ok: got gyno a few years ago, mild, little bumps. i usually take nov. 20mg per day when cycleing to control it. not working this time. i am taking 60-80 mg's per day. taking 600mg deca, 250mg sust eod. in week 7 of my 20 wk cycle. wondering if i should switch the deca with some eq?? first time this has happened can anyone give some ideas..thanks..also is it ok to take 60mg's of nolva while cycleing? or is that over kill..
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
OUCH! gyno acting up..couple questions
- Thread starter dodah
- Start date
lancea9847
New Member
i avoid deca for that sole purpose.. switch to eq bro! worked for me
LuvMuhRoids
New Member
It's probably the deca.
Deca gyno is caused by progesterone - not estrogen - and airmidex or proviron wont help (nor will liquidex of tamoxifen for that matter)
RU-486 as well as certain hormone therapies that are used for treating breast cancer in women and post hysterectomies are the only "cures" - winny will help prevent it - run winny at 50mg/day for 4wks during or just after your deca and you will be fine -
Also 60mg of nolva is way to high. You need estrogen. Estrogen helps balance out the test and mass gains. I suggest only 10mg nolva daily to keep estrogen induced gyno in check.
Deca gyno is caused by progesterone - not estrogen - and airmidex or proviron wont help (nor will liquidex of tamoxifen for that matter)
RU-486 as well as certain hormone therapies that are used for treating breast cancer in women and post hysterectomies are the only "cures" - winny will help prevent it - run winny at 50mg/day for 4wks during or just after your deca and you will be fine -
Also 60mg of nolva is way to high. You need estrogen. Estrogen helps balance out the test and mass gains. I suggest only 10mg nolva daily to keep estrogen induced gyno in check.
lancea9847 said:
Tamoxifen inhibits prolactin signal transduction in ER - NOG-8 mammary epithelial cells.
Das R, Vonderhaar BK.
Laboratory of Tumor Immunology and Biology, National Cancer Institute, Bethesda, MD 20892-1402, USA.barbarav@helix.nih.gov
Tamoxifen (TAM), an antiestrogen, also acts as an antilactogen in mammary cells. In the present study we analyze the effect of TAM on the signal transduction pathway for prolactin (Prl). TAM bound specifically to NOG-8, an estrogen receptor-negative mammary cell line. Within 5 min of Prl treatment, raf-1, MEK and MAP kinase were induced 2-3-fold over the control level. TAM completely inhibited this Prl-induced activation of kinases as well as Prl binding and cell growth. These results indicate the potential role of TAM as an antilactogen in Prl responsive systems.
(3)Fertil Steril 1995 Oct;64(4):818-24 Related Articles, Links
Endocrine effects of testosterone undecanoate as a supplementary treatment to menopausal gonadotropins or tamoxifen citrate in idiopathic oligozoospermia.
Adamopoulos DA, Nicopoulou S, Kapolla N, Vassilopoulos P, Karamertzanis M, Kontogeorgos L.
Endocrine Department, Elena's Hospital, Athens, Greece.
OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the effects of T undecanoate given as a supplementary(treatment with tamoxifen citrate (TAM) or hMG on pituitary and Leydig cell function in men with idiopathic oligozoospermia. DESIGN: A total of 48 normogonadotropic men with idiopathic oligozoospermia were allocated in to six groups (n = 8 per group) treated with placebo, 40 mg T undecanoate three times per day, 10 mg TAM two times per day, T undecanoate and TAM, 75 IU/d hMG, and T undecanoate and hMG. All groups were evaluated with standard GnRH, thyrotropin-releasing hormone, and hCG tests before and on the final day of 3 months on treatment with measurements of FSH, LH, thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH), PRL, T, E2, 17-hydroxyprogesterone, sex hormone-binding globulin, and seminal analyses (at least twice each time). RESULTS: Basal and stimulated concentrations and incremental FSH and LH values showed no differences among TAM or hMG and TAM + T undecanoate or hMG + T undecanoate treated groups. Basal, stimulated, and incremental values for TSH and PRL were elevated markedly during treatment in most groups in comparison to placebo. Basal, stimulated, and incremental T and E2 values were similar in active treatment groups except that higher T concentration was found in TAM + T undecanoate as compared with T undecanoate only treated men. Finally, significant improvements were noted in important seminal parameters and particularly in the functional sperm fraction of the TAM + T undecanoate group as compared with single treatment with TAM. CONCLUSION: These results indicate that T undecanoate in combination with TAM or hMG not only had no adverse effects on pituitary and Leydig cell activity but also seemed to improve important seminal parameters and signify that androgens may be tried as a supplementary treatment to conventional regimes in idiopathic oligozoospermia.
Antiestrogenic properties of raloxifene.
Draper MW, Flowers DE, Neild JA, Huster WJ, Zerbe RL.
Lilly Research Laboratories, Eli Lilly and Company, Indianapolis, IN 46285, USA.
This 21-day, open-label study evaluated the effects of raloxifene and tamoxifen on estrogen-induced changes in serum levels of anterior pituitary hormones (prolactin, luteinizing hormone, and follicle-stimulating hormone), sex steroids (testosterone, estradiol), and binding globulins [thyroid binding globulin (T3 resin uptake), transcortin, sex steroid binding globulin]. Seventeen healthy male volunteers completed the study after being randomized to one of three treatments: raloxifene, tamoxifen, or placebo. Six subjects received raloxifene (200 mg daily) for 10 days, 6 subjects received tamoxifen [20 mg twice a day (b.i.d.)] for 10 days, and 5 subjects received placebo for 10 days. All subjects received ethinyl estradiol (20 micrograms b.i.d.) for 7 days starting 3 days after initiation of study drug or placebo treatment. Results of the primary analysis of this study indicate that for six of the seven analyzable parameters of estrogen action (excluding luteinizing hormone) raloxifene blunted the estrogen response; this effect was significant only for T3 resin uptake. Tamoxifen administration significantly blunted or reversed the estrogen effect in all six of these parameters. Raloxifene, an effective antiestrogen in animal models, is also antiestrogenic in humans.
when ethinyl estradiol was given, prolactin increased by 2.96 ng/ml above baseline in the placebo group. Tamoxifen completely reversed this leading to a drop of 1.29 ng/ml below baseline. Raloxifene only blunted the increase: after raloxifene administration, prolactin remained elevated by 0.85 ng/ml.
So for those people worried about prolactin induced gyno, tamoxifen looks like it may be an effective treatment.
Acta Endocrinol (Copenh) 1984 Feb;105(2):167-72
Testosterone-induced hyperprolactinaemia in a patient with a disturbance of hypothalamo-pituitary regulation.
Nicoletti I, Filipponi P, Fedeli L, Ambrosi F, Gregorini G, Santeusanio F.
A case of a patient with hypopituitarism due to a disturbance of hypothalamo-pituitary regulation is presented, who developed high-grade hyperprolactinaemia after the initiation of substitutive therapy with testosterone esthers.The increase in serum Prl was strictly related to testosterone aromatization to oestradiol, since anti-oestrogen compounds were effective in reducing (clomiphene) or abolishing (tamoxifen) the enhanced Prl secretion. The oestrogen effect in raising Prl release was not attributable to a reduction in the dopamine inhibition of Prl-secreting cells, as the dopamine-antagonist domperidone failed to increase Prl serum levels in the same patient. This suggests that, in man, the oestrogen effect in enhancing Prl release is mainly enacted directly on the pituitary lactotrophs rather than exerted through a reduction in the hypothalamic dopamine ..
Tamoxifen inhibits lactation:
Eur J Obstet Gynecol Reprod Biol 1975;4(5):167-9 Related Articles, Links
Suppression of lactation by an antiestrogen, tamoxifen.
The efficacy of a new antiestrogen, tamoxifen, in the suppression of lactation was tested in a placebo-controlled double-blind trial in 150 puerperal women. It proved to be very effective in preventing milk secretion and breast engorgement when its administration was commenced within two hours after delivery. No side effects were observed. Two dosage schedules were compared.
Br J Obstet Gynaecol 1978 Feb;85(2):134-7 Related Articles, Links
Inhibition of lactation and inhibition of prolactin release after mechanical breast stimulation in puerperal women given tamoxifen or placebo.
Masala A, Delitala G, Lo Dico G, Stoppelli I, Alagna S, Devilla L.
Tamoxifen was given orally to 60 puerperal women to inhibit lactation. Twenty control puerperal women were given placebo. Fifteen women receiving tamoxifen and 15 women receiving placebo were studied before, during and after the use of a breast pump under basal conditions and after five days of treatment. Tamoxifen was effective in inhibiting lactation; no rebound phenomena were observed. Its administration was free from side effects. This drug was capable of preventing the prolactin release induced by mechanical breast stimulation. Placebo failed to inhibit lactation and had no effect on prolactin release induced by the use of a breast pump
Das R, Vonderhaar BK.
Laboratory of Tumor Immunology and Biology, National Cancer Institute, Bethesda, MD 20892-1402, USA.barbarav@helix.nih.gov
Tamoxifen (TAM), an antiestrogen, also acts as an antilactogen in mammary cells. In the present study we analyze the effect of TAM on the signal transduction pathway for prolactin (Prl). TAM bound specifically to NOG-8, an estrogen receptor-negative mammary cell line. Within 5 min of Prl treatment, raf-1, MEK and MAP kinase were induced 2-3-fold over the control level. TAM completely inhibited this Prl-induced activation of kinases as well as Prl binding and cell growth. These results indicate the potential role of TAM as an antilactogen in Prl responsive systems.
(3)Fertil Steril 1995 Oct;64(4):818-24 Related Articles, Links
Endocrine effects of testosterone undecanoate as a supplementary treatment to menopausal gonadotropins or tamoxifen citrate in idiopathic oligozoospermia.
Adamopoulos DA, Nicopoulou S, Kapolla N, Vassilopoulos P, Karamertzanis M, Kontogeorgos L.
Endocrine Department, Elena's Hospital, Athens, Greece.
OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the effects of T undecanoate given as a supplementary(treatment with tamoxifen citrate (TAM) or hMG on pituitary and Leydig cell function in men with idiopathic oligozoospermia. DESIGN: A total of 48 normogonadotropic men with idiopathic oligozoospermia were allocated in to six groups (n = 8 per group) treated with placebo, 40 mg T undecanoate three times per day, 10 mg TAM two times per day, T undecanoate and TAM, 75 IU/d hMG, and T undecanoate and hMG. All groups were evaluated with standard GnRH, thyrotropin-releasing hormone, and hCG tests before and on the final day of 3 months on treatment with measurements of FSH, LH, thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH), PRL, T, E2, 17-hydroxyprogesterone, sex hormone-binding globulin, and seminal analyses (at least twice each time). RESULTS: Basal and stimulated concentrations and incremental FSH and LH values showed no differences among TAM or hMG and TAM + T undecanoate or hMG + T undecanoate treated groups. Basal, stimulated, and incremental values for TSH and PRL were elevated markedly during treatment in most groups in comparison to placebo. Basal, stimulated, and incremental T and E2 values were similar in active treatment groups except that higher T concentration was found in TAM + T undecanoate as compared with T undecanoate only treated men. Finally, significant improvements were noted in important seminal parameters and particularly in the functional sperm fraction of the TAM + T undecanoate group as compared with single treatment with TAM. CONCLUSION: These results indicate that T undecanoate in combination with TAM or hMG not only had no adverse effects on pituitary and Leydig cell activity but also seemed to improve important seminal parameters and signify that androgens may be tried as a supplementary treatment to conventional regimes in idiopathic oligozoospermia.
Antiestrogenic properties of raloxifene.
Draper MW, Flowers DE, Neild JA, Huster WJ, Zerbe RL.
Lilly Research Laboratories, Eli Lilly and Company, Indianapolis, IN 46285, USA.
This 21-day, open-label study evaluated the effects of raloxifene and tamoxifen on estrogen-induced changes in serum levels of anterior pituitary hormones (prolactin, luteinizing hormone, and follicle-stimulating hormone), sex steroids (testosterone, estradiol), and binding globulins [thyroid binding globulin (T3 resin uptake), transcortin, sex steroid binding globulin]. Seventeen healthy male volunteers completed the study after being randomized to one of three treatments: raloxifene, tamoxifen, or placebo. Six subjects received raloxifene (200 mg daily) for 10 days, 6 subjects received tamoxifen [20 mg twice a day (b.i.d.)] for 10 days, and 5 subjects received placebo for 10 days. All subjects received ethinyl estradiol (20 micrograms b.i.d.) for 7 days starting 3 days after initiation of study drug or placebo treatment. Results of the primary analysis of this study indicate that for six of the seven analyzable parameters of estrogen action (excluding luteinizing hormone) raloxifene blunted the estrogen response; this effect was significant only for T3 resin uptake. Tamoxifen administration significantly blunted or reversed the estrogen effect in all six of these parameters. Raloxifene, an effective antiestrogen in animal models, is also antiestrogenic in humans.
when ethinyl estradiol was given, prolactin increased by 2.96 ng/ml above baseline in the placebo group. Tamoxifen completely reversed this leading to a drop of 1.29 ng/ml below baseline. Raloxifene only blunted the increase: after raloxifene administration, prolactin remained elevated by 0.85 ng/ml.
So for those people worried about prolactin induced gyno, tamoxifen looks like it may be an effective treatment.
Acta Endocrinol (Copenh) 1984 Feb;105(2):167-72
Testosterone-induced hyperprolactinaemia in a patient with a disturbance of hypothalamo-pituitary regulation.
Nicoletti I, Filipponi P, Fedeli L, Ambrosi F, Gregorini G, Santeusanio F.
A case of a patient with hypopituitarism due to a disturbance of hypothalamo-pituitary regulation is presented, who developed high-grade hyperprolactinaemia after the initiation of substitutive therapy with testosterone esthers.The increase in serum Prl was strictly related to testosterone aromatization to oestradiol, since anti-oestrogen compounds were effective in reducing (clomiphene) or abolishing (tamoxifen) the enhanced Prl secretion. The oestrogen effect in raising Prl release was not attributable to a reduction in the dopamine inhibition of Prl-secreting cells, as the dopamine-antagonist domperidone failed to increase Prl serum levels in the same patient. This suggests that, in man, the oestrogen effect in enhancing Prl release is mainly enacted directly on the pituitary lactotrophs rather than exerted through a reduction in the hypothalamic dopamine ..
Tamoxifen inhibits lactation:
Eur J Obstet Gynecol Reprod Biol 1975;4(5):167-9 Related Articles, Links
Suppression of lactation by an antiestrogen, tamoxifen.
The efficacy of a new antiestrogen, tamoxifen, in the suppression of lactation was tested in a placebo-controlled double-blind trial in 150 puerperal women. It proved to be very effective in preventing milk secretion and breast engorgement when its administration was commenced within two hours after delivery. No side effects were observed. Two dosage schedules were compared.
Br J Obstet Gynaecol 1978 Feb;85(2):134-7 Related Articles, Links
Inhibition of lactation and inhibition of prolactin release after mechanical breast stimulation in puerperal women given tamoxifen or placebo.
Masala A, Delitala G, Lo Dico G, Stoppelli I, Alagna S, Devilla L.
Tamoxifen was given orally to 60 puerperal women to inhibit lactation. Twenty control puerperal women were given placebo. Fifteen women receiving tamoxifen and 15 women receiving placebo were studied before, during and after the use of a breast pump under basal conditions and after five days of treatment. Tamoxifen was effective in inhibiting lactation; no rebound phenomena were observed. Its administration was free from side effects. This drug was capable of preventing the prolactin release induced by mechanical breast stimulation. Placebo failed to inhibit lactation and had no effect on prolactin release induced by the use of a breast pump
Last edited:
gyno_ghost
New Member
LuvMuhRoids said:
Great advice. As you can tell from my user name, I'm sensitive to all forms of gyno. I started to get the itchies from just 200 mg Deca each week. I added 50 mg Winstrol every day and, along with the DBol I was also taking, I had the best cycle I've ever enjoyed.
I usually start the Nolvadex a few days before I start a cycle to get it active in my system. Then I usually use 40 mg per day to keep it away. I know that's a lot, but the alternative is unthinkable...
Good luck,
GG
JMB
New Member
what about
What about using bromocriptine--I know it will shoot your cholesterol in the ass quicker then arimidex but I think that is good for progesterone induced gyno and generally gyno. Please correct me if I am wrong, I am not current on that info but it did stick out in my mind as being so.
Respects,
JMB
dodah said:
What about using bromocriptine--I know it will shoot your cholesterol in the ass quicker then arimidex but I think that is good for progesterone induced gyno and generally gyno. Please correct me if I am wrong, I am not current on that info but it did stick out in my mind as being so.
Respects,
JMB
LuvMuhRoids
New Member
This is a very nice post and informative but the study is done on Test Undeconoate like Andriol not NANDROLONE DECANOATE which is what the original poster is taking. The study is true but Nan Deca causes the progesterone and is untreatable by tamoxifen.
Phreezer said:
LuvMuhRoids
New Member
Thank you ghost. Taking nolva just before a cycle is highly suggestable and looks like you have definitely done your research. Also in your case I would suggest an anti-aromatizer instead of a estrogen blocker if you are that prone to gyno. In the best case of course getting the glands removed is ideal which would in the long run save us all loads of cash and trouble. 
gyno_ghost said:
LuvMuhRoids
New Member
No you should be fine on EQ and good luck growing. Youre welcome for the help. Any more help shoot me a PM guys or post away.
dodah said:
gyno_ghost
New Member
LuvMuhRoids said:Thank you ghost. Taking nolva just before a cycle is highly suggestable and looks like you have definitely done your research. Also in your case I would suggest an anti-aromatizer instead of a estrogen blocker if you are that prone to gyno. In the best case of course getting the glands removed is ideal which would in the long run save us all loads of cash and trouble.
Ha ha ha! You know, with surgery becoming less and less expensive--and the procedures becoming more and more routine--I am tempted to do just that.
I am considering adding Arimidex to my upcoming cycle. I would still rely on Nolvadex for the majority of my protection, but adding even just half a tablet of Arimidex every day to my preferred dose of 40 mg Nolvadex would likely make gyno more or less impossible. I'm checking with a few sources on prices, as the standard $10/pill is out of my meager price range.
I've always had great results with Nolvadex, but after reading the Anabolics Handbook, I'm eager to try Arimidex. With the way Arimidex is hyped in the book, you'd think Zenica Pharmaceuticals was the publisher! But I'm sure it's being touted for good reason and I'd like to take advantage of a great product, if at all possible.
Thanks for your reply.
GG
