Powder Mixing

[Bootybeaver]

Any one have any thoughts on the best way to evenly mix filler with active ingredient prior to capping? Is there any equipment or process that would help accomplish this (that isn’t a thousand+ dollars)?

thanks everyone....

 

[Zebedee]

Simplest way to make blending easier, quicker & more accurate is to use smaller capsule sizes.

Eg a #5 capsule would require just 19% of the volume of filler needed for a #0 capsule. That gives you a much higher active ingredient to filler ratio for the same given dose per cap. Result is it's easier to get a uniform blend. You also have far less powder to blend, full stop.

The downside is that whilst blending becomes easier the smaller the capsule size, depending on what sort of capping kit you have, the actual capping can get harder the smaller you go. #5 caps in a manual capping machine could be a right bastard & a half to load, whereas #0 is easy. Swings & roundabouts, as us Brits say.

Other than that, it would help if you provide a bit more info first mate to save me typing out generic advice that might not really be that relevant to your circumstances.

What size capsules are you working with?

What sort of capping kit do you have?

What sort of dosing per cap are you aiming for? Obviously it's going to vary from compound to compound, but using, say dbol as an example / guide, would it be low (eg 10mg), moderate (eg 20-25mg), or high (eg 50mg)?

Are you looking to knock out say just 50-100 capsules every 2-3 months, or more? No worries if you'd rather not be specific (AFAIK you're a Yank, so would be understandable), but a bit of a pointer might help.

What excipient(s) are you using?

Are you willing to spend some money on kit, just wanting to work with what you already have, or maybe spend $50 ish sort of amount?

 

[Bootybeaver]

Simplest way to make blending easier, quicker & more accurate is to use smaller capsule sizes.

Eg a #5 capsule would require just 19% of the volume of filler needed for a #0 capsule. That gives you a much higher active ingredient to filler ratio for the same given dose per cap. Result is it's easier to get a uniform blend. You also have far less powder to blend, full stop.

The downside is that whilst blending becomes easier the smaller the capsule size, depending on what sort of capping kit you have, the actual capping can get harder the smaller you go. #5 caps in a manual capping machine could be a right bastard & a half to load, whereas #0 is easy. Swings & roundabouts, as us Brits say.

Other than that, it would help if you provide a bit more info first mate to save me typing out generic advice that might not really be that relevant to your circumstances.

What size capsules are you working with?

What sort of capping kit do you have?

What sort of dosing per cap are you aiming for? Obviously it's going to vary from compound to compound, but using, say dbol as an example / guide, would it be low (eg 10mg), moderate (eg 20-25mg), or high (eg 50mg)?

Are you looking to knock out say just 50-100 capsules every 2-3 months, or more? No worries if you'd rather not be specific (AFAIK you're a Yank, so would be understandable), but a bit of a pointer might help.

What excipient(s) are you using?

Are you willing to spend some money on kit, just wanting to work with what you already have, or maybe spend $50 ish sort of amount?

ya, that is a thought. But the difficulty and accessibility to smaller capsule size making devices where I’m at is a pain. The companies that have them available (at least in large enough batch size) require submitted approval from the dea or whatever lame branch of government that has there fingers in this shit. This alone isn’t a huge problem except I have “controlled substance” distribution charges from another time in my life that makes me concerned they would either deny my request for approval or that they would use that as reason to spend extra energy looking into my intent.

currently I have very big capsules (00) as it was the only capping kit I could find that allowed a decent amount per run (100) and that also didn’t require any sort of identification of the purchaser.

my last batch I employed micro scoops and found a scoop that was close to my desired dose, verified it’s weight via .001 balance, and manually dosed each capsule before sealing them. This is fine for once and a while but without going into detail I need a more efficient solution. I was hoping there was some strategy for homogenizing of powder mixtures that allowed for more accuracy than blending shit up and praying its mixed right.

I looked into those V shaped shaker things that produce very even mixtures, they can be found for affordable prices (relatively), BUT from what I’ve been able to infer, they require too large of a minimum batch size for me as I don’t work with a large enough amount of active ingredient to be able to make it work.

currently I use lactose as an excipient and my doses vary depending on the product. As low as 5mg probably for certain items but more often the range is 10-15mg, 20-30mg, and hi as 50mg for others. Just depends on what it is. I thought of making solutions for the very small dosed items, but I have found out that a few of those items have very poor solubility and I can not find a way to fully and evenly suspend the solution, therefor defeating the purpose.....

I was thinking maybe there was a way to use some sort of organic solvent to completely disolve both active and inactive ingredients, allow the solvent to evaporate out of the solution leaving a potentially even Solid mixture behind that I could then successfully blend back into powder that was homogeneous. I read an article of scientists trying to do something similar with taladifil, but they were trying to leave it in solution form so they did not dissolve any filler with it.
I was hoping some ancient procedure existed that only the wise old timers know as they pass it down to the newer generations to carry the technique on...... Is anyone aware of the existence of said technique? Lol

 

[Carter79]

ya, that is a thought. But the difficulty and accessibility to smaller capsule size making devices where I’m at is a pain. The companies that have them available (at least in large enough batch size) require submitted approval from the dea or whatever lame branch of government that has there fingers in this shit. This alone isn’t a huge problem except I have “controlled substance” distribution charges from another time in my life that makes me concerned they would either deny my request for approval or that they would use that as reason to spend extra energy looking into my intent.

currently I have very big capsules (00) as it was the only capping kit I could find that allowed a decent amount per run (100) and that also didn’t require any sort of identification of the purchaser.

my last batch I employed micro scoops and found a scoop that was close to my desired dose, verified it’s weight via .001 balance, and manually dosed each capsule before sealing them. This is fine for once and a while but without going into detail I need a more efficient solution. I was hoping there was some strategy for homogenizing of powder mixtures that allowed for more accuracy than blending shit up and praying its mixed right.

I looked into those V shaped shaker things that produce very even mixtures, they can be found for affordable prices (relatively), BUT from what I’ve been able to infer, they require too large of a minimum batch size for me as I don’t work with a large enough amount of active ingredient to be able to make it work.

currently I use lactose as an excipient and my doses vary depending on the product. As low as 5mg probably for certain items but more often the range is 10-15mg, 20-30mg, and hi as 50mg for others. Just depends on what it is. I thought of making solutions for the very small dosed items, but I have found out that a few of those items have very poor solubility and I can not find a way to fully and evenly suspend the solution, therefor defeating the purpose.....

I was thinking maybe there was a way to use some sort of organic solvent to completely disolve both active and inactive ingredients, allow the solvent to evaporate out of the solution leaving a potentially even Solid mixture behind that I could then successfully blend back into powder that was homogeneous. I read an article of scientists trying to do something similar with taladifil, but they were trying to leave it in solution form so they did not dissolve any filler with it.
I was hoping some ancient procedure existed that only the wise old timers know as they pass it down to the newer generations to carry the technique on...... Is anyone aware of the existence of said technique? Lol

Sorry to hijack real quick but what do you use for mixer in your caps? I use protein powder but I feel its a bad idea also could we not just use a blender to mix everything? I haven't tried it but would it hurt the compound doing so?

 

[Zebedee]

ya, that is a thought. But the difficulty and accessibility to smaller capsule size making devices where I’m at is a pain. The companies that have them available (at least in large enough batch size) require submitted approval from the dea or whatever lame branch of government that has there fingers in this shit. This alone isn’t a huge problem except I have “controlled substance” distribution charges from another time in my life that makes me concerned they would either deny my request for approval or that they would use that as reason to spend extra energy looking into my intent.

currently I have very big capsules (00) as it was the only capping kit I could find that allowed a decent amount per run (100) and that also didn’t require any sort of identification of the purchaser.

I've read mention of FDA or DEA regs requiring official paperwork for some types of capping kit, but didn't realise it was as lame as for anything more than around 100 caps. FUBAR as fuck!

It's evening in the UK now, so i'll reply properly tomorrow mate.

In the mean time though - i'm assuming that as you've said that V-type blenders can be bought for a "relatively" reasonable price, you'd be ok spending $200-400 or so on a solution? Just that knowing that might help me to point you to a possible solution.

Also, do those FDA or DEA regs just apply to capping kit sales made within the US, or cover importation as well, if you know?

 

[Zebedee]

Sorry to hijack real quick but what do you use for mixer in your caps? I use protein powder but I feel its a bad idea also could we not just use a blender to mix everything? I haven't tried it but would it hurt the compound doing so?

See his 5th paragraph mate - lactose powder

 

[Bootybeaver]

I've read mention of FDA or DEA regs requiring official paperwork for some types of capping kit, but didn't realise it was as lame as for anything more than around 100 caps. FUBAR as fuck!

It's evening in the UK now, so i'll reply properly tomorrow mate.

In the mean time though - i'm assuming that as you've said that V-type blenders can be bought for a "relatively" reasonable price, you'd be ok spending $200-400 or so on a solution? Just that knowing that might help me to point you to a possible solution.

Also, do those FDA or DEA regs just apply to capping kit sales made within the US, or cover importation as well, if you know?

I think technically it covers importation also, but that means they have to recognize what’s in the package, which may or may not happen (leaning towards they prob wouldn’t notice), but I’m not entirely sure. If it’s super obvious what’s in the box they might. But ya, they are “regulated Devices” along with tablet presses and anything else in that category with any reasonable output.

but yes 200-400 is in the budget for sure....

 

[Bootybeaver]

Sorry to hijack real quick but what do you use for mixer in your caps? I use protein powder but I feel its a bad idea also could we not just use a blender to mix everything? I haven't tried it but would it hurt the compound doing so?

Ya lactose is very common, also microcrystalline cellulose although I think that is more common in tablets and tablet binder ingredients. I always just use lactose for capsules.
And the blending question, I think it’s less about damaging the compound as it is about the impossibility of making an actual homogeneous even mixture. Like @Zebedee was saying above, if drastically smaller capsules are used, much less filler is necessary making it exponentially easier to creat even dosing. But the more filler, the more precise the mixing technique has to be and blending for extensive periods of time, in my experience, still yields some caps with negligible active ingredient and some caps with double the intended dose. The problem becomes finding a middle ground. small caps are very very hard to work with which eliminates the efficiency but adds to the accuracy cuz there is less filler to create uneven mixtures. large caps are easy to work with but inaccurate without a solid mixing technique or a willingness to invest in the equipment necessary to accomplish even mixing, which from what I have been able to find means a particularly large minimum batch size. Solutions are only accurate if the active ingredient is completely soluble and even then often times require alcohol. And for me personally, I am very very strictly against the ingestion of mind altering substances, alcohol, narcotics, etc..... as I have learned for me Personally, I have to stay away from all substances in order to avoid problems in my life, and a taste is all it would take for me to very possibly reconsider my stance and head down a regrettable path.
Sooo these are my hurdles based on issues specific to my situation. For personal use, solutions seem great for any soluble compound if you don’t have the personal stance I do on the topic. Individual dosing of caps with micro scoops is also not bad if just for individual use, once you figure out the right sized scoop for your dose it’s relatively quick work. It just becomes hard and tedious if itS not just for you. For you and even couple buddies it becomes irritating and inefficient and OBVIOUSLY if your sourcing in your community, it is absolutely unrealistic and time consuming to individually dose each capsule.

 

[Iron Vett]

Actually going with a smaller cap will leave more of a margin for error. Through the law if averages, the more filler used in proportion to the active compound gives less of a chance for having large variations between caps. And as for as for how to mix it you could use something as simple as a ziplock bag and just shake the crap out of it to blend if you are only home brewing.

As far as the ratios of powder to filler go, if only homebrewing for yourself you can do something as simple as weigh an empty cap then fill the cap with your filler. Then take the weight of the active compound per cap and subtract that from the total filler put in the capsule. Now multiply this by the number of caps you are making and mix it up. This will not give you an exact recipe But will get you in the ballpark. Now pack your capsules up in your capsule machine and tamp them down till you can’t fit anymore into any of the caps. You will probably have some leftover powder. Weigh it and subtract that from your filler for the next batch and see if all of that batch will fit in the amount of caps you’re making. If not make another adjustment until it all fits into the caps. This is not the professional way to calculate this but it is usually easy enough to understand this method that most new home brewers can be successful at it.

 

[Dthcore]

I’ve been using Humco and now I want to cap my shit after reading this. Fuck... lol

 

[Bootybeaver]

Actually going with a smaller cap will leave more of a margin for error. Through the law if averages, the more filler used in proportion to the active compound gives less of a chance for having large variations between caps. And as for as for how to mix it you could use something as simple as a ziplock bag and just shake the crap out of it to blend if you are only home brewing.

As far as the ratios of powder to filler go, if only homebrewing for yourself you can do something as simple as weigh an empty cap then fill the cap with your filler. Then take the weight of the active compound per cap and subtract that from the total filler put in the capsule. Now multiply this by the number of caps you are making and mix it up. This will not give you an exact recipe But will get you in the ballpark. Now pack your capsules up in your capsule machine and tamp them down till you can’t fit anymore into any of the caps. You will probably have some leftover powder. Weigh it and subtract that from your filler for the next batch and see if all of that batch will fit in the amount of caps you’re making. If not make another adjustment until it all fits into the caps. This is not the professional way to calculate this but it is usually easy enough to understand this method that most new home brewers can be successful at it.

Bro, seriously? Did you read the OP or any of the other posts besides the last one before yours? I think it’s funny that you start off with a claimed scientific law, and finish with the very scientific suggestion of shaking up a bag until Jesus tells you its mixed evenly or whatever. Unrelated post alert. Not relevant to the discussion. No one wanted or needed a tutorial in basic arithmetic, which by the sounds of it you may need a bit of brushing up on it. The conversation was how to create a homogeneous mixture, meaning even, not hoping and praying and think “well that’s probably even”. If you have to go back and adjust and adjust and adjust like your tutorial suggestions, my inclination would be to assume it’s probably not an exact science. The question, if you care to contribute relevant info, is how to create a homogenous mixture akin to pharm or supplement companies, whether it be purchasing equipment to do so, a strategy such as dissolving excipients and active ingredient and recrystallizing (a theory), or anything that creates ACTUAL consistency, not assumed consistency. This is done for many different applications, in small batches like I’m inquiring about. Scientific studies, pre production testing batches, makeup industry..... I mean @Iron Vett, my man, I stated I individually dosed my capsules to achieve a real known consistent dose, did you read ANY of that? If you did why would you think your suggestion was helpful.... I mean shaking up a zip lock bag.....is not helpful man.

Additionally the little comment about “new brewers” no body in this conversation is that. Everyone here learned the math your trying to explain in the third grade. And it seems everyone but you decided to read the OP... which a seasoned member would be aware of doing prior to injecting irrelevant distractions to people’s conversations.... So maybe your a “NEW MEMEBER”..... see that man? Pretty condescending right? Maybe someone asking how to half-hazardly slop together capsules with a very very large margin of error, they might be a new brewer. But, again, that is not and was never a question, nor a relevant topic to the discussion at hand. Thank you tho for your off topic and frustrating interjection.....

 

[Bootybeaver]

God damn man!!! Every serious thread I post with A very clear and specific conversation topic gets hijacked by someone who wants to just contradict and give opinions when they don’t even know what they are supposed to be giving opinions about! It is very disrespectful and frustrating cuz it often times literally robs the thread of any consistent useful information. Cuz someone piggy backs on that off topic shit and etc and etc....

READ THE OP PEOPLE. PLEASE GOD, READ THE OP AND AT LEAST THE LAST PAGE OF POSTS PRIOR TO GIVING OPINIONS! FML

 

[Bootybeaver]

@Zebedee, don’t forget about me amongst the distractions, brother, I’m very curious about what suggestions you may have!

 

[Bootybeaver]

I’ve been using Humco and now I want to cap my shit after reading this. Fuck... lol

Honestly for personal use solutions are the way to Go, but as stated above, often times compounds have very poor solubility and therefor Defeats the purpose of a solution Cuz no real consistent dosing can be accomplished. They other issue I have is that solutions often times require a decent amount of alcohol. I don’t touch any alcohol or narcotics of any kind for personal reasons and there is more than enough alcohol in the solutions to taste and trigger a bad decision in me. That is the premise of the question. Individually dosing capsules is possible and not extremely overbearing for personal use, but it is still very tedious and if you have more than 1 other person your making shit for, it’s absolutely inefficient and time consuming. These are the source issues that led to the original post inquiry...... additionally, even if I was ok hoping my doses were right by shaking a bag up, I’m unwilling to bet someone else’s health on it and I feel it would be irresponsible and unethical to do that to someone.

 

[Iron Vett]

Bro, seriously? Did you read the OP or any of the other posts besides the last one before yours? I think it’s funny that you start off with a claimed scientific law, and finish with the very scientific suggestion of shaking up a bag until Jesus tells you its mixed evenly or whatever. Unrelated post alert. Not relevant to the discussion. No one wanted or needed a tutorial in basic arithmetic, which by the sounds of it you may need a bit of brushing up on it. The conversation was how to create a homogeneous mixture, meaning even, not hoping and praying and think “well that’s probably even”. If you have to go back and adjust and adjust and adjust like your tutorial suggestions, my inclination would be to assume it’s probably not an exact science. The question, if you care to contribute relevant info, is how to create a homogenous mixture akin to pharm or supplement companies, whether it be purchasing equipment to do so, a strategy such as dissolving excipients and active ingredient and recrystallizing (a theory), or anything that creates ACTUAL consistency, not assumed consistency. This is done for many different applications, in small batches like I’m inquiring about. Scientific studies, pre production testing batches, makeup industry..... I mean @Iron Vett, my man, I stated I individually dosed my capsules to achieve a real known consistent dose, did you read ANY of that? If you did why would you think your suggestion was helpful.... I mean shaking up a zip lock bag.....is not helpful man.

Additionally the little comment about “new brewers” no body in this conversation is that. Everyone here learned the math your trying to explain in the third grade. And it seems everyone but you decided to read the OP... which a seasoned member would be aware of doing prior to injecting irrelevant distractions to people’s conversations.... So maybe your a “NEW MEMEBER”..... see that man? Pretty condescending right? Maybe someone asking how to half-hazardly slop together capsules with a very very large margin of error, they might be a new brewer. But, again, that is not and was never a question, nor a relevant topic to the discussion at hand. Thank you tho for your off topic and frustrating interjection.....

Bro. You seem to have a serious problem with an inferiority complex if you feel that post was aimed at you. I help home brewers in simple ways that are easy for them to understand and perform at home for themselves. Are there better and more accurate ways? Of course there are. I even mentioned that but these are home brewer threads where you need a good enough accuracy to get the job done and not the accuracy required of a true lab where they will be scrutinized by the public as well as have their products tested for accuracy. Calm your britches and untie you’re panties and realize that others WILL have opinions that differ from yours at times. There are more than one way to skin that cat. Now have a great day at Meso and enjoy yourself here.

 

[Bootybeaver]

Bro. You seem to have a serious problem with an inferiority complex if you feel that post was aimed at you. I help home brewers in simple ways that are easy for them to understand and perform at home for themselves. Are there better and more accurate ways? Of course there are. I even mentioned that but these are home brewer threads where you need a good enough accuracy to get the job done and not the accuracy required of a true lab where they will be scrutinized by the public as well as have their products tested for accuracy. Calm your britches and untie you’re panties and realize that others WILL have opinions that differ from yours at times. There are more than one way to skin that cat. Now have a great day at Meso and enjoy yourself here.

That’s what you got out of my rant??? That I don’t like your opinion? Bro do you ever read anything, at all? The real question is, which I already know the answer to, would you walk up to two people having a conversation and interject with an opinion based on the last sentence you just heard while standing there? OR would you inquire about the nature of the conversation first? This is my point. How can you “help people” if you don’t even know what your helping with, my man?
Every once and a while I just become fed up with lame half assed shit Of people who half ass everything, and I take it out on people who are half assing in my presence. My bad for expecting people to read 4 posts before posting....
Thanks for sharing how to inaccurately mix powder, “good Enough for most people”, in a thread that is specifically a discussion about any and every known strategy, suggestion, or “reasonably” affordable equipment, that would lead to precise and exact mixtures..... your contribution was amazingly relevant!

 

[Bootybeaver]

Bro. You seem to have a serious problem with an inferiority complex if you feel that post was aimed at you. I help home brewers in simple ways that are easy for them to understand and perform at home for themselves. Are there better and more accurate ways? Of course there are. I even mentioned that but these are home brewer threads where you need a good enough accuracy to get the job done and not the accuracy required of a true lab where they will be scrutinized by the public as well as have their products tested for accuracy. Calm your britches and untie you’re panties and realize that others WILL have opinions that differ from yours at times. There are more than one way to skin that cat. Now have a great day at Meso and enjoy yourself here.

And bro, don’t get it twisted, I know people need to make shit work With what they have, and that’s fine, but there is already a thread for that... you made this long comment explaining how to do some shit that no one even asked about bro..... just seems a little ridiculous. To just pop up in a conversation about politics in the Middle East and jump in and start talking about this trip I took to Jordan cuz I heard someone mention the Middle East... it’s A pretty irritating habit..... But, then again, so is ripping people for doing stupid shit, so I guess we are even.....

 

[Iron Vett]

And bro, don’t get it twisted, I know people need to make shit work With what they have, and that’s fine, but there is already a thread for that... you made this long comment explaining how to do some shit that no one even asked about bro..... just seems a little ridiculous. To just pop up in a conversation about politics in the Middle East and jump in and start talking about this trip I took to Jordan cuz I heard someone mention the Middle East... it’s A pretty irritating habit..... But, then again, so is ripping people for doing stupid shit, so I guess we are even.....

As I had said, my comment wasn’t really directed at you. It was directed at @Zebedee comment about a smaller capsule being more accurate. It’s not. I don’t want someone to read an inaccurate statement by someone and not also see the rebuttal. You will see this happen all throughout meso. Not just in your thread twiddle toes.

Now if you would like me to comment on the op, it sounds like you are trying to go for a bit larger operation and keep the costs down here rather than being a true home brewer who is just taking care of himself. In this case you may be interested in making a tumbler. It’s been used by quite a few people here and works well. It is usually made from a Plastic peanut butter jar with a hole drilled in the center of the lid to attach a stem to and then insert this Stem into a variable speed drill to turn it around 60 rpms. Inside of the peanut butter jar, attach (hot glue?) popsicle sticks to the sides so that the compound and filler fold as the drum tumbles. Also there are small 110v geared motors that turn around 60 Rpms that run around $10. This setup can be attached to a small wooden frame

 

[Azul]

ya, that is a thought. But the difficulty and accessibility to smaller capsule size making devices where I’m at is a pain. The companies that have them available (at least in large enough batch size) require submitted approval from the dea or whatever lame branch of government that has there fingers in this shit. This alone isn’t a huge problem except I have “controlled substance” distribution charges from another time in my life that makes me concerned they would either deny my request for approval or that they would use that as reason to spend extra energy looking into my intent.

currently I have very big capsules (00) as it was the only capping kit I could find that allowed a decent amount per run (100) and that also didn’t require any sort of identification of the purchaser.

my last batch I employed micro scoops and found a scoop that was close to my desired dose, verified it’s weight via .001 balance, and manually dosed each capsule before sealing them. This is fine for once and a while but without going into detail I need a more efficient solution. I was hoping there was some strategy for homogenizing of powder mixtures that allowed for more accuracy than blending shit up and praying its mixed right.

I looked into those V shaped shaker things that produce very even mixtures, they can be found for affordable prices (relatively), BUT from what I’ve been able to infer, they require too large of a minimum batch size for me as I don’t work with a large enough amount of active ingredient to be able to make it work.

currently I use lactose as an excipient and my doses vary depending on the product. As low as 5mg probably for certain items but more often the range is 10-15mg, 20-30mg, and hi as 50mg for others. Just depends on what it is. I thought of making solutions for the very small dosed items, but I have found out that a few of those items have very poor solubility and I can not find a way to fully and evenly suspend the solution, therefor defeating the purpose.....

I was thinking maybe there was a way to use some sort of organic solvent to completely disolve both active and inactive ingredients, allow the solvent to evaporate out of the solution leaving a potentially even Solid mixture behind that I could then successfully blend back into powder that was homogeneous. I read an article of scientists trying to do something similar with taladifil, but they were trying to leave it in solution form so they did not dissolve any filler with it.
I was hoping some ancient procedure existed that only the wise old timers know as they pass it down to the newer generations to carry the technique on...... Is anyone aware of the existence of said technique? Lol

I recently found a size 3 capsule machine on ebay that makes 50 caps per batch. It’s not the best design for a machine I’ve bought for small batch use, but I needed the size. So, I went with it.

Maybe that will help if you decide to mix for a smaller cap size.

 

[Bootybeaver]

As I had said, my comment wasn’t really directed at you. It was directed at @Zebedee comment about a smaller capsule being more accurate. It’s not. I don’t want someone to read an inaccurate statement by someone and not also see the rebuttal. You will see this happen all throughout meso. Not just in your thread twiddle toes.

Now if you would like me to comment on the op, it sounds like you are trying to go for a bit larger operation and keep the costs down here rather than being a true home brewer who is just taking care of himself. In this case you may be interested in making a tumbler. It’s been used by quite a few people here and works well. It is usually made from a Plastic peanut butter jar with a hole drilled in the center of the lid to attach a stem to and then insert this Stem into a variable speed drill to turn it around 60 rpms. Inside of the peanut butter jar, attach (hot glue?) popsicle sticks to the sides so that the compound and filler fold as the drum tumbles. Also there are small 110v geared motors that turn around 60 Rpms that run around $10. This setup can be attached to a small wooden frame

Fair enough...... and you do have it right it’s not just for me, as I said it’s for me and the other people in my circle.... that’s why I said I wanted to make sure my doses are correct. Your contraption sounds like it would work. My intention is to keep costs down for sure, for me and my friends, so we can get clean, safe, correctly dosed gear..... we all have interests in the cost of the setup. So I don’t feel it’s “not a true home brewer” just because someone has a desire to be good at something. That’s like saying someone who studies biology, anatomy and physiology, to better understand the bodies response to training stimulus, for the purpose of creating a more efficient and effective training regimen, is not a true bodybuilder or gym rat cuz they must be wanting to run a gym since they aren’t cool with half assed bro science...... your logic is flawed. The thing that is wrong with many people is they aren’t willing to sacrifice anything to be good at what they do. They just do the same thing for years and put little to no effort into advancing their skillset. This is not a person I would call passionate about what they do. If your saying a true home brewer is someone that finds the easiest and cheapest way to do shit, who is not willing to ask questions and explore possible ways to become better at their hobby, and who is ok with mediocrity, well, I’d STRONGLY disagree with that.
Your essentially saying a desire for knowledge and perfection makes one less of a true home brewer than you.
My personal opinion is if your not willing to put out the effort to do something correctly, especially when it’s something that can have drastic health effects if done incorrectly or carelessly, your just a lazy meathead trying to save money on gear...... and I’d go out on a limb and say If the above description is accurate that same person is more than likely on gear in the first place cuz they wanted to half ass their training and still see results rather than the guy who trained his heart out and reached genetic potential before deciding to explore the AAS world.
And to address your comment about keeping costs down while trying to run a larger operation, the costs associated with quality production are negligible compared to the profit margin, I think a home brewer should be quite aware of that. Penny pinching on a setup is pointless. Additionally I would hope someone in the process of trying to open a large scale operation would be smarter than to publicly request advice on the topic.

But, Your peanut butter jar idea is a very good idea and perfect for what I need. I’m still curious of its ability to accurately mix, the v mixers are designed to achieve homogeneous mixtures, they also don’t spin very fast cuz the centrifugal force involved in high speed rotation would keep the powder from mixing. 60rpm sounds like an appropriate speed. I’ll probably give it a shot and send a handful of caps for testing to see it’s accuracy.. BUT, it sounds like a very promising idea.... How do you know about this gem and why wouldn’t you have shared that in the first place, Champ?
I think you took a leap there assuming I was here to look for a cheap way to open a new lab, very defensive there, Tiger... I’ve noticed over time that people who steal, always assume people are shoplifting, people who deal drugs always think that random car is a drug deal, my point is your brain takes you where you know the layout..... and why are you threatened even if I was interested in the ins and outs of lab operation? Why would that threaten “a true home brewer” like you. Why would that make me worse of a person than any of the other hundreds of labs that try to operate here..... the answer lies with intent. YOUR true intent.....
So what’s your labs name? Don’t worry bro, I’m not competition. Honestly someone looking for the cheapest way to do something should be relieving to you, it is the clear sign I am not competing with you or other labs...... I couldn’t very well show MESO a picture of my lab with a peanut butter tumbler and my home made flow hood and assume I wouldn’t get torn to pieces.....

Thank you for contributing a relevant piece of information! Very happy to see progress was made!!! Not sarcastically at all..... sincerely!