Pre Cycle Blood Labs with results

[PIP427]

After doing weeks of research on this forum and after much appreciated input from others, I decided I was going to get a full panel of labs done as a base line prior to starting a cycle. Glad I did, some of my levels are off/ High.
Cholesterol is high, that I understand. But some of my blood count levels are high, so I will have to send this over to my Dr, and have him go over it with me.

Stats
Male, Age 42. 6Ft 180 lbs. (no more ice cream for me)
B/F. I will guesstimate 17%?? (I am fairly thin, its mainly my gut)

Test & Price
NMR LIPO Profile $127.00
CBC w/diff & plt $29.00
Estrogen Fractionated Pkg Hormone $159.00
Comprehensive Metabolic Panel (CMP-14) $29.00
FSH & LH (Hormone) $69.00

* LDL-P ****** 1828 (high)
Low < 1000
Moderate 1000 - 1299
Borderline-High 1300 - 1599
High 1600 - 2000
Very High > 2000

* LDL-C ***** 165 (high)
Optimal < 100
Above optimal 100 - 129
Borderline 130 – 159
High 160 - 189
Very high > 189

HDL-C ********** 59 (mg/dL >=40)
Triglycerides **********41 (mg/dL <150)
* Cholesterol, Total******** 232 HIGH ( mg/dL <200)
* HDL-P (Total)****** 29.3 LOW (umol/L >= 30.5)
* Small LDL-P***** 695 HIGH (nmol/L <= 527)
LDL Size ******* 21.3 ( nm > 20.5 01)

Large VLDL-P **** (< 0.7 nmol/L <= 2.7)
*Small LDL-P *** 695 HIGH (nmol/L <= 527)
*Large HDL-P *** 3.2 LOW (umol/L >= 4.8)

LDL Size ** 21.3 ( nm >= 20.8)
* HDL Size ** 8.6 LOW (nm >= 9.2)

LP-IR Score ** 36 (<= 45)
The LP-IR Score combines the information from Large VLDL-P,
Small LDL-P, Large HDL-P, VLDL Size, LDL Size and HDL Size
to give improved assessment of insulin resistance and
diabetes risk.

CBP 14 Test
WBC *** 3.5 (x10E3/uL) (3.4-10.8 )
RBC *** 4.28 (x10E6/uL) (4.14-5.80)
Hemoglobin *** 14.2 (g/dL) (12.6-17.7)
Hematocrit *** 42.5 (%) (37.5-51.0)
* MCV *** 99 HIGH (fL) (79-97)
* MCH *** 33.2 HIGH (pg ) (26.6-33.0)
MCHC*** 33.4 (g/dL) (31.5-35.7)

RDW*** 13.8 (% 12.3-15.4)
Platelets 174 (x10E3/uL 155-379)
Neutrophils 46 (% 40-74)
Lymphs 45 (% 14-46)
Monocytes 8 (% 4-12)
Eos 1 (% 0-5)
Basos 0 (% 0-3)
Immature Cells None
Neutrophils (Absolute) 1.6 (x10E3/uL 1.4-7.0 )
Lymphs (Absolute) 1.6 (x10E3/uL 0.7-3.1)
Monocytes(Absolute) 0.3 (x10E3/uL 0.1-0.9)
Eos (Absolute) 0.0 ( x10E3/uL 0.0-0.4)
Baso (Absolute) 0.0 ( x10E3/uL 0.0-0.2)
Immature Granulocytes (0 % 0-2)
Immature Grans (Abs) 0.0 (x10E3/uL 0.0-0.1)

Glucose, Serum 97 (mg/dL 65-99)
BUN 20 (mg/dL 6-24)
Creatinine, Serum 0.94 (mg/dL 0.76-1.27
eGFR If NonAfricn Am 100 (mL/min/1.73 >59)
eGFR If Africn Am 115 (mL/min/1.73 >59)
*BUN/Creatinine Ratio 21 HIGH (9-20)
Sodium, Serum 140 ( mmol/L 134-144)
Potassium, Serum 4.1( mmol/L 3.5-5.2)
Chloride, Serum 102 ( mmol/L 97-108)
Carbon Dioxide, Total 25( mmol/L 19-28)
Calcium, Serum 9.1 (mg/dL 8.7-10.2)
Protein, Total, Serum 6.9 (g/dL 6.0-8.5)
Albumin, Serum 4.5 (g/dL 3.5-5.5)
Globulin, Total 2.4 (g/dL 1.5-4.5)
A/G Ratio 1.9 (1.1-2.5)
Bilirubin, Total 0.7 (mg/dL 0.0-1.2)
*Alkaline Phosphatase, S 38 LOW IU/L 39-117
AST (SGOT) 21 (IU/L 0-40 )
ALT (SGPT) 17 (IU/L 0-44)

LH 4.4 (mIU/mL 1.7-8.6)
FSH 3.2 (mIU/mL 1.5-12.4 02)

Estradiol 21.9 (pg/mL 7.6-42.6)
Estrone, Serum 27 (pg/mL 12-72)

Male Female
0 - 5 years 18 - 53 19 - 46
6 - 7 years 17 - 48 17 - 44
8 - 9 years 20 - 54 31 - 70
10 - 11 years 21 - 49 28 - 68
12 - 14 years 17 - 44 57 - 140
Adult 12 - 72 See below
Female: Follicular Phase 37 - 138
Mid-cycle 60 - 229
Luteal Phase 50 - 114
Post Menopausal 14 – 103

Estriol, Serum <0.3 (ng/mL Not Estab).

Any questions or input, feel free to chime in.

 

[Oregongearhead]

I dont see your total testosterone here . You really need that so you have a baseline to go from . Your cholesterol looks high so they will be trying to put you on statins soon if your not on them already . I shunned them .
Estridiol looks good , nice & low . Liver enzymes look good , as well as Bilirubin .
On the kidney side your BUN is high normal , but your creatinine is normal ; alot of us weightlifters have elevated BUN and creatinine .
Your hematocrit is low which is good because once you start cycling it will go up alot . All in all not too bad a blood test except for the cholesterol , which is better than mine.

 

[PIP427]

Dam, all my preparation in typing this up and I forgot to post my Total test. I had this one done prior to these labs by my Dr. My results came back at 600.

 

[cvictorg]

After doing weeks of research on this forum and after much appreciated input from others, I decided I was going to get a full panel of labs done as a base line prior to starting a cycle. Glad I did, some of my levels are off/ High.
Cholesterol is high, that I understand. But some of my blood count levels are high, so I will have to send this over to my Dr, and have him go over it with me.

Stats
Male, Age 42. 6Ft 180 lbs. (no more ice cream for me)
B/F. I will guesstimate 17%?? (I am fairly thin, its mainly my gut)

Test & Price
NMR LIPO Profile $127.00
CBC w/diff & plt $29.00
Estrogen Fractionated Pkg Hormone $159.00
Comprehensive Metabolic Panel (CMP-14) $29.00
FSH & LH (Hormone) $69.00

* LDL-P ****** 1828 (high)
Low < 1000
Moderate 1000 - 1299
Borderline-High 1300 - 1599
High 1600 - 2000
Very High > 2000

* LDL-C ***** 165 (high)
Optimal < 100
Above optimal 100 - 129
Borderline 130 – 159
High 160 - 189
Very high > 189

HDL-C ********** 59 (mg/dL >=40)
Triglycerides **********41 (mg/dL <150)
* Cholesterol, Total******** 232 HIGH ( mg/dL <200)
* HDL-P (Total)****** 29.3 LOW (umol/L >= 30.5)
* Small LDL-P***** 695 HIGH (nmol/L <= 527)
LDL Size ******* 21.3 ( nm > 20.5 01)

Large VLDL-P **** (< 0.7 nmol/L <= 2.7)
*Small LDL-P *** 695 HIGH (nmol/L <= 527)
*Large HDL-P *** 3.2 LOW (umol/L >= 4.8)

LDL Size ** 21.3 ( nm >= 20.8)
* HDL Size ** 8.6 LOW (nm >= 9.2)

LP-IR Score ** 36 (<= 45)
The LP-IR Score combines the information from Large VLDL-P,
Small LDL-P, Large HDL-P, VLDL Size, LDL Size and HDL Size
to give improved assessment of insulin resistance and
diabetes risk.

CBP 14 Test
WBC *** 3.5 (x10E3/uL) (3.4-10.8 )
RBC *** 4.28 (x10E6/uL) (4.14-5.80)
Hemoglobin *** 14.2 (g/dL) (12.6-17.7)
Hematocrit *** 42.5 (%) (37.5-51.0)
* MCV *** 99 HIGH (fL) (79-97)
* MCH *** 33.2 HIGH (pg ) (26.6-33.0)
MCHC*** 33.4 (g/dL) (31.5-35.7)

RDW*** 13.8 (% 12.3-15.4)
Platelets 174 (x10E3/uL 155-379)
Neutrophils 46 (% 40-74)
Lymphs 45 (% 14-46)
Monocytes 8 (% 4-12)
Eos 1 (% 0-5)
Basos 0 (% 0-3)
Immature Cells None
Neutrophils (Absolute) 1.6 (x10E3/uL 1.4-7.0 )
Lymphs (Absolute) 1.6 (x10E3/uL 0.7-3.1)
Monocytes(Absolute) 0.3 (x10E3/uL 0.1-0.9)
Eos (Absolute) 0.0 ( x10E3/uL 0.0-0.4)
Baso (Absolute) 0.0 ( x10E3/uL 0.0-0.2)
Immature Granulocytes (0 % 0-2)
Immature Grans (Abs) 0.0 (x10E3/uL 0.0-0.1)

Glucose, Serum 97 (mg/dL 65-99)
BUN 20 (mg/dL 6-24)
Creatinine, Serum 0.94 (mg/dL 0.76-1.27
eGFR If NonAfricn Am 100 (mL/min/1.73 >59)
eGFR If Africn Am 115 (mL/min/1.73 >59)
*BUN/Creatinine Ratio 21 HIGH (9-20)
Sodium, Serum 140 ( mmol/L 134-144)
Potassium, Serum 4.1( mmol/L 3.5-5.2)
Chloride, Serum 102 ( mmol/L 97-108)
Carbon Dioxide, Total 25( mmol/L 19-28)
Calcium, Serum 9.1 (mg/dL 8.7-10.2)
Protein, Total, Serum 6.9 (g/dL 6.0-8.5)
Albumin, Serum 4.5 (g/dL 3.5-5.5)
Globulin, Total 2.4 (g/dL 1.5-4.5)
A/G Ratio 1.9 (1.1-2.5)
Bilirubin, Total 0.7 (mg/dL 0.0-1.2)
*Alkaline Phosphatase, S 38 LOW IU/L 39-117
AST (SGOT) 21 (IU/L 0-40 )
ALT (SGPT) 17 (IU/L 0-44)

LH 4.4 (mIU/mL 1.7-8.6)
FSH 3.2 (mIU/mL 1.5-12.4 02)

Estradiol 21.9 (pg/mL 7.6-42.6)
Estrone, Serum 27 (pg/mL 12-72)

Male Female
0 - 5 years 18 - 53 19 - 46
6 - 7 years 17 - 48 17 - 44
8 - 9 years 20 - 54 31 - 70
10 - 11 years 21 - 49 28 - 68
12 - 14 years 17 - 44 57 - 140
Adult 12 - 72 See below
Female: Follicular Phase 37 - 138
Mid-cycle 60 - 229
Luteal Phase 50 - 114
Post Menopausal 14 – 103

Estriol, Serum <0.3 (ng/mL Not Estab).

Any questions or input, feel free to chime in.

The highlighted numbers are not good at all. Also - your non HDL-C (TC-HDL) is very high @ 173 (232-59) - ideally it should be <120
First - what is your daily diet like? What did you eat yesterday or today?

You should also consider running a full thyroid panel as well.

Let's start there.

 

[Oregongearhead]

Dam, all my preparation in typing this up and I forgot to post my Total test. I had this one done prior to these labs by my Dr. My results came back at 600.

600ng natty TT is great , no TRT needed for you . Do a proper PCT after your cycle and you should be GTG . lol

 

[PIP427]

I dont see your total testosterone here . You really need that so you have a baseline to go from . Your cholesterol looks high so they will be trying to put you on statins soon if your not on them already . I shunned them .
Estridiol looks good , nice & low . Liver enzymes look good , as well as Bilirubin .
On the kidney side your BUN is high normal , but your creatinine is normal ; alot of us weightlifters have elevated BUN and creatinine .
Your hematocrit is low which is good because once you start cycling it will go up alot . All in all not too bad a blood test except for the cholesterol , which is better than mine.

How about
* MCV *** 99 HIGH (fL) (79-97)
* MCH *** 33.2 HIGH (pg ) (26.6-33.0)
Have you ever had your's checked? This is the one that has my attention at the moment.

To help with my cholesterol I have changed my diet, added fiber Sol and fish oil / Omega3 caps. And I will stop eating the dam ice cream.

 

[PIP427]

The highlighted numbers are not good at all.
First - what is your daily diet like? What did you eat yesterday or today?

You should also consider running a full thyroid pane as well.

Let's start there.

Diet is better sense the summer, but only as of late (past 2 months) have I begun to truly eat better. Chicken only, no more bowls of cereal prior to bed. Broccoli, brown rice with some chicken stock, sliced sweet potato’s, celery with peanut butter made with Flax Seed, Yogurt, Vitamins etc.
Doing cardio every day (20 min on the elliptical in the morning before work)

 

[Oregongearhead]

MCV is your red blood cell size , it varies sometimes but your not far that out of range ; your platelet count is low normal , but normal .
MCH measure how much hemoglobin is in each red blood cell, again not that far out of whack .
Blood chemistry really does varie from day to day and time of day .
Your main concern is the cholesterol , which could really go out of range when you cycle ; mine actually improves (OK some of it)

PS - Eat oatmeal every morning !! Nothing improved my cholesterol profile like oatmeal .

 

[PIP427]

600ng natty TT is great , no TRT needed for you . Do a proper PCT after your cycle and you should be GTG . lol

For my first cycle I am thinking of 250 sust and 200mg deca a week for 6 to 8 weeks.
(250 sust amps and 100mg deca amps)
My goal is to build up the muscle around my knee caps. Of course, any other gains will be welcomed during this process. For PCT I have plenty of options on hand.

 

[Oregongearhead]

For my first cycle I am thinking of 250 sust and 200mg deca a week for 6 to 8 weeks.
(250 sust amps and 100mg deca amps)
My goal is to build up the muscle around my knee caps. Of course, any other gains will be welcomed during this process. For PCT I have plenty of options on hand.

Squats . And more squats . Drop the deca and just run testosterone 400/500 mg/wk . Your first cycle you want to be just testosterone .Deca just complicates things , thats for later.....trust me on this one. You want to see how your body reacts to just one hormone . You'll get enough just from the test.

 

[cvictorg]

I would avoid doing a cycle until you get the LDL-P, small LDL-P and high non HDL-C under control.

Do you have any family history of heart disease?

Also - what is your blood pressure like?

"Chicken only, no more bowls of cereal prior to bed. Broccoli, brown rice with some chicken stock, sliced sweet potato’s, celery with peanut butter made with Flax Seed, Yogurt, Vitamins etc."

Can you estimate the calories, protein you consume daily?

If not try using
CRON-O-Meter: Track nutrition & count calories

 

[PIP427]

I have a fair amount of pain behind my knees and due to the rice krispies in my knee caps, squats are a no-go. Perhaps natural body weight.
Was hoping the Deca would help with the tendons and joint pain.

Last time I did a cycle was just over 15 yrs ago, had no clue what I was doing. 250 sust ready jets, man what a waste that was

 

[PIP427]

I would avoid doing a cycle until you get the LDL-P, small LDL-P and high non HDL-C under control.

Do you have any family history of heart disease?

Also - what is your blood pressure like?

"Chicken only, no more bowls of cereal prior to bed. Broccoli, brown rice with some chicken stock, sliced sweet potato’s, celery with peanut butter made with Flax Seed, Yogurt, Vitamins etc."

Can you estimate the calories, protein you consume daily?

If not try using
CRON-O-Meter: Track nutrition & count calories

No history of heart disease, BP 110 to 115 over 58 on average. Resting heart rate 52 on avg. Sometimes 48. Was never a runner, but very active.

 

[Oregongearhead]

No history of heart disease, BP 110 to 115 over 58 on average. Resting heart rate 52 on avg. Sometimes 48. Was never a runner, but very active.

Thats excellent , I'm a good 20 points higher than you . But you might want to listen to Victor ^^^^ , hes the cholesterol expert here . I'm just a renegade TRT'er who dont listen to his doctor much....[)]

 

[cvictorg]

No history of heart disease, BP 110 to 115 over 58 on average. Resting heart rate 52 on avg. Sometimes 48. Was never a runner, but very active.

Here's the problem - your triglycerides are <100 which should mean that your particles should be large and buoyant HOWEVER you have high small LDL-P

You have high non HDL-C due to your high LDL-C

These are problematical. If you have no family history of high cholesterol then you have 2 options

1) Dietary modification
2) Using statins

What do you think?

 

[PIP427]

Dietary modification's, no question about it. I can easily set a plan of action and execute... no concerns there. However If I am not able to achieve a healthier LDL and so forth then I will consult with my Dr. and discuss satins.
I was the kid in the neighborhood that could eat an entire apple pie and half a gallon of ice cream in a day and not show a sign of gaining weight. This is no longer the case. I am confident it has been my eating habits that has caused the increase in bad cholesterol. Will be stocking up on Oatmeal and some other cholesterol reducing foods later this week. No apple pie tomorrow

Also, thank you for the link on: CRON-O-Meter: Track nutrition & count calories

 

[Ravtech]

I have a fair amount of pain behind my knees and due to the rice krispies in my knee caps, squats are a no-go. Perhaps natural body weight.
Was hoping the Deca would help with the tendons and joint pain.

Last time I did a cycle was just over 15 yrs ago, had no clue what I was doing. 250 sust ready jets, man what a waste that was

I also have pain in my knees and the best way I've found to start building up that muscle is doing Hindu squats. Also for cardio try doing a bike with the seat too low to get your knees going down past 90* under resistance.

 

[cvictorg]

Dietary modification's, no question about it. I can easily set a plan of action and execute... no concerns there. However If I am not able to achieve a healthier LDL and so forth then I will consult with my Dr. and discuss satins.
I was the kid in the neighborhood that could eat an entire apple pie and half a gallon of ice cream in a day and not show a sign of gaining weight. This is no longer the case. I am confident it has been my eating habits that has caused the increase in bad cholesterol. Will be stocking up on Oatmeal and some other cholesterol reducing foods later this week. No apple pie tomorrow

Also, thank you for the link on: CRON-O-Meter: Track nutrition & count calories

So start doing research on dietary modifications to reduce LDL

Here's a very interesting case history
http://www.lecturepad.org/dayspring/lipidaholics/pdf/LipidaholicsCase291.pdf

You might research

McDougall Program & Dr. McDougall's Health and Medical Center
The Ornish Spectrum
Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease

I'm not saying you have to go totally vegan/vegetarian but the research seems to indicate diets with <10% saturated fat do work

http://20www.ornishspectrum.com/wp-content/uploads/can-lifestyle-changes-reverse-coronary-heart-disease.pdf

JAMA Network | JAMA | Intensive Lifestyle Changes for Reversal of Coronary Heart Disease

http://www.pbs.org/saf/1104/features/castelli.htm
2011-02-18 William Castelli MD Heart Disease Risk, Cholesterol and Lipids in 2011: What Do We Really Know? | Interview Transcripts

 

[PIP427]

Appreciate your time, and for posting the links. I will look these over this weekend and take all into consideration as I plan a healthier diet. Looks like it takes about 6 weeks to notice a solid change in your cholesterol.

 

[cvictorg]

Twenty questions on atherosclerosis

Of the various atherosclerotic risk factors, which one is an absolute prerequisite for development of atherosclerosis?

If the LDL cholesterol level is <100— and possibly it needs to be <80 mg/dL—the other previously mentioned risk factors in and of themselves are not associated with atherosclerosis. In other words, if the serum total cholesterol is 90 to 140 mg/dL, there is no evidence that cigarette smoking, systemic hypertension, diabetes mellitus, inactivity, or obesity produces atherosclerotic plaques. Hypercholesterolemia is the only direct atherosclerotic risk factor; the others are indirect. If, however, the total cholesterol level is >150 mg/dL and the LDL cholesterol is >100 mg/dL, the other risk factors clearly accelerate atherosclerosis.

Because it is infrequently a disease related to defective genetic makeup, we should all try to get our serum LDL cholesterol levels down to the point where atherosclerotic plaques do not form, and that level is clearly <100 mg/dL and maybe <70 or 80 mg/dL. My goal for both primary and secondary prevention is the same—namely, serum LDL cholesterol <100 mg/dL.

http://www.legacy.library.ucsf.edu/documentStore/h/i/p/hip07e00/Ship07e00.pdf

In summary, in my view there are not 10 atherosclrotic risk factors, there is only 1-and that is an elevated(> 150 mg/dl) serum total cholesterol level and specifically an elevated serum LDL-cholesterol level. A low (<35 mg/dl) HDL-cholesterol level in the presence of an elevated LDL-cholesterol level probably should be viewed as an additive atherosclerotic risk factor. Male sex, family history of coronary events before age 55 in a parent or sibling, cigarette smoking, systemic hypertension, diabetes mellitus, and severe obesity are best viewed as cholesterol-dependent atherosclerotic risk factors and not in themselves atherogenic in the absence of a serum total cholesterol level > 150 mg/dl. Atherosclerotic events (coronary, cerebrovascular and peripheral), although predictive of future atherosclerotic events, are not by definition true atherosclerotic risk factors and they should not be viewed as such. Nevertheless, all of the aforementioned cholesterol-dependent atherosclerotic risk factors take effect when the serum total cholesterol level is > 150 mg/dl, and because 95% of Americans >-~O years of age have total cholesterol levels > 150 mg/dl, these indirect risk factors need to be dealt with and managed accordingly

Facts and ideas from anywhere

This is not to say that cigarette smoking, elevated blood pressure, diabetes mellitus, obesity, and inactivity are not harmful—of course they are—but if the serum LDL cholesterol is <60 mg/dL or the serum total cholesterol is <150 mg/dL, there is no evidence (with extremely rare exceptions) in my view that these other “risk factors” cause atherosclerosis.

And, yes, some blood inflammatory markers are commonly elevated in persons with atherosclerotic events. But, many patients have atherosclerotic events when the high-sensitivity (hs) C-reactive protein (CRP) is normal (<1 mg/dL), and patients with the highest levels of hs-CRP (e.g., rheumatoid arthritis, systemic lupus erythematosus) have only a slightly higher frequency of atherosclerotic events than do others of similar age and sex with normal or near-normal hs-CRP levels. The same principle, however, does not apply to cholesterol. The patients with the highest serum levels of total and LDL cholesterol, namely those patients with homozygous familial hypercholesterolemia, have an incredibly high frequency of atherosclerotic events, and they have them at very young ages—teenage years. And patients with the next highest serum LDL cholesterol levels, namely those with heterozygous familial hypercholesterolemia, have atherosclerotic events often in their 30s and 40s.

Of two people of similar age and sex and similar serum LDL cholesterol levels, say 130 mg/dL, the patient whose systolic systemic blood pressure is 170 mm Hg versus the other patient with a systolic pressure of 115 mm Hg is at much greater risk of an atherosclerotic event. And cigarette smoking may work in a similar fashion. Nevertheless, if the serum LDL cholesterol is <60 mg/dL, maybe <50 mg/dL, irrespective of the degree of blood pressure elevation or the number of cigarettes smoked daily, atherosclerotic plaques do not develop.

It is time to move on from a goal “to decrease risk” to a goal “to prevent plaques”. To do so requires much lower levels of LDL cholesterol than advocated by the guideline publications. My goal for all individuals worldwide is a serum LDL cholesterol at least <100 mg/dL and ideally <60 mg/dL. The beauty of the JUPITER trial is that it dramatically demonstrates what incredible reductions in events can be produced in a short period of time (<2 years) by reducing the LDL cholesterol by 50% even when starting from a level considered by many to be normal (<130 mg). The mean level (108 mg/dL) might be considered “good” or even “great” by many physicians, but lowering it to 55 mg/dL (by rosuvastatin 20 mg/dL) decreased all events by >40%, indeed nearly 50%, including a reduction in stroke by 48%! This trial beautifully shows that we can drastically reduce or even prevent atherosclerotic events and expensive procedures by taking a single pill every day and do it safely. Most Americans will not reach the JUPITER treatment levels (LDL cholesterol 55 mg/dL) by diet alone. The statin drugs have been ingested by humans now for nearly 30 years, and their safety and thus benefit/risk ratio may be the best of any proven useful medication. The toxicity resides mainly in atherosclerosis, not in the drug.

Have a healthy and happy Thanksgiving