Megadosing Melatonin safe?

[Luke391]

I make my own capsule of Magnesium Glycinate / L Theanine / Melatonin - approx 200mg elemental magnesium / 400mg L theanine and ~30 mg Melatonin. (My magnesium powder high% elemental magnesium and capsule size is max "000" if you wonder how I fit so much).

In the beginning the melatonin has you dead in the morning but this fades quickly and feels very refreshing. Only downside is sometimes I wake at mid night. Usually another capsule does the trick but I am considering modifying it with an ingredient that keeps knocked out..

Some ideas I've had is psyllium powder and melatonin for slower release.

Magnesium threonate
or
Low dose Trazodone

Anyone got some suggestions?

there are instant release melatonin drops/softgels and slow release melatonin pills. you could do a mix of dose. Being dead in the morning is usually because you still have a lot of melatonin in your system. Doing 50/50 between instant release and extended release can help

 

[Luke391]

Right, makes me think about how some fitness influencers 7-8 years ago would ridicule people for saying dont eat past 8 pm or such. Calories are calories and all that were how the saying went then.

But maybe there's a pretty good point in not eating past certain hours given melatonins effect on insulin.

Just read an article about how they connected this to shift workers increase in metabolic disorders / obesity.

But maybe there are 2 potential reasons for waking up mid night on melatonin. I just to think it was just related to cortisol but could be something with insulin and blood sugar aswell then.

exactly lol. The might of "don't eat past 6pm" is actually right. Melatonin makes you acutely insulin resistant, so you partition your food worse and affect your metabolic health negativly

 

[zneekah]

yep. Melatonin acutely causes insulin resistance, but it improves insulin sensitivity during the day. So you should not eat for 3-5 hours before bed when taking it

Wonder if its diminishing returns on this effect? Or if half the thing with megadosing melatonin is that maybe it gives a potent boost to insulin sensitivity long term? Assuming its done correctly with fasting in the window around dosing it.

I feel like if it were possible to use for a very powerful effect on insulin sensitivity it would have been more known though..

Thanks for the tip with xtended release, this is probably way to go even if I like my powders so I can blend and mix myself.

 

[Luke391]

Wonder if its diminishing returns on this effect? Or if half the thing with megadosing melatonin is that maybe it gives a potent boost to insulin sensitivity long term? Assuming its done correctly with fasting in the window around dosing it.

I feel like if it were possible to use for a very powerful effect on insulin sensitivity it would have been more known though..

Thanks for the tip with xtended release, this is probably way to go even if I like my powders so I can blend and mix myself.

it's all speculative but yeah I would think there are diminishing returns on the insulin sensitivity effect. it is mostly used for it's anti-oxidant properties, especially because it's an anti-oxidant in the brain, something not many substances can do.

 

[eery]

Wonder if its diminishing returns on this effect? Or if half the thing with megadosing melatonin is that maybe it gives a potent boost to insulin sensitivity long term? Assuming its done correctly with fasting in the window around dosing it.

I feel like if it were possible to use for a very powerful effect on insulin sensitivity it would have been more known though..

Thanks for the tip with xtended release, this is probably way to go even if I like my powders so I can blend and mix myself.

i think most of the increased insulin sensitivity from melatonin seen over time is indirectly from improved sleep, better circadian rhythm and your body just functioning better the way it should, plus the other positive benefits of melatonin like antioxidant effect, antiinflammatory effect, immune system benefits and so on.

It has a ton of health benefits as long as its timed correctly at the right doses by the looks of it.

It looks like you want to be in somewhat of a fasted state any time your melatonin is peaking due to its impact in insulin and glucose metabolism.

Here is a bunch of reading material on melatonin for anyone interested to dive in to it:

A brief review about melatonin, a pineal hormone - PubMed
Melatonin: Physiological effects in humans - PubMed
Melatonin as a Hormone: New Physiological and Clinical Insights - PubMed
Physiology of the Pineal Gland and Melatonin - Endotext - NCBI Bookshelf

Physiological and pharmacological perspectives of melatonin - PubMed

The pineal gland is a interface between light-dark cycle and shows neuro-endocrine functions. Melatonin is the primary hormone of pineal gland, secreted at night. The night-time melatonin peak regulates the physiological functions at dark. Melatonin has several unique features as it synchronises...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Melatonin as a Hormone: New Physiological and Clinical Insights - PubMed

Melatonin is a ubiquitous molecule present in almost every live being from bacteria to humans. In vertebrates, besides being produced in peripheral tissues and acting as an autocrine and paracrine signal, melatonin is centrally synthetized by a neuroendocrine organ, the pineal gland...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Raylee3500]

been seeing lots of conflicting opinions online. Some people talking about how terrible it is, other talking about how amazing it is and it should be done like Hormone Replacement Therapy.
I'm getting leaner and recently my sleep has gone to shit. Been using blue light blocking glasses and taking magnesium but it's been unhelpfull. I feel restless in the evening and wake up many times torugh the night. I sleep 6hours maximum (more common 5 hours) and then I wake up, still tired and sleepy, but unable to fall back asleep.
I tried 3mg melatonin in the past I didn't feel any effects from it (tho I was sleeping well at the time, I was trying it for anti-aging).
I wanna try 10-20mg of melatonin a night. Do the melatonin receptors actually desensitize or is it bs? Should I cycle the melatonin or just stay on it?
I used to take cold showers in the evening because it helped me sleep but now that has also been ineffective

10-20mg lol actually lol , I do 100mg all the time and typically do 60-80mg everyday, no problems or side effects been doing this for years with 10 other sleeping supplements at a high dosage

 

[eery]

10-20mg lol actually lol , I do 100mg all the time and typically do 60-80mg everyday, no problems or side effects been doing this for years with 10 other sleeping supplements at a high dosage

Have you seen any positives or negatives from this high dosing? be it just anecdotally., biofeedback or numbers on bloodwork for example.

 

[Raylee3500]

Have you seen any positives or negatives from this high dosing? be it just anecdotally., biofeedback or numbers on bloodwork for example.

I just sleep deeper and have absolutely no problem falling asleep because it’s very frustrating to lay in bed wasting time and not be able to sleep when that’s the whole reason I’m in bed, but it doesn’t make me so tired thet I just pass out or anything, no negative side effects at all

 

[Raylee3500]

I just sleep deeper and have absolutely no problem falling asleep because it’s very frustrating to lay in bed wasting time and not be able to sleep when that’s the whole reason I’m in bed, but it doesn’t make me so tired thet I just pass out or anything, no negative side effects at all

Nothing in my bloodwork shows any signs whatsoever of health consequences and I’m terms of biofeedback I don’t wake up groggy or anything and I’m still able to sleep without melatonin so I wouldn’t consider myself dependent on it

 

[Zmitmex]

Already been mentioned but Dave Lee is awesome to listen to on Melatonin.

One thing he talks about (and I’ve noticed from personal experience) is that the micronized really does make a difference. I can take a 5mg micronized and be sleepy and hour or two later, had to take like 30mg of the regular stuff to get a similar effect. (It’s called MicroActive if you’re searching).

I think about it like creatine, definitely helps but you won’t become dependent on it and unless you REALLY need it, it won’t be a ‘game changer’ but for some it will be.