Low LH/FSH on PCT, fake meds???

[MaxGaines]

I've just finished PCT and have been feeling like absolute shit for weeks now, no libido despite being a lifelong horndog, depression, no motivation. I decided to get blood work immediately after the serm phase and surprisingly my LH and FSH numbers are bottomed out and total test was the lowest I've ever had. My HCG tested positive on a pregnancy test but could my clomid (50mg for 35 days) and tamoxifen(20mg for 45 days) have been weak or under dosed? I'm thinking I'll just low dose TE a week along with a proviron until I can find a reputable source to try PCT again. I realize there is probably more info I could give to shed more light on the situation but I can't even think straight right now( is brain fog a lowT symptom?)

Last cycle was a gram of testE that put me at 4000 total 1500 free, 300mg trenA/300mg trenE, 400mg nandralone decanoate. Prior to this it was around two years of blast and cruise.

FSH <0.7
LH <0.2
Total test at 98
estradiol at 17

 

[T&H]

I've just finished PCT and have been feeling like absolute shit for weeks now, no libido despite being a lifelong horndog, depression, no motivation. I decided to get blood work immediately after the serm phase and surprisingly my LH and FSH numbers are bottomed out and total test was the lowest I've ever had. My HCG tested positive on a pregnancy test but could my clomid (50mg for 35 days) and tamoxifen(20mg for 45 days) have been weak or under dosed? I'm thinking I'll just low dose TE a week along with a proviron until I can find a reputable source to try PCT again. I realize there is probably more info I could give to shed more light on the situation but I can't even think straight right now( is brain fog a lowT symptom?)

Last cycle was a gram of testE that put me at 4000 total 1500 free, 300mg trenA/300mg trenE, 400mg nandralone decanoate. Prior to this it was around two years of blast and cruise.

FSH <0.7
LH <0.2
Total test at 98
estradiol at 17

Were your serms pharma?

 

[MaxGaines]

Were your serms pharma?

No, all from a UG line from a source on this board. I'd rather not name the source yet.

 

[The Terminator]

How long after your last shot of roids did you start your serms? With Deca in there that alone would extend the time between last shot and serms. Also idc how well known a source is but I’d pay the extra for good pharma, US, Canada, EU, Turkish or even Iran Hormone pharma. Also hCG passing doesn’t necessarily mean that it wasn’t degraded or underdosed if it too was UGL.

Good thing is that you’ve been off for >45 days so you’re low enough to redo pct. I’d get the real thing this time, run run hCG until your T goes up 4-5x so 400-500 and then start your serms.

Yes brain fog can definitely be a symptom of low T. Could be other things like depression but probably due to being at 98Ng when you were at 4000ng just a month ago

 

[Silentlemon1011]

I would also be interested in knowing how long from last pin you waited to start PCT.
Deca is not a compound I ever recomend using if you're going to PCT.

 

[MaxGaines]

How long after your last shot of roids did you start your serms? With Deca in there that alone would extend the time between last shot and serms. Also idc how well known a source is but I’d pay the extra for good pharma, US, Canada, EU, Turkish or even Iran Hormone pharma. Also hCG passing doesn’t necessarily mean that it wasn’t degraded or underdosed if it too was UGL.

Good thing is that you’ve been off for >45 days so you’re low enough to redo pct. I’d get the real thing this time, run run hCG until your T goes up 4-5x so 400-500 and then start your serms.

Yes brain fog can definitely be a symptom of low T. Could be other things like depression but probably due to being at 98Ng when you were at 4000ng just a month ago

I started hcg 3 weeks after my last shot of test but I cut the tren and deca maybe a week or two before my last test shot.

I've since learned about how deca can stick around and won't be using it again. I've heard that tren can shut you down "harder", but I was under the idea that shut down was shut down and that there weren't varying degrees.

Lesson learned, dont gamble with pct meds from the UG. I feel like even under dosed I should have gotten some response from it.

 

[Silentlemon1011]

I started hcg 3 weeks after my last shot of test but I cut the tren and deca maybe a week or two before my last test shot.

I've since learned about how deca can stick around and won't be using it again. I've heard that tren can shut you down "harder", but I was under the idea that shut down was shut down and that there weren't varying degrees.

Lesson learned, dont gamble with pct meds from the UG. I feel like even under dosed I should have gotten some response from it.

Nothinf wrong with Nadrolone
But if you're going to PCT
Use NPP as apposed to Nandrolone Undecoanate

Deca is a Blast and cruise compound IMHO

 

[MaxGaines]

Nothinf wrong with Nadrolone
But if you're going to PCT
Use NPP as apposed to Nandrolone Undecoanate

Deca is a Blast and cruise compound IMHO

Sounds like solid advice. I've always ran mostly long esters so I never even considered NPP. In hindsight I couldn't even tell a difference from adding deca this cycle, test and tren are where it's at for me.

 

[Silentlemon1011]

Sounds like solid advice. I've always ran mostly long esters so I never even considered NPP. In hindsight I couldn't even tell a difference from adding deca this cycle, test and tren are where it's at for me.

I find I never "Notice" the Nadrolone in terms of FEELZ.
But I definatly notice the shoulders doing better and the size gains.
My lats look much fuller too, love me some Nandrolone.

Fucking weird that it specifically helps my lats so much... purely anecdotal.
But I need the help with lats, definite week spot... also considering my serratus is gargantuan.

Love the fullness it provides as well.

a lot of guys say 19nors shut you down harder.
But I dont k ow any studies that say this, I'm 100% open to someone proving me wrong, I'm here to learn.

@The Terminator is a knowledgeable guy, I'd take his advice and restart your PCT

 

[Old]

I started hcg 3 weeks after my last shot of test but I cut the tren and deca maybe a week or two before my last test shot.

Did you run hcg during PCT?
How long did you run hcg?
What was your cruise dose?

Last cycle was a gram of testE that put me at 4000 total 1500 free, 300mg trenA/300mg trenE, 400mg nandralone decanoate. Prior to this it was around two years of blast and cruise.

FSH <0.7
LH <0.2
Total test at 98
estradiol at 17

So your a guy mid 30's who has been 'blast and cruise' for ~3 years without using hcg. You've been using 2 grams/wk of products. So your balls and HPT have been shut down 3 years.

• A few weeks of hcg is not a guarantee to recover testicular function. Some run it the entire cycle, even cruise
• Both tren and deca must be out of your system before PCT. That takes many weeks. PCT will not work otherwise.
• If you ran hcg during PCT, it will not work correctly.

Do as The Terminator said

Good thing is that you’ve been off for >45 days so you’re low enough to redo pct. I’d get the real thing this time, run run hCG until your T goes up 4-5x so 400-500 and then start your serms.

.

 

[kosp]

come on mate, 3 years of roids non-stop and you´re complaining about being suppressed? your recovery may take years.

 

[MaxGaines]

Did you run hcg during PCT?
How long did you run hcg?
What was your cruise dose?


So your a guy mid 30's who has been 'blast and cruise' for ~3 years without using hcg. You've been using 2 grams/wk of products. So your balls and HPT have been shut down 3 years.

• A few weeks of hcg is not a guarantee to recover testicular function. Some run it the entire cycle, even cruise
• Both tren and deca must be out of your system before PCT. That takes many weeks. PCT will not work otherwise.
• If you ran hcg during PCT, it will not work correctly.

Do as The Terminator said


.

I've never ran hcg on cycle, I was told it was pointless.

I ran it for around three weeks for a total of 20k IU's, then started clomid and tamoxifen.

Cruise dose has varied, whatever put me at the high end of the natural range. As much as 225mg a week at one point and that was Dr. administered pharma test.

Is there a limit to how long I can run hcg when try it again? Can I become desensitized to it?

 

[MaxGaines]

come on mate, 3 years of roids non-stop and you´re complaining about being suppressed? your recovery may take years.

Not so much complaining about being suppressed, as I've always know it was a possibility. My main concern is that there may be a source here selling bunk meds.

I'm going to look Into some of our analytical resources and see if I can get these remaining tabs tested.

 

[BirdieNumNum]

Get pharma grade medication. I'm surprised your steroid supplier cannot get it. What a joke.

 

[BirdieNumNum]

I'll peck his fucking eyes out for being a shit guy.

 

[MaxGaines]

The terminator definitely seems to know pct. I've read many of his post. The plan now is to cruise until I find another source.

 

[MaxGaines]

Get pharma grade medication. I'm surprised your steroid supplier cannot get it. What a joke.

Lol a big majority of my aas drugs have been homebrew so no real source there to speak of.

My buddy is about to put in an order with his source, anyone have an opinion on Hilmas pct meds??

 

[Old]

I've never ran hcg on cycle, I was told it was pointless.

I ran it for around three weeks for a total of 20k IU's, then started clomid and tamoxifen.

Cruise dose has varied, whatever put me at the high end of the natural range. As much as 225mg a week at one point and that was Dr. administered pharma test.

Is there a limit to how long I can run hcg when try it again? Can I become desensitized to it?

Unfortunately there are lots of myths. Hcg during cycle is ideal. Some just do the latter part and that works for them. Either they want to succeed at restoring natural production as you are trying now, or they just don't like their balls to shrink, or they want to produce kids someday.

The whole desensitizing thing isn't supported in medical documents. I've seen human studies of a year or more ... one was 10 years. There are a variety of treatment amounts for hcg, often pertaining to fertility.

Here is a potential interesting medical article: Indications for the use of human chorionic gonadotropic hormone for the management of infertility in hypogonadal men

• "For men who do not desire to preserve fertility, testicular size can me maintained while undergoing TRT with 1,500 IU of HCG given weekly"
• "Cycle off TRT/AAS every 6 months with a 4-week cycle of 3,000 IU hCG every other day"

 

[Silentlemon1011]

Unfortunately there are lots of myths. Hcg during cycle is ideal. Some just do the latter part and that works for them. Either they want to succeed at restoring natural production as you are trying now, or they just don't like their balls to shrink, or they want to produce kids someday.

The whole desensitizing thing isn't supported in medical documents. I've seen human studies of a year or more ... one was 10 years. There are a variety of treatment amounts for hcg, often pertaining to fertility.

Here is a potential interesting medical article: Indications for the use of human chorionic gonadotropic hormone for the management of infertility in hypogonadal men

• "For men who do not desire to preserve fertility, testicular size can me maintained while undergoing TRT with 1,500 IU of HCG given weekly"
• "Cycle off TRT/AAS every 6 months with a 4-week cycle of 3,000 IU hCG every other day"

Precisely this.
The following is anecdotal, (There are studies to support it, but it is personal experience)

When blasting AAS, its not like your natural production is shut down immediatly.
It takes me about 1 month of AAS (Usually in the 1 gram of compounds range, including 19nor) to notice a decent bit of shrinkage of my testicles.

like @Old said, HCG will prevent the full atrophy.

on a 12 week cycle, I will go through... 5k around the middle of my cycle to restart testes
Then anothe 10k ne the end to kickstart testes before taking my SERMs.

I find it is SIGNIFICANTLY easier to recover when you dont have full blown shutdown of your balls.

I also agree, the leydig desensitization is a myth, it was only seen in one study on rats and has never been reproduced in a human trial... of which many have been done with HCG

 

[Pineapples4Puss]

Unfortunately there are lots of myths. Hcg during cycle is ideal. Some just do the latter part and that works for them. Either they want to succeed at restoring natural production as you are trying now, or they just don't like their balls to shrink, or they want to produce kids someday.

The whole desensitizing thing isn't supported in medical documents. I've seen human studies of a year or more ... one was 10 years. There are a variety of treatment amounts for hcg, often pertaining to fertility.

Here is a potential interesting medical article: Indications for the use of human chorionic gonadotropic hormone for the management of infertility in hypogonadal men

• "For men who do not desire to preserve fertility, testicular size can me maintained while undergoing TRT with 1,500 IU of HCG given weekly"
• "Cycle off TRT/AAS every 6 months with a 4-week cycle of 3,000 IU hCG every other day"

I’ve heard so many differing opinions on this.
I’ve read as low as 500-750 ius a week is more than enough to maintain testicular size. What are your thoughts on lower dosages? I’m going to try both to see.

I guess the only benefit this would have is stretching your hcg linger giving you more injections per vial. So may as well do the 1500 a week.