

[coz]

Thanks benrock - I've recently added oats to diet, and I've been taking 2gm fish oil per day & eat about fish 5 meals a week.. I have hardly any sat fat at all - I eat very low fat diet.. Is there anything else I should be doing ?

As well as LDL being high, I'm also concerned about the HDL being low - 8..

Are my values at a level where I should consider medication ?

 

[Axl]

Thanks for the reply Axl,

I'm still fine tunning my trt - but mainly in regards to estrogen - i'm cutting the doses of clomid (down to 12.5mg a day) and will finish it this week. I've also started 1/2 a tab of DIM a day. I'm planning on adding HCG to y test cyp soon also.

I do weight training about 4 times a week, and have quite a decent amount of muscle & body fat approx 15%. I also eat a pretty clean diet - low carb, high protien, low fat - although I'm trying to add more veggies & fruit as you said.

The Benecol sounds good & I'll look into getting some - thanks.

With all the above said - are my levels at a range where I should be taking any form of medication ?

I would not be taking any meds at this point just yet. You are still adapting your TRT protocol. There is a nuticional cause for that high LDL. Try to find that. I bet you are taking proteinshakes and stuff. Check if the use fat in the productionproces. My best guess is that you are overloading your proteinintakes. Don't take those supplements. Go to a more "natural" diet. Just eat natural unprossed fresh foods, no supplements. You are taking enough protein if you eat 200 grams of fish... Solve it through a healthy diet, not by meds.

 

[coz]

Great, thanks Axl,

Yes I will look into the protien powders I take (as I have 3 or so shakes a day), I also was smoking - but have stopped that today.... And will look into my diet some more.

What kind of time frame could I expect it to drop if my diet is sorted out ? Are we talking weeks, months ?

Thanks

 

[Axl]

Difficult to say. It will certainly take you more than one week to sort out your diet. See a nutricionist, that's the best advice I can give you. I took me two months just to adapt me eating habbits. We changed it one step at a time. We started with adding Benecol (I don't want to sound like I am selling that stuff, I suspect there are other products around as well but it's the only brandname I know).

If that's all sorted out, you can expect to notice some changes within 3 weeks to a month. At least I did...

Are you sure you are at 15% fat??? I mean: that's extremely low. You must be looking like a thriathlon athlete?? Did you get it measured with a good appliance and a good method?

 

[Weatherlite]

There are some meds out there which raise Chol. Accutane is one of them. When on that my LDL jumped almost 100 points!!!

Anyway, your fish oil intake is not enough. 10g/day is standard for anyone with Chol issues. The higher HDL will help "scrub" out the LDL. There was a post a while back about how that worked if you want to know the exact way.

Also, policosinol. This can be found in pill form. It will lower your chol in a similar way as the drink ASaxon mentioned.

Most protein shakes don't have much fat or chol at all, BTW.

Diet may be a factor but it's also genetic in some. If you're sure that your diet is good then make sure your TRT is dialed in and try upping the fish oil and adding in the policosinol. If all else is good then you may want to consider a doctor consult....BEWARE the statins!!!! Those things killed me!! I dropped off of them against doctor's orders. Feel 10 times better off of them than on and they only dropped my LDL levels by 30 points.

 

[benrock]

try the diet for a month and get more blood drawn, is anybody in your family have high col . ?

 

[mranak]

I would not be taking any meds at this point just yet. You are still adapting your TRT protocol. There is a nuticional cause for that high LDL. Try to find that. I bet you are taking proteinshakes and stuff. Check if the use fat in the productionproces. My best guess is that you are overloading your proteinintakes. Don't take those supplements. Go to a more "natural" diet. Just eat natural unprossed fresh foods, no supplements. You are taking enough protein if you eat 200 grams of fish... Solve it through a healthy diet, not by meds.

Just my opinion:

I disagree that (whey) protein shakes are the cause of these elevated numbers. Whey protein shakes are low in carbs and fat. I know of no evidence to suggest that high protein intake will negatively affect the lipid panel.

For optimal muscle gains, high protein intake is a necessity. And 200grams of fish/day is probably not a good idea due to the higher levels of toxins (mostly mercury) in fish.

Supplements should be judged on a per-supplement basis. For example, DIM might have a negative impact since it reduces estrogens, but most supplements will have no effect.

My cholesterol was over 300 without protein shakes and it is over 300 with protein shakes, although my Chol/HDL ratio is much better than benrock's. I'm doing cardio and cleaning up my diet: minimal bad fats, high vegatables, low sugars, etc. I'm also taking that evil statin medication.

 

[zaarel2]

Lots of good advice in this thread. I used to have terrible cholesterol values. Those values for me were generally a reflection of a sedentary lifestyle and horrible diet. Now even on HRT (5gms androgel/per day and 100iu hcg) mine is literally perfect. I definately agree with the fish oils, whole oats and just generally healthy diet. From what I read and have experience cardio helps a lot as well.

 

[coz]

Thanks for all the responses guys;

I'm going back today to get the tests run aain, just to confirm the values.

Anyway, your fish oil intake is not enough. 10g/day is standard for anyone with Chol issues.

Also, policosinol. This can be found in pill form. It will lower your chol in a similar way as the drink ASaxon mentioned.

Diet may be a factor but it's also genetic in some. If you're sure that your diet is good then make sure your TRT is dialed in and try upping the fish oil and adding in the policosinol. If all else is good then you may want to consider a doctor consult....BEWARE the statins!!!! Those things killed me!! I dropped off of them against doctor's orders. Feel 10 times better off of them than on and they only dropped my LDL levels by 30 points.

Yes, I always thought my diet was very clean - low carbs, high protiens from lean meat & fish, although I am increasing the amount of vegies recently. I have always had low HDL - even when younger, although it was not below range. LDL also was never so high.

I will look into the policosinol & add more fish oils, thanks

i disagree that (whey) protein shakes are the cause of these elevated numbers. Whey protein shakes are low in carbs and fat. I know of no evidence to suggest that high protein intake will negatively affect the lipid panel.

For optimal muscle gains, high protein intake is a necessity. And 200grams of fish/day is probably not a good idea due to the higher levels of toxins (mostly mercury) in fish.

Supplements should be judged on a per-supplement basis. For example, DIM might have a negative impact since it reduces estrogens, but most supplements will have no effect.

Yes, I've always assumed that protien shakes would be ok - My PWO shake is 4g fat (1.5 sat), 27 Carb, 35mg cholesterol, 53g Protein.. The ones I take at other times are lower in fat and have almost no carbs (although i mix them with skim milk/low sugar soy milk)

Do you think that 1/2 a DIM could be affecting the values ? Thanks

 

[coz]

Just curious what fish oil's you all use & recommend ?

Thanks

 

[zaarel2]

I love Carlsons lemon flavored liquieds. They are fabulous.

 

[mranak]

Do you think that 1/2 a DIM could be affecting the values ?

If anything, I think it is minor.

Just curious what fish oil's you all use &

SWALE's opinion is that you need to go with Carlson's fish oil because it is clearly without toxins and it doesn't take bad like real fish oil.

I use a fish oil that I believe to be reasonably free of toxins based on the available information. Last time I made the mistake of not purchasing the enteric coated capsules so that I could save a few bucks. I won't make that mistake again. I buy from puritan.com. Do a search through google and you can usually find a 70% off coupon.

 

[coz]

Thanks guys,

Here's a good site with lots of information & studies done on supplements that increase HDL & lower LDL..

http://www.loweringcholesterol.net/show/raise-hdl-cholesterol