New here, introducing myself.

[Tmisatix]

Hey guys. I just joined this website and this is my introduction post. This thread is being made in order to allow everyone to get to know me and create a better understanding of who I am, my beliefs, goals, etc.

- I just turned 20
- Attending college and working on getting my pt certificate
- Been training naturally since age 15. Trained seriously, actually focusing on proper frequency, volume intensity, etc, since around 18. Before I wasn't as consistent, lacked tons of volume, on a bro split and didn't achieve enough intensity.
- Gained around 35-40 pounds in those years, due to some height too.
- I just had my testosterone tested this year and it was a 112! That is the equivalent of an 75 year old man. The normal range for my age should be over 800.
- The low t was due to low LH and FSH levels
- I also was borderline low within my thyroid ranges, both T3, T4 and had a small deficiency in igf-1 levels.
- The endocrinologist didn't treat me and never made an attempt to really do anything. Sent me to the dietitian which, unfortunately, did not help much either.

Currently, I am looking to self medicate. The low testosterone has affected me severely. Low libido, anxiety, panic attacks, depression, aches and pain, lack of recovery, difficulty concentrating/focusing, apprehension and water retention, I.E., waking up dry, drinking a glass of water and bloating/puffing up for the rest of the day.

- Profile pic is current

Training regimen: Push/Legs/Pull/Push/Legs/Pull/ Rest/ Repeat

-I can go into my rep scheme, sets, intensity, exercise selection. Just let me know and I can post. This has been the only program which delivered the most dramatic results.

My cycle planned is to start with testosterone cyp 350mg a week, masteron at 200mg a week, and proviron 50 a day.

Reason?
Proviron has been shown to help depression and anxiety.
Proviron has been shown to help increase LH/FSH
Libido

Testosterone
Libido
Strength
Muscle Gain

Masterone
Well being
Water retention regulation
Estrogen lowering effects
Can free bound testosterone

I will add further compounds as I am more experienced, but I need to be responsible for cycle longevity and my anxiety levels.

Any questions, concerns, greetings, anything, just post below. Happy to be a part of this community


-

 

[noah_k]

Running a cycle is not in any way shape or form self-medicating hypogonadism. Not to mention such a cycle is not at all suitable for a 20yo hypogonadal male's first run. Why did your endo not prescribe therapeutic doses? You should consider finding a new doctor and reading a hell of a lot more on anabolics before considering self-medication. This site and others have plenty of info, and you'll find the men's health section particularly relevant

How you came to this conclusion of running mast/test/proviron in your situation by reading the pros and then simply adding them together is not a sound or logical approach at all. And that's assuming your drugs would even be properly dosed and not counterfeit (mast especially)!

Along with the threads and steroid profiles here on Meso, I'd recommend http://www.amazon.com/Anabolics-E-Book-Edition-William-Llewellyn-ebook/dp/B005II5Z7M as a solid reference for different compounds

 

[Tmisatix]

Running a cycle is not in any way shape or form self-medicating hypogonadism. Not to mention such a cycle is not at all suitable for a 20yo hypogonadal male's first run. Why did your endo not prescribe therapeutic doses? You should consider finding a new doctor and reading a hell of a lot more on anabolics before considering self-medication. This site and others have plenty of info, and you'll find the men's health section particularly relevant

How you came to this conclusion of running mast/test/proviron in your situation by reading the pros and then simply adding them together is not a sound or logical approach at all. And that's assuming your drugs would even be properly dosed and not counterfeit (mast especially)!

Along with the threads and steroid profiles here on Meso, I'd recommend http://www.amazon.com/Anabolics-E-Book-Edition-William-Llewellyn-ebook/dp/B005II5Z7M as a solid reference for different compounds

Thank you. I actually was interested in mast and proviron due to their low side effects, libido increase and sense of well being.

 

[Tmisatix]

I suffer anxiety and want to start light before adding. In the process of looking for new doctors actually, nothing is certain.

 

[noah_k]

Right I understand you see these drugs and it sounds like magic. But understand that a cycle is temporary (weeks) and does not treat underlying chronic disorders (in fact it just exacerbates said problems when you alternate between blasting / cruising or on cycle versus off). Many, many anabolics increase libido on cycle, adding in proviron is not a solution to ED however. You need to address your low testosterone problem first and foremost and that means taking a *therapeutic* dose of testosterone. That is, a TRT dose of test that will be taken continually, not as a cycle. It aims to bring your testerone levels to normal ranges indefinitely, NOT temporarily elevate them to supernatural levels (which will only depress natural levels even further!)

With a cycle, you take shorterm supernatural doses of quantities to exceed well and above normal testosterone levels along with other drugs, but at the cost of side effects least among them including HPTA suppression and an overall decrease of natural testosterone production. Which in healthy populations could result in hypogonadism, but you're already there.

To put it short, for a new, healthy user seeking to push beyond what his normal potential is, anabolic steroids as part of a cycle (possibly including additional compounds beyond testosterone) can achieve that but not without side effect and risk. In that situation, it's often recommended that they stick to basic cycles of only testosterone as-is, since that will be more than enough to get results with minimal side effects.

However, you're not in a position to do a cycle - not testosterone only and certainly not test/mast/proviron. You are primarily trying to treat a medical condition, NOT achieve vanity and strength beyond your natural limits. At your weight a cycle shouldn't even be considered, health situation aside.

What you want is a therapeutic dose of testosterone, which is what we call TRT. It's not cycling. It would be much, much easier to do this with the assistance of a cooperative doctor, especially at your age before you do even more damage. Or end up with improperly dosed drugs. Self-medicate as a last resort. Worry about cycling and such after you've addressed your issue. Realize that normal testosteron levels as part of TRT will alleviate a hell of a lot of the side effects you are experiencing.

Please read a hell of a lot more and get a general understanding before you make things worse!

 

[Boilermech]

Welcome to Meso brother
I have nothing to add to this. Looks like Noah has already given you some great info. [emoji106]

 

[Tmisatix]

Right I understand you see these drugs and it sounds like magic. But understand that a cycle is temporary (weeks) and does not treat underlying chronic disorders (in fact it just exacerbates said problems when you alternate between blasting / cruising or on cycle versus off). Many, many anabolics increase libido on cycle, adding in proviron is not a solution to ED however. You need to address your low testosterone problem first and foremost and that means taking a *therapeutic* dose of testosterone. That is, a TRT dose of test that will be taken continually, not as a cycle. It aims to bring your testerone levels to normal ranges indefinitely, NOT temporarily elevate them to supernatural levels (which will only depress natural levels even further!)

With a cycle, you take shorterm supernatural doses of quantities to exceed well and above normal testosterone levels along with other drugs, but at the cost of side effects least among them including HPTA suppression and an overall decrease of natural testosterone production. Which in healthy populations could result in hypogonadism, but you're already there.

To put it short, for a new, healthy user seeking to push beyond what his normal potential is, anabolic steroids as part of a cycle (possibly including additional compounds beyond testosterone) can achieve that but not without side effect and risk. In that situation, it's often recommended that they stick to basic cycles of only testosterone as-is, since that will be more than enough to get results with minimal side effects.

However, you're not in a position to do a cycle - not testosterone only and certainly not test/mast/proviron. You are primarily trying to treat a medical condition, NOT achieve vanity and strength beyond your natural limits. At your weight a cycle shouldn't even be considered, health situation aside.

What you want is a therapeutic dose of testosterone, which is what we call TRT. It's not cycling. It would be much, much easier to do this with the assistance of a cooperative doctor, especially at your age before you do even more damage. Or end up with improperly dosed drugs. Self-medicate as a last resort. Worry about cycling and such after you've addressed your issue. Realize that normal testosteron levels as part of TRT will alleviate a hell of a lot of the side effects you are experiencing.

Please read a hell of a lot more and get a general understanding before you make things worse!

I had an mri and no pituitary issues. Do you have any ideas of what could be wrong?
Getting too lean as a natural? Possible deficiency?

Never had ANY intention of getting off test. Not a believer in pct really, but blast/cruise. I would basically use test first, add mast, maybe proviron, stop mast and cruise. Honestly was just in for the estrogen control and well being part of masteron, but you are making sense.

I think TRT would be the best option. The doctors most like don't want me on it because I will require it for life, but I am not sure if my levels will ever balance out again. Had a friend tell me he believes it is delayed puberty due to some changes such as height, hair, etc, which all dramatically hit at around 18. Not huge changes, but some.

And I have been doing research on this topic. TRT is the best choice, but very hard to attain. Wouldn't order from some random ugl either. This is gear and needs to be taken responsibly. Like I said, nothing is certain though. I've been contemplating gear for a couple of years and studying, yet I always choose to wait. Being responsible and having enough mental maturity is required.

Thanks bro . Sorry if I came off as a mark upon my first couple post. Was not my intentions at all! I try to be as kind and understanding as possible. Hate a lot of conflict.

 

[Tmisatix]

Welcome to Meso brother
I have nothing to add to this. Looks like Noah has already given you some great info. [emoji106]

Thanks you friend

 

[noah_k]

@Tmisatix that's okay brother I just wasn't particularly fond of your implications in the other post! But we're adults and we're free to disagree on shit.

As for what caused your hypogonadism... who knows. It's likely genetic. It could have been exaggerated by environment, but drastic sub 10% dieting won't depress testosterone permanently to such a degree. But while lifestyle changes might be a factor, what matters most is treatment!

There are protocols you can attempt to try and restore endogenous testosterone levels before commiting to a lifetime of TRT. I know a lot has been written here (again both on the site and the forums, two separate parts). And I think Dr. Scally (a valued member here) has PCT programs laid out that could be adapted to someone simply attempting a restart, but definitely your best bet is to find a cooperative endo in your area, however long that takes.

Unfortunately if you decide to self-medicate, you're at the mercy of UGLs! There is a pharmacy reseller here that sells non-injectable forms of testosterone such as androgel and orals but they are (by his own admission) cost prohibitive. Other black markets selling vials of Watson or other pharm grade injectables are frequently found to be counterfitters with convincing labels.

But I highly recommend dropping the idea of a cycle or blast for now until you're testosterone has hit a normal level for some time, so you can asses where you stand in terms of health and mental well being at that point -- before taking on something as side effect prone as a cycle. And when you do cycle, it's wise advice to start with the basics, 500mg / week of testosterone, give or take. Small steps, small sides. Great returns.

You would ideally just use an anti-estrogen to keep your estrogen levels in check, not yet another compound like mast which has its own effects. Not to mention, mast is often counterfeitted (either bunk or just relabelled test) so that's just another needless concern. Though you could read more of its use here https://thinksteroids.com/articles/masteron-anti-estrogen/

 

[Ozzy619]

Hey guys. I just joined this website and this is my introduction post. This thread is being made in order to allow everyone to get to know me and create a better understanding of who I am, my beliefs, goals, etc.

- I just turned 20
- Attending college and working on getting my pt certificate
- Been training naturally since age 15. Trained seriously, actually focusing on proper frequency, volume intensity, etc, since around 18. Before I wasn't as consistent, lacked tons of volume, on a bro split and didn't achieve enough intensity.
- Gained around 35-40 pounds in those years, due to some height too.
- I just had my testosterone tested this year and it was a 112! That is the equivalent of an 75 year old man. The normal range for my age should be over 800.
- The low t was due to low LH and FSH levels
- I also was borderline low within my thyroid ranges, both T3, T4 and had a small deficiency in igf-1 levels.
- The endocrinologist didn't treat me and never made an attempt to really do anything. Sent me to the dietitian which, unfortunately, did not help much either.

Currently, I am looking to self medicate. The low testosterone has affected me severely. Low libido, anxiety, panic attacks, depression, aches and pain, lack of recovery, difficulty concentrating/focusing, apprehension and water retention, I.E., waking up dry, drinking a glass of water and bloating/puffing up for the rest of the day.

- Profile pic is current

Training regimen: Push/Legs/Pull/Push/Legs/Pull/ Rest/ Repeat

-I can go into my rep scheme, sets, intensity, exercise selection. Just let me know and I can post. This has been the only program which delivered the most dramatic results.

My cycle planned is to start with testosterone cyp 350mg a week, masteron at 200mg a week, and proviron 50 a day.

Reason?
Proviron has been shown to help depression and anxiety.
Proviron has been shown to help increase LH/FSH
Libido

Testosterone
Libido
Strength
Muscle Gain

Masterone
Well being
Water retention regulation
Estrogen lowering effects
Can free bound testosterone

I will add further compounds as I am more experienced, but I need to be responsible for cycle longevity and my anxiety levels.

Any questions, concerns, greetings, anything, just post below. Happy to be a part of this community


-

Check out Dr. Scally's Power Pct protocol. We recently had a member that had luck restarting following this protocol after many failed attempts. Noah is right about a cycle being a temporary solution and in all honesty your depression and anxiety will most likely get worse once you come off. At your age you should try every avenue before going the trt route.

 

[Tmisatix]

@Tmisatix that's okay brother I just wasn't particularly fond of your implications in the other post! But we're adults and we're free to disagree on shit.

As for what caused your hypogonadism... who knows. It's likely genetic. It could have been exaggerated by environment, but drastic sub 10% dieting won't depress testosterone permanently to such a degree. But while lifestyle changes might be a factor, what matters most is treatment!

There are protocols you can attempt to try and restore endogenous testosterone levels before commiting to a lifetime of TRT. I know a lot has been written here (again both on the site and the forums, two separate parts). And I think Dr. Scally (a valued member here) has PCT programs laid out that could be adapted to someone simply attempting a restart, but definitely your best bet is to find a cooperative endo in your area, however long that takes.

Unfortunately if you decide to self-medicate, you're at the mercy of UGLs! There is a pharmacy reseller here that sells non-injectable forms of testosterone such as androgel and orals but they are (by his own admission) cost prohibitive. Other black markets selling vials of Watson or other pharm grade injectables are frequently found to be counterfitters with convincing labels.

But I highly recommend dropping the idea of a cycle or blast for now until you're testosterone has hit a normal level for some time, so you can asses where you stand in terms of health and mental well being at that point -- before taking on something as side effect prone as a cycle. And when you do cycle, it's wise advice to start with the basics, 500mg / week of testosterone, give or take. Small steps, small sides. Great returns.

You would ideally just use an anti-estrogen to keep your estrogen levels in check, not yet another compound like mast which has its own effects. Not to mention, mast is often counterfeitted (either bunk or just relabelled test) so that's just another needless concern. Though you could read more of its use here https://thinksteroids.com/articles/masteron-anti-estrogen/

Everything you posted was completely true. I shouldn't be jumping into everything so abruptly. My condition needs to be treat professionally right now!

I'll check out the Dr.Scally protocol.

Thank you so much

I'm not 100% sure, but maybe my very low cholesterol levels have something to do? I saw a naturopath before seeing the endo. She was concerned about my cholesterol and said I should attempt to bring my levels up. Ldl was low hdl was very high.

 

[Tmisatix]

Check out Dr. Scally's Power Pct protocol. We recently had a member that had luck restarting following this protocol after many failed attempts. Noah is right about a cycle being a temporary solution and in all honesty your depression and anxiety will most likely get worse once you come off. At your age you should try every avenue before going the trt route.

Okay, I'll definitely be looking into this. And yes, I want to try most before jumping the gun.

I've actually been supplementing vitamin d, taurine, b12 and calcium which seem to be helping some of my symtpoms. Taurine can help lh levels and vit d can help convert cholesterol into sex hormones.