My Blood Pressure and Hematocrit Story

[OldGHGuy]

Hey Meso,

Thought I would share my recent "challenge".

Mid 50's, mostly true TRT (140 Test C) but "Old Man Blast" a few times per year. My regular BP protocol, which I take year round and have for many years (High BP runs in the family) and which usually works fine even during my "blasts" is as follows:

Olmesartan 20 mg (ARB)
Metoprolol 25 mg (BB)

Decided to run a fairly heavy 12 week blast for me with a target date for a 1RM: 250 Test C, 150 Primo, Var kicker and Var finish. Ran this for about 4 weeks and was feeling GREAT but felt like I wasn't getting the strength gains I was looking for so I decided to add 100 Deca (GREAT strength gains for me but the shit is the devil) and planned to drop the Var finish (I know - shitty planning. I also know about adding a long ester late but I was planning to peak right when needed, didn't want to run Deca that long, and had no NPP). I've never had a hematocrit problem and hadn't donated in years. I should have watched it closer running these "high" doses for me, but I didnt.

About 11 days in (when the Deca started kicking in) my BP shot up to 170/110. I tried to double the Olm and Met - no help. No time to test and I had all the hallmarks of high hematocrit. Tried to donate but was turned down due to BP. Two days later, no improvement and desperate, I went to a different donation place and was still "Hot" in their words (Hemoglobin 19, BP 165/104). To my relief, the person whispered "You need to dump, don't you?" Long story short, they took care of me and 24 hours later my blood pressure was 137/92. Still high but much improved. It continued to decline back down to normal levels over the following days (helped by ending the cycle after that mess). I was able to wean back down to my normal BP dose and hopefully avoided any damage but will test soon to find out. Gonna cruise on TRT for a while...

Lessons:
1) No Deca ever again
2) Stick with the plan if its working
3) 500 MG is probably too high for me at my age.
4) From another forum I learned about Cilnidipine (CCB) and may add in a low dose for good measure next cycle
5) I also confirmed that donating can have a very profound effect on BP and can be a tool in the toolbox in these situations.

 

[oldmanwilliams]

I hate those moments.......when things go wrong like this and you can really freak out. You're lucky that guy helped you out.

It's good to know donating can have such a strong response. Did you test your blood afterwards or do you plan too?

 

[The Answ3r]

Hey Meso,

Thought I would share my recent "challenge".

Mid 50's, mostly true TRT (140 Test C) but "Old Man Blast" a few times per year. My regular BP protocol, which I take year round and have for many years (High BP runs in the family) and which usually works fine even during my "blasts" is as follows:

Olmesartan 20 mg (ARB)
Metoprolol 25 mg (BB)

Decided to run a fairly heavy 12 week blast for me with a target date for a 1RM: 250 Test C, 150 Primo, Var kicker and Var finish. Ran this for about 4 weeks and was feeling GREAT but felt like I wasn't getting the strength gains I was looking for so I decided to add 100 Deca (GREAT strength gains for me but the shit is the devil) and planned to drop the Var finish (I know - shitty planning. I also know about adding a long ester late but I was planning to peak right when needed, didn't want to run Deca that long, and had no NPP). I've never had a hematocrit problem and hadn't donated in years. I should have watched it closer running these "high" doses for me, but I didnt.

About 11 days in (when the Deca started kicking in) my BP shot up to 170/110. I tried to double the Olm and Met - no help. No time to test and I had all the hallmarks of high hematocrit. Tried to donate but was turned down due to BP. Two days later, no improvement and desperate, I went to a different donation place and was still "Hot" in their words (Hemoglobin 19, BP 165/104). To my relief, the person whispered "You need to dump, don't you?" Long story short, they took care of me and 24 hours later my blood pressure was 137/92. Still high but much improved. It continued to decline back down to normal levels over the following days (helped by ending the cycle after that mess). I was able to wean back down to my normal BP dose and hopefully avoided any damage but will test soon to find out. Gonna cruise on TRT for a while...

Lessons:
1) No Deca ever again
2) Stick with the plan if its working
3) 500 MG is probably too high for me at my age.
4) From another forum I learned about Cilnidipine (CCB) and may add in a low dose for good measure next cycle
5) I also confirmed that donating can have a very profound effect on BP and can be a tool in the toolbox in these situations.

Damn, that was a ride - glad you made it out the other side in one piece. Part of me wants to joke that you might just be a hyper-responder to Deca, but with BP at 170/110, that ain’t something to laugh about too hard. Respect for sharing all the details - this kind of transparency helps a lot of us avoid learning the hard way.

I’m going through something similar right now - week 3 into my cycle (Test, EQ, Mast), and boom, BP and heart rate started creeping up like they’ve got a mind of their own. Got Telmisartan and Cilnidipine on standby just in case things get spicy.

Moral of the story: even the most “mild” compounds can gang up on you when you least expect it. Time to treat our blood pressure with the same respect we give our test vials.

 

[explodingHeart]

hemoglobin tester/strips and 18 gauge needle to drain it yourself if it gets too high

yes it's easy,
no you won't pass out,
yes it flows out quickly if you get the right arm vain,
yes the strips are accurate

 

[OldGHGuy]

I hate those moments.......when things go wrong like this and you can really freak out. You're lucky that guy helped you out.

It's good to know donating can have such a strong response. Did you test your blood afterwards or do you plan too?

Still in "recovery" mode but plan to test bloods in the next few weeks, including Cystatin C for kidneys

 

[OldGHGuy]

hemoglobin tester/strips and 18 gauge needle to drain it yourself if it gets too high

yes it's easy,
no you won't pass out,
yes it flows out quickly if you get the right arm vain,
yes the strips are accurate

Believe me, that was next had that person not come thru for me. I wasnt looking forward to it, though, as I have NO experience with veins

 

[oldmanwilliams]

hemoglobin tester/strips and 18 gauge needle to drain it yourself if it gets too high

yes it's easy,
no you won't pass out,
yes it flows out quickly if you get the right arm vain,
yes the strips are accurate

Where do you drain it? How much should you let out?

 

[romo]

hemoglobin tester/strips and 18 gauge needle to drain it yourself if it gets too high

yes it's easy,
no you won't pass out,
yes it flows out quickly if you get the right arm vain,
yes the strips are accurate

This is how have done it for years, myself , in the privacy of my own home.

 

[romo]

Where do you drain it? How much should you let out?

I lean over with a large bowl on the floor while sitting in a chair. Have the bowl marked at 450 MLS,, one pint. Fill it to that line. Pull the plunger out of a 3ml syringe and install 18g. Use the same veins as the blood bank would,,the large ones closes to the outside of the arm down at the lower bicep. Go in at a 15-degree angle , have the hole of the needle facing upward so you can see exactly where you are. Be hydrated it helps with blood flow. Go to youtube and look over some Phelbotmy courses. It does take some practice.

 

[DECLAN]

Can you just ask your doc for a phlebotomist appointment, they know you can’t donate but will need to dump blood regardless.

Hats off to people who drain themselves. However, it’s risky too unless you have someone with you. I think someone posted about passed out accidentally while draining themselves and had to go to the ER. I can’t remember where it was posted, maybe in ProMuscle or OLM.

 

[romo]

Can you just ask your doc for a phlebotomist appointment, they know you can’t donate but will need to dump blood regardless.

Hats off to people who drain themselves. However, it’s risky too unless you have someone with you. I think someone posted about passed out accidentally while draining themselves and had to go to the ER. I can’t remember where it was posted, maybe in ProMuscle or OLM.

True you pass out your in big trouble. Yes most doctors would write a therapeutic blood draw.

 

[xrayphoton13]

Get yourself some bulk magnesium glycinate(nutricost). This helped me those times when I needed to get BP down quickly. It's a CCB(calcium channel blocker) like cilnidipine or amlodipine. I would take 600mg mag glycinate 3x-4x a day until I got BP down through other means. ARB's take a week or two to see full BP changes. Nebivolol is a beta blocker that lowers heart rate and BP as well. I have amlodipine now instead of cilnidipine since it's cheaper and I don't get the sides like ankle swelling. Deca and dbol are notorious for raising bp. Daily HIIT cardio is another great tool in the toolbox to get bp down

 

[explodingHeart]

Get yourself some bulk magnesium glycinate(nutricost). This helped me those times when I needed to get BP down quickly. It's a CCB(calcium channel blocker) like cilnidipine or amlodipine. I would take 600mg mag glycinate 3x-4x a day until I got BP down through other means. ARB's take a week or two to see full BP changes. Nebivolol is a beta blocker that lowers heart rate and BP as well. I have amlodipine now instead of cilnidipine since it's cheaper and I don't get the sides like ankle swelling. Deca and dbol are notorious for raising bp. Daily HIIT cardio is another great tool in the toolbox to get bp down

don't you mean Cilnidipine? that's the newer one

and props to ghoul for letting us know about it and where to get it cheaply

@Millard plz don't keep him banned long. his BP medication advice was a god send

 

[explodingHeart]

True you pass out your in big trouble. Yes most doctors would write a therapeutic blood draw.

Highly unlikely you will pass out

if you disturb that 18g needle, even move around too much it will just clot up rather quickly and blood flow stops

you'd need a vacuum setup to keep draining so much you'd pass out

When I used to do it, if my HCT was > 50, I could drain a pint and feel much better after

(Yes I understand some think HCT > 50 is fine, but at the end of the day, thicker blood = higher bp and more damage to your arteries)

 

[romo]

Highly unlikely you will pass out

if you disturb that 18g needle, even move around too much it will just clot up rather quickly and blood flow stops

you'd need a vacuum setup to keep draining so much you'd pass out

When I used to do it, if my HCT was > 50, I could drain a pint and feel much better after

(Yes I understand some think HCT > 50 is fine, but at the end of the day, thicker blood = higher bp and more damage to your arteries)

Exactly! Been doing this for about the past 7 years never passed out. I have never really passed out over anything in my life lol. Your right, you must stay very still when doing this or the blood flow stops. I do feel much better draining a pint. About 3 times a year thats all.

 

[explodingHeart]

Exactly! Been doing this for about the past 7 years never passed out. I have never really passed out over anything in my life lol. Your right, you must stay very still when doing this or the blood flow stops. I do feel much better draining a pint. About 3 times a year thats all.

Yup. You get one shot at getting the 18g needle in the arm vein correctly and it will flow well if you do. But as soon as you move it around, flow stops. Gotta find a new vein.

 

[romo]

They been doing it for centuries lol, Blood letting. You just have to be careful with your ferritin stores and iron levels.

 

[romo]

Yup. You get one shot at getting the 18g needle in the arm vein correctly and it will flow well if you do. But as soon as you move it around, flow stops. Gotta find a new vein.

I can tell you have done this before.

 

[xrayphoton13]

don't you mean Cilnidipine? that's the newer one

and props to ghoul for letting us know about it and where to get it cheaply

@Millard plz don't keep him banned long. his BP medication advice was a god send

Yes, cilnidipine is newer but I use Amlodipine instead whenever I do need it because it's a whole lot cheaper and I get no side effects from it. High dose magnesium works great too, just avoid mag ox or you'll have diarrhea(it works great if your constipated from a glp-1 like tirzepatide though)

 

[explodingHeart]

Yes, cilnidipine is newer but I use Amlodipine instead whenever I do need it because it's a whole lot cheaper and I get no side effects from it. High dose magnesium works great too, just avoid mag ox or you'll have diarrhea

I've always had bad insomnia. I took 3g+ mag bigylcyiante and couldn't stay awake. I swear I would have taken meth if offered to me.

ChatGPT says element mag RDA is 300mg which is about 3-4 gylcinate.