Low-dose Cycle Design

[MountainBaby]

Hey folks. Long-time listener, first time caller.

I'm gearing up (pun intended) for my first cycle. While I wait for results on my most recent labs and a discussion with my Doc, this seemed like it could be an interesting topic to start here.

Background:
I've been training for ~19 years at various levels of intensity and frequency. Sports science and nutrition has been a passion most of my life, and I work to add knowledge to that base every week, so I feel I am making good use of my training and nutrition vectors. Until ~18 months ago, I was completely (intentionally) ignorant about AAS. As of ~6 months ago, I am on Dr. prescribed TRT (125mg cyp. administered Mon/Wed/Fri) to treat actual hypogonadism and feel the best I ever have. Currently on a 6-week cut to trim some fat / recomp (down from 12% on calipers) before heading back into a ~4-6 month, mild surplus/bulk.

My goal(s):
I am proud of my physical performance, but I've never quite been able to get my physique as 'pretty' as I'd like it to be. My current cut is to lose 10 lbs, my goal with the following surplus is to then add back ~6-8 lbs of lean mass (195lb -> 185lb ->19Xlb). I am certain I can achieve this via training and diet adherence alone, but I'm curious to see how some compounds may be able to help me be a little fuller/leaner/prettier. Plus, I don't compete in sports any more (hence finally starting TRT), so... what the heck.


I've been pretty dead-set on adding 100mg Primo to my 125mg of Test, running that for 8 weeks, and calling it a day - but finding credible Primo to ship to US seems a little difficult at the moment. I may still go this approach, but wanted to ask the boards (and will ask my Doc) what may be the best way to help me pretty up while staying under ~300mg total weekly stack.

125mg Test / 100 primo?
250 Test?
Test & ~1-2 IU GH?
Something else?

Appreciate your inputs!

 

[LongTimeTRT]

What about adding in 5 or 6 weeks of 20 -.40mg of Anavar at the end? I'm also on TRT at 120mg / week and am going to do a blast after a couple more.weeks of cutting. Thinking of going up to 400mg / week of Test though with Anavar at the end. Do you want to keep under 300mg of test to limit estrogen?

 

[Grady]

What about adding in 5 or 6 weeks of 20 -.40mg of Anavar at the end? I'm also on TRT at 120mg / week and am going to do a blast after a couple more.weeks of cutting. Thinking of going up to 400mg / week of Test though with Anavar at the end. Do you want to keep under 300mg of test to limit estrogen?

Is he saying he wants to stay under 300mg testosterone or total gear combined? If it's under 300mg total I would probably just use testosterone. Otherwise I like your idea of 400mg test with some anavar at the end.

 

[LescoBrandon]

1 compound at a time for your first cycle. find out how you respond to a compound before adding in another even if its something like primo that most people dont get sides from.

 

[hp15]

I would just bump up the testosterone dose and see how your body responds. Cheap, effective and no need to worry about if your primo is legit.

Keep it simple - no need to add 1-2+ additional compounds if you haven’t even dabbled with 250mg+ testosterone.

The “getting pretty” thing (besides the short term cosmetic affect of some AAS) just boils down to how lean you can get with diet and training.

 

[MountainBaby]

No objections to these test only suggestions. I’ve got it on hand and have an easy, legal path for more. Well, I’ve also got some pharma Var on hand, so maybe a sprinkle of that in as well

My reasoning for the slower gain after this cut is precisely that, to hopefully keep leaner (prettier) on the way back up. Only planning to have a caloric surplus of ~1/2 lb per week.

Keep it coming!

 

[EazyE]

No objections to these test only suggestions. I’ve got it on hand and have an easy, legal path for more. Well, I’ve also got some pharma Var on hand, so maybe a sprinkle of that in as well

My reasoning for the slower gain after this cut is precisely that, to hopefully keep leaner (prettier) on the way back up. Only planning to have a caloric surplus of ~1/2 lb per week.

Keep it coming!

Up your test to 400mg per week. That will do wonders along with watching your macros closely. You don’t need any other compounds to achieve your goal.

 

[MountainBaby]

Alright, bloodwork results are in. I have a hunch the higher test only cycle may not be for me.

Current protocol is 125mg/wk cyp. Pinning M/W/F. Labs taken Monday morning before injection - so 3 days removed from last pin.

Results-
Total T: 753
Free T: 30
SHBG: 20
E2: 43.5

These are my first labs on TRT. I’m surprised to see my E2 as high as it is considering my total test is firmly in the physiological range.

Anywho, I meet with my doc in 2 weeks and will discuss this with him. I’m thinking maybe Primo looks a little better for me considering what could happen to my E2 if I double or triple my test for 8 weeks?

 

[EazyE]

Alright, bloodwork results are in. I have a hunch the higher test only cycle may not be for me.

Current protocol is 125mg/wk cyp. Pinning M/W/F. Labs taken Monday morning before injection - so 3 days removed from last pin.

Results-
Total T: 753
Free T: 30
SHBG: 20
E2: 43.5

These are my first labs on TRT. I’m surprised to see my E2 as high as it is considering my total test is firmly in the physiological range.

Anywho, I meet with my doc in 2 weeks and will discuss this with him. I’m thinking maybe Primo looks a little better for me considering what could happen to my E2 if I double or triple my test for 8 weeks?

The only real way to know for sure is to up your test and do bloods again. Otherwise it’s just speculation based on 1 set of labs.

 

[Iron_Yuppie]

Anywho, I meet with my doc in 2 weeks and will discuss this with him. I’m thinking maybe Primo looks a little better for me considering what could happen to my E2 if I double or triple my test for 8 weeks?

Eight weeks is so short, man. Muscle growth takes time and drugs can speed up that process a little bit, but not nearly what you think. Your goal of 6-8lbs of lean mass is ambitious enough as it is, but limiting it to eight weeks moves it from improbable to damn near impossible. Guys are ecstatic about adding 5lb of actual muscle tissue over a 20 week cycle, and that’s with a lot more testosterone than you’re considering. Either adjust your goals way down or adjust you cycle plan way up.

 

[MountainBaby]

The only real way to know for sure is to up your test and do bloods again. Otherwise it’s just speculation based on 1 set of labs.

Of course you're right. I'm gonna stop trying to be cute with it, up to 250mg test and see where it gets me

Eight weeks is so short, man. Muscle growth takes time and drugs can speed up that process a little bit, but not nearly what you think. Your goal of 6-8lbs of lean mass is ambitious enough as it is, but limiting it to eight weeks moves it from improbable to damn near impossible. Guys are ecstatic about adding 5lb of actual muscle tissue over a 20 week cycle, and that’s with a lot more testosterone than you’re considering. Either adjust your goals way down or adjust you cycle plan way up.

Sorry for not being more clear. My goal for the rest of the year is to add 6-8 lbs lean tissue. My primary anabolic agent will be calories. When I come out of my current deficit and start a bulk, I just want to add a little boost to that rebound in the form of some AAS assistance. Maybe I should still consider a longer run of something than 8 weeks, but this feels comfortable - and I can reevaluate once I'm into the cycle a bit and assessing sides.

I enjoy the process of training, recovering and improving. I'm not looking for a mechanism to cram my ~6 months of progress and enjoyment into 8 weeks.

 

[LongTimeTRT]

Of course you're right. I'm gonna stop trying to be cute with it, up to 250mg test and see where it gets me



Sorry for not being more clear. My goal for the rest of the year is to add 6-8 lbs lean tissue. My primary anabolic agent will be calories. When I come out of my current deficit and start a bulk, I just want to add a little boost to that rebound in the form of some AAS assistance. Maybe I should still consider a longer run of something than 8 weeks, but this feels comfortable - and I can reevaluate once I'm into the cycle a bit and assessing sides.

I enjoy the process of training, recovering and improving. I'm not looking for a mechanism to cram my ~6 months of progress and enjoyment into 8 weeks.

Sounds like a good plan. And I also wouldn't worry too much about a slightly elevated E2 level unless you're getting more sides than you like as it's likely to level off if you give it some time. Hold off on adding AI's and only use the bare minimum. At 250mg test you might need a little PRN. 250mg should also give you a nice anabolic boost once going into calorie maintenance and surplus. If you feel good at 8 weeks you can re-assess as you say and go longer.

 

[Jaxino]

I felt the best after a surgery on:
250 TestE ew
200 PrimoE ew
2-4iu HGH before bed ed
500mg Berberine at Breakfast Lunch Dinner
My total test was around 1200 and E2 35ish.

This would be for sure my HRT for life once over 50 y old.