Nothing will get my estrogen down

[Dopamineloveaffair]

Ok... I'm currently taking 2.5mg Letrozole a day, and feel like I'm still experiencing high estrogen symptoms. Crazy? Everything I've read says it's impossible, and my estradiol levels should be close to 0.

Before HRT:

E2 217 (0-206) pmol/L
Free testosterone 56 (31-94) pg/ml
DHEAS 21.2 (3.3-14.0) mcg/dl
Prolactin 8 (2-18)

I am 30, 230 lbs, 6'3, around 8% bf. I had gyno as a teenager. Never cycled. Had no bloating, no ED, low libido, fatigue, no bruising, and slight swollen prostate. I have had long standing depression and chronic fatigue.

My current protocol, 28mg testosterone enanthate EOD, and 100IU HCG ED, along with 2.5mg Letrozole ED. I was originally on 250IU HCG EOD but switched to ED to help lower estradiol levels. This is my 4th week.

Almost immediately I began experiencing high estrogen symptoms.

High estrogen symptoms I am experiencing: Erectile dysfunction, lowered libido, bloating, strong fatigue, sore wrists, bruising, and very swollen prostate.

I originally started with 6.25mg Aromasin ED, progressing to 25mg ED after the first week. Still experiencing high estrogen symptoms.

I decided Aromasin wasn't strong enough so I ordered Arimidex and Letrozole. Started 1mg Arimidex ED after 2 weeks. Still experiencing high estrogen symptoms.

Began 2.5mg Letrozole ED in to 3rd week. Been taking for a week, and have more mild symptoms but still there. Primarly a little BPH, sore wrists, some bloat, and mild fatigue. Symptoms are much better on Letrozole. I am getting morning wood.

I know what everyone's thinking, that I've probably overshot and am experiencing low estrogen symptoms, or that my AI's are bunk. The AI's are from C1. Not sure if I can say the real name. Most people probably know who I am talking about.

I understand the normal dosage is 0.5 - 2mg Arimidex a week, and Letrozole is generally never used for HRT due to it being way too strong. I have no lab results to confirm anything which makes this difficult. The HCG is prescribed. The AI's and testosterone are my doing.

The long and the short of it. Is this possible? Have you heard of anyone else who may be a poor responder to AI's? I am assuming I am a very high aromatiser.

My doctor ran some more blood work prior to me starting. I will not have those results until next month.

Any ideas?

 

[cjones]

Have you tried any herbal suppliments like Avena Sativa? I think Phil will chip in here for his experience with AI's

Are your adrenals and thyroid ok? because E2 competes with thyroid for cell receptor cites and could be outcompeting your testosterone that could maybe explain this

 

[billythebaxter]

it might be worth trying a low fat vegetarian diet for a period of 3 months.....this can definately bring down estrogen...google it, there have been studies in japan and the USA.

 

[eeso]

Try aromasin

 

[No1Uknow]

That does of letro should be knocking down to nothing.

 

[hardasnails1973]

That does of letro should be knocking down to nothing.

Where are you getting the letzerol from?
some time hcg can incrrease e2 five fold !! may be dropping hcg and bumping up the test might over compensate. Some people can not tolerate the hcg ..Check estrones down stream

 

[user785]

I have to agree with HAN on the HCG - I have been steady on 100mg/week test and 250IU 2x/week HCG (using generic brand) and been fine on 1/2mg Adex E3D. Last week I used a new brand of HCG (Pregnyl) and my E2 symptoms came back with a vengance - supper puffy face and no morning wood. I upped my adex to 1/2mg ED and it is slowly subsiding - not fast enough for me though.

 

[plymouth city]

LOL are you serious?

This is ridiculous, you trying to play Doctor.

How do you know your E2 is still high? It may have been high before, but I not anymore. You do realize that all those symptoms your having are typical of having LOW E2, especially sore wrists(Dead giveaway to zero estrogen)

You blew right by the ideal E2 zone in probably a matter of a day.

Who is prescribing you 2.5mg per day of Letro? Oh wait, I reread the post - it was you "I decided Aromasin wasn't strong enough so I ordered Arimidex and Letrozole. Started 1mg Arimidex ED after 2 weeks. Still experiencing high estrogen symptoms."

This post is a good warning and example of why its never a good idea to self treat

 

[pmgamer18]

Stop the meds to lower your e2 I feel you over shot and are way to low. I did this many times and you feel like your to high. Best you get this tested and doing shots every other day you stacking the half life better to do every 3 days. I tried doing HCG 100mgs everyday and it just drove up my E2 levels even higher. Try doing your shots every 3 days and the HCG the 2 days each in between. I do 70mgs of Depo T every 3 days and 400 IU's of HCG the 2 days each in between. My Total T is just over 700 and my Free T is top of the range. My SHBG is 20 so I keep my E2 at 15 pg/ml. I take .5 mgs of Arimidex every otherday when I was doing shot once a week and HCG 2 times a week I need 1mg of Arimidex everyday.

On my last test I felt my E2 was to high my test came back at 8 so you see you can't tell.

Ok... I'm currently taking 2.5mg Letrozole a day, and feel like I'm still experiencing high estrogen symptoms. Crazy? Everything I've read says it's impossible, and my estradiol levels should be close to 0.

Before HRT:

E2 217 (0-206) pmol/L
Free testosterone 56 (31-94) pg/ml
DHEAS 21.2 (3.3-14.0) mcg/dl
Prolactin 8 (2-18)

I am 30, 230 lbs, 6'3, around 8% bf. I had gyno as a teenager. Never cycled. Had no bloating, no ED, low libido, fatigue, no bruising, and slight swollen prostate. I have had long standing depression and chronic fatigue.

My current protocol, 28mg testosterone enanthate EOD, and 100IU HCG ED, along with 2.5mg Letrozole ED. I was originally on 250IU HCG EOD but switched to ED to help lower estradiol levels. This is my 4th week.

Almost immediately I began experiencing high estrogen symptoms.

High estrogen symptoms I am experiencing: Erectile dysfunction, lowered libido, bloating, strong fatigue, sore wrists, bruising, and very swollen prostate.

I originally started with 6.25mg Aromasin ED, progressing to 25mg ED after the first week. Still experiencing high estrogen symptoms.

I decided Aromasin wasn't strong enough so I ordered Arimidex and Letrozole. Started 1mg Arimidex ED after 2 weeks. Still experiencing high estrogen symptoms.

Began 2.5mg Letrozole ED in to 3rd week. Been taking for a week, and have more mild symptoms but still there. Primarly a little BPH, sore wrists, some bloat, and mild fatigue. Symptoms are much better on Letrozole. I am getting morning wood.

I know what everyone's thinking, that I've probably overshot and am experiencing low estrogen symptoms, or that my AI's are bunk. The AI's are from C1. Not sure if I can say the real name. Most people probably know who I am talking about.

I understand the normal dosage is 0.5 - 2mg Arimidex a week, and Letrozole is generally never used for HRT due to it being way too strong. I have no lab results to confirm anything which makes this difficult. The HCG is prescribed. The AI's and testosterone are my doing.

The long and the short of it. Is this possible? Have you heard of anyone else who may be a poor responder to AI's? I am assuming I am a very high aromatiser.

My doctor ran some more blood work prior to me starting. I will not have those results until next month.

Any ideas?

 

[hardasnails1973]

Beleve it or not I have been using no anti estrogen and just DIm at 400 mgs a day with 800 mgs sam-e and 250 mgs reservatrol 100% to keep my e2 at 28, but my shbg is climing making e2 unusable . This time I am going to test the peak on day 2 after injection to see where my e2 really is.. I need to keep HCG fresh so I can get a true accurate reading every time I take the test its coming to the 30 day limit so i think it loses its affect big time causing radical drop in e2

current regime
55 mgs test every 3rd day
125 hcg day inbetween shots
dhea 12.5 mgs subligual
20 mgs cortef
1 grain arour
25 mcg of t-3
50 -60 mgs zinc a day
4 mgs copper
800 mgs magnesium
10000 ius vitamin D

e control
400 mgs DIM
50 mgs iodoral
250 mgs of reservatrol 100%
1/2 tsp fish oil a day
800 mgs samme- (undermethyation of the livre) due to e2 imbalances

2 weeks before next blood test going to drop 12.5 mgs dhea and going to go to i pump deramcrine per plymouth city suggestion

Should i get blood test now or wait 2 weeks after starting dermacrine?
I took shot today and tomorrow 125 ius hcg then get test on next morning

 

[Dopamineloveaffair]

My thyroid is ok. TSH is around 1, and T3 is in upper range.

My Letrozole is from Chem One.

I know this sounds stupid, and yes I am playing doctor like most people on this board. We don't all have the luxury of having informed doctors. I am fully aware of how ridiculous 2.5mg of Letrozole a day is.

Sore wrists or carpal tunnel is a tell tale sign of high estrogen. I understand low estrogen can cause sore joints in general.

From experience, when I would increase my DHEA supplementation, the more I supplemented the worse my wrists hurt. Up to 200mg and my wrist pain would be unbearable. 50mg was an ideal dosage. When I started TRT I had to stop the DHEA due to the symptoms getting worse. As most people know DHEA supplementation can increase estradiol levels.

DHEA supplementation also caused me to bruise(which I am not prone to regularly), have slight bloat, and have prostate problems. It most likely is what cause my hi DHEA and Estradiol levels on my initial blood work.

A question... if my estradiol levels should be rock bottom, how come I'm still getting morning wood? Can you still get bloated with low estrogen, as well as getting prostate hypertrophy?

From what I've read morning wood means your estradiol levels are in close range. And bloat usually happens with high estradiol as opposed to low, which is usually the tell tale sign.

Some extra information...

A couple months ago, I took a shot of 100mg testosterone enanthate, to help with some glucocorticoid side effects from a nasal spray for allergies. My muscles were seizing up, and it was exacerbating my depression and fatigue. By the next day after my shot my ED, prostate, and bloat had gotten quite bad, and persisted until the next week until it had gotten out of my system. No AI was used. The shot did help with my muscle spasms though.

Last summer I had tried experimenting with test shots for HRT purposes with no AI. Depression, fatigue, prostate, and ED had set in within days. I felt so much worse I had to stop. Due to all this information it makes me think I am very hypersensitive to estradiol changes.

I think this is a good sign to stop what I am doing. 2.5mg of Letrozole can not be safe.

 

[Dopamineloveaffair]

Just to clarify. I feel better on the Letrozole than Arimidex, and worst on Aromasin, while on TRT. Most of the high estrogen sides are gone, and are just slightly lingering. Fatigue is mild, no to very little ED, only a little bloat, less sore wrists and only slightly swollen prostate. I could barely pee when I first started TRT with the lower dosage Aromasin.

Prior to TRT and AI's I had next to none of these side effects. Just fatigue and depression, and some mild prostate problems which I think were from the lower dosage DHEA.

If I was overkilling my estrogen wouldn't Letrozole make me feel worse then, rather than better?

 

[pmgamer18]

I am hypersensitive to estradiol changes and this is why we need to test it don't do any changes and test also keep a log from day to day how you feel. My carpal tunnel is from low E2 this is when I get this. Bloat is from Testosterone I don't think to many men get Bloated for E2.
estrongen is what bloats women.

My thyroid is ok. TSH is around 1, and T3 is in upper range.

My Letrozole is from Chem One.

I know this sounds stupid, and yes I am playing doctor like most people on this board. We don't all have the luxury of having informed doctors. I am fully aware of how ridiculous 2.5mg of Letrozole a day is.

Sore wrists or carpal tunnel is a tell tale sign of high estrogen. I understand low estrogen can cause sore joints in general.

From experience, when I would increase my DHEA supplementation, the more I supplemented the worse my wrists hurt. Up to 200mg and my wrist pain would be unbearable. 50mg was an ideal dosage. When I started TRT I had to stop the DHEA due to the symptoms getting worse. As most people know DHEA supplementation can increase estradiol levels.

DHEA supplementation also caused me to bruise(which I am not prone to regularly), have slight bloat, and have prostate problems. It most likely is what cause my hi DHEA and Estradiol levels on my initial blood work.

A question... if my estradiol levels should be rock bottom, how come I'm still getting morning wood? Can you still get bloated with low estrogen, as well as getting prostate hypertrophy?

From what I've read morning wood means your estradiol levels are in close range. And bloat usually happens with high estradiol as opposed to low, which is usually the tell tale sign.

Some extra information...

A couple months ago, I took a shot of 100mg testosterone enanthate, to help with some glucocorticoid side effects from a nasal spray for allergies. My muscles were seizing up, and it was exacerbating my depression and fatigue. By the next day after my shot my ED, prostate, and bloat had gotten quite bad, and persisted until the next week until it had gotten out of my system. No AI was used. The shot did help with my muscle spasms though.

Last summer I had tried experimenting with test shots for HRT purposes with no AI. Depression, fatigue, prostate, and ED had set in within days. I felt so much worse I had to stop. Due to all this information it makes me think I am very hypersensitive to estradiol changes.

I think this is a good sign to stop what I am doing. 2.5mg of Letrozole can not be safe.