MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
psychological techniques
- Thread starter dave_r
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I've used a variety of techniques in weightlifting and other sports over the years. Anything from visualization, pre-ordered setup routine, etc... You do need to be careful with emotional arrousal as it is draining to the CNS when used in training - an independent factor from the actual weight being lifted. Also note that one doesn't need to act like a dingbat but one can become emotionally arroused and outwardly appear very calm and focused.
cool
I personally favour visualisation techniques, have found them beneficial for myself and clients in the past.
Good point about arousal techniques! its not uncommon for olympic lifters to monitor heart rate in training, pre-lift. once HR exceeds a certain point the lift isnt counted as training weight. Obviously its pointless to monitor HR during a lift.
I challenge anyone here to attempt to deadlift or squat their normal weights without any emotional arousal!!!
I would be interested to hear if grizzly uses any visualisation/psychological methods!!!
I personally favour visualisation techniques, have found them beneficial for myself and clients in the past.
Good point about arousal techniques! its not uncommon for olympic lifters to monitor heart rate in training, pre-lift. once HR exceeds a certain point the lift isnt counted as training weight. Obviously its pointless to monitor HR during a lift.
I challenge anyone here to attempt to deadlift or squat their normal weights without any emotional arousal!!!
I would be interested to hear if grizzly uses any visualisation/psychological methods!!!
You'll find a number of programs, specifically OLs have a lifter work up to an "unpsyched" max in a lift (i.e. no or minimal emotional arrousal). I've seen this used in all variants of major exercises except for the DL but the C&J, snatch, and full squat certainly.
HR is probably somewhat positively correlated but I wouldn't think it to be a 1:1 type indicator. For myself, my heartrate prelift is fairly flat but inside I might be 100% focused and determined with CNS charged to the max. Arrousal is kind of a qualitative thing and tough to monitor or quantify so you wind up telling everyone to lift without psyching and then over time see exactly what each lifter can tolerate on an individual basis. Some can't seem to avoid it with heavy weight and tend not to be able to do it very often. Others have little issue and can repeat much more frequently.
Here's the JS182 on psyching and emotional arrousal from the sticky: https://thinksteroids.com/community/posts/55
BTW - dave_r, you have good posts and knowledge, welcome to the board.
HR is probably somewhat positively correlated but I wouldn't think it to be a 1:1 type indicator. For myself, my heartrate prelift is fairly flat but inside I might be 100% focused and determined with CNS charged to the max. Arrousal is kind of a qualitative thing and tough to monitor or quantify so you wind up telling everyone to lift without psyching and then over time see exactly what each lifter can tolerate on an individual basis. Some can't seem to avoid it with heavy weight and tend not to be able to do it very often. Others have little issue and can repeat much more frequently.
Here's the JS182 on psyching and emotional arrousal from the sticky: https://thinksteroids.com/community/posts/55
BTW - dave_r, you have good posts and knowledge, welcome to the board.
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cool
Great Stuff cow your providing some good thought provoking information! I was hoping someone would contribute, sports psychology is undervalued in the bodybuilding community which is fixated on quick fix approaches to getting big, as a result less glamorous and more scientific methodologies tend to get neglected and ignored.
I hope that people who follow the board can learn from you.
It is accpeted scientific fact that an optimal level of arousal is neccessary to produce supramaximal performance. Reaching an optimal level of arousal (not neccessarily a heightened one!!) helps to innervate a greater number of motor units (fopr those reading, see the grip thread and my comment about bar 'crushing')which correspondingly may lead to larger loads being lifted.
Note about the sympathetic nervous system:
the sympathetic nervous system helps the body to prepare for situations that require fight /flight, typified responses include increased Heart rate, blood pressure etc. Sympathetic stimulus (or stress, lets say) results in an increase in production of the catecholamines, adrenaline (epinephrine to you Amercans!!) and nor adrenaline (Nor- epinephrine!). Stimulants (Like eca etc) often mimic these effects.
Monitoring heart rate often indicates if a lifter has begun to stimulate the sympathetic nervous system and begun the fight'flight response (as previously mentioned, heart rate increases are a typical indicator).
Now, since my return I noticed that there has been another thread about HIT (why is it that HIt hangs around like a fart, festering and repulsing some while others find it entertaining!!!)
HIt style training is based on maximal intensity taken to complete fatigue which relies heavily on Heightened states of arousal (Mentzer was a big fan of amphetamines by the way!!). HIT is typified by increasing rest periods between concurrent sessions. See where this is going anyone? Many HIT style trainees cannot distinguish between peripheral and central fatigue induced by the heightened levels of emotional arousal to potentiate their lifts. Simply put, CNS burnout as a result from continual psyching up!!
By avoiding stimulating the CNS you may be able to prevent central fatigue (fatigue of the central nervous system) and prevent OTS (over training syndrome).
Hmm kinda strayed off topic there!!
Cow, thank you for the kind words and it is good to be here.
Great Stuff cow your providing some good thought provoking information! I was hoping someone would contribute, sports psychology is undervalued in the bodybuilding community which is fixated on quick fix approaches to getting big, as a result less glamorous and more scientific methodologies tend to get neglected and ignored.
I hope that people who follow the board can learn from you.
It is accpeted scientific fact that an optimal level of arousal is neccessary to produce supramaximal performance. Reaching an optimal level of arousal (not neccessarily a heightened one!!) helps to innervate a greater number of motor units (fopr those reading, see the grip thread and my comment about bar 'crushing')which correspondingly may lead to larger loads being lifted.
Note about the sympathetic nervous system:
the sympathetic nervous system helps the body to prepare for situations that require fight /flight, typified responses include increased Heart rate, blood pressure etc. Sympathetic stimulus (or stress, lets say) results in an increase in production of the catecholamines, adrenaline (epinephrine to you Amercans!!) and nor adrenaline (Nor- epinephrine!). Stimulants (Like eca etc) often mimic these effects.
Monitoring heart rate often indicates if a lifter has begun to stimulate the sympathetic nervous system and begun the fight'flight response (as previously mentioned, heart rate increases are a typical indicator).
Now, since my return I noticed that there has been another thread about HIT (why is it that HIt hangs around like a fart, festering and repulsing some while others find it entertaining!!!)
HIt style training is based on maximal intensity taken to complete fatigue which relies heavily on Heightened states of arousal (Mentzer was a big fan of amphetamines by the way!!). HIT is typified by increasing rest periods between concurrent sessions. See where this is going anyone? Many HIT style trainees cannot distinguish between peripheral and central fatigue induced by the heightened levels of emotional arousal to potentiate their lifts. Simply put, CNS burnout as a result from continual psyching up!!
By avoiding stimulating the CNS you may be able to prevent central fatigue (fatigue of the central nervous system) and prevent OTS (over training syndrome).
Hmm kinda strayed off topic there!!
Cow, thank you for the kind words and it is good to be here.
So back on topic - visualization can be a huge benefit particularly for big or difficult lifts. I really like to employ a constant setup routine to focus myself. Not joking at all, weightlifting is similar to golf in that you are not responding to an action (i.e. having to return a tennis ball) but are initiating the action. Clear mind, no distraction, and total focus are all required to initiate and perform optimally. This is very important for golf because the level of precision and technique required to produce a good shot is so high but it is equally applied to weightlifting. In making a constant pre-lift routine you habitually condition yourself to assume the required mental state for top performance. It need be nothing robotic or fancy but checking the load on the bar, standing back to visualize, taking a breath, approaching the bar, taking grip, lowering into position etc... The more you work on it the better one becomes until it is second nature and it serves you without any thought or deliberate effort.
I don't imagine any of this is really news to you but I'm sure someone will read it and realize that it can help them.
I don't imagine any of this is really news to you but I'm sure someone will read it and realize that it can help them.
Grizzly
New Member
I might use such techniques sometimes. Nothing dramatic, though. Occasionally, I'll envision my arms as pistons or the wheels on a train when I'm benching so that I can sort of become more machinelike. That's about it, I'd say. I'm not much of one for "getting psyched up". In the gym I take a few deep breaths, tell myself that it's a piece of cake and then grab the bar and move it places. Before a fight I usually lay around for the whole night, then I stretch and do a small amount of mitt work, nothing strenuous, and then I go out and get it on, as they say.
CyniQ
New Member
Mentzer was also a big Ayn Rand fan, right? What a freak! 
I have never been able to successfully "psych" myself up. In fact I find that whenever I try. I get the opposite results I was hoping for. I do have a little pre-lift routine though. I do a couple of "pump-fakes". Like if I'm squatting. I get under the bar, grip it, twist my hands on it, bounce up and down a little under the bar as if I was initiating a squat while taking short quick breaths. Then I go without thinking. I try hard to clear my head. I hardly ever work out with a partner, but when I do, they usually drive me crazy yelling stupid shit like, "Easy Money! You got this! GetBig.com! Go Big or go home!" LMAO. I used to have a partner that was alway yelling "GetBig.com!" It's so deeply ingrained that I say it to myself sometimes even now.
I have never been able to successfully "psych" myself up. In fact I find that whenever I try. I get the opposite results I was hoping for. I do have a little pre-lift routine though. I do a couple of "pump-fakes". Like if I'm squatting. I get under the bar, grip it, twist my hands on it, bounce up and down a little under the bar as if I was initiating a squat while taking short quick breaths. Then I go without thinking. I try hard to clear my head. I hardly ever work out with a partner, but when I do, they usually drive me crazy yelling stupid shit like, "Easy Money! You got this! GetBig.com! Go Big or go home!" LMAO. I used to have a partner that was alway yelling "GetBig.com!" It's so deeply ingrained that I say it to myself sometimes even now.
Yes, Mentzer was a huge Rand fan. Perhaps Grizz should start training HIT style.
As far as psychological techniques go, there have actually been studies shown that simply imagining you are exercising your muscles can strengthen them. One performed by the Cleveland Clinic Foundation in Ohio, for example, divided 30 healthy adults into three groups: one group imagined using their little finger muscle, another group imagined using their elbow flexor muscle (as the study said), and the third group did no imaginary exercise. The exercises were performed for 15 min/day, 5 days/wk for 12 wks. The subjects were asked to think about the exercise intensely, and think about moving the muscle as hard as possible. Instrumentation was used to ensure that the subjects did not actually move the muscles. Muscle strength was measured before, during, and after the sessions. The experimental groups strength increased by an average of 35% in the first group and 13.4% in the second, while the control had no increase.
The researchers also found highly visible brain signals with EEG's performed while the "exercisers" were doing the mental exercises. Post-activity brain scans found greater and more focused activity in the brain's prefrontal cortex when compared with scans taken before training.
The findings suggest that perhaps the participants' ability to gain strength was due to improvements in the brain's ability to signal muscle.
This is nothing that new, and as Mel Siff noted in Supertraining, while this may work, it is probably better for such techniques to be used during training. Also, while this study claims to have eliminated muscle action, Basmajian in "Muscles Alive" found via EMG that just thinking about movement in muscles can produce activity in the muscles in advance of movement (feedforward process). Also, it would be nice to see if one can get stronger in a more complex exercise like the squat by just thinking about it, as strengthening my pinky just doesn't sound like fun. In the end, it will take A LOT more research before I give up the weight room in favor of just thinking about exercises though!
As far as psychological techniques go, there have actually been studies shown that simply imagining you are exercising your muscles can strengthen them. One performed by the Cleveland Clinic Foundation in Ohio, for example, divided 30 healthy adults into three groups: one group imagined using their little finger muscle, another group imagined using their elbow flexor muscle (as the study said), and the third group did no imaginary exercise. The exercises were performed for 15 min/day, 5 days/wk for 12 wks. The subjects were asked to think about the exercise intensely, and think about moving the muscle as hard as possible. Instrumentation was used to ensure that the subjects did not actually move the muscles. Muscle strength was measured before, during, and after the sessions. The experimental groups strength increased by an average of 35% in the first group and 13.4% in the second, while the control had no increase.
The researchers also found highly visible brain signals with EEG's performed while the "exercisers" were doing the mental exercises. Post-activity brain scans found greater and more focused activity in the brain's prefrontal cortex when compared with scans taken before training.
The findings suggest that perhaps the participants' ability to gain strength was due to improvements in the brain's ability to signal muscle.
This is nothing that new, and as Mel Siff noted in Supertraining, while this may work, it is probably better for such techniques to be used during training. Also, while this study claims to have eliminated muscle action, Basmajian in "Muscles Alive" found via EMG that just thinking about movement in muscles can produce activity in the muscles in advance of movement (feedforward process). Also, it would be nice to see if one can get stronger in a more complex exercise like the squat by just thinking about it, as strengthening my pinky just doesn't sound like fun. In the end, it will take A LOT more research before I give up the weight room in favor of just thinking about exercises though!
Plus. wheres the fun in sitting around and thinking about squating!!! LOL!!
Good post, hopefully some board members will have read your post and realised that by actively thinking about what they do can have a positive affect on training.
I think a lot of people indirectly utilise imagery and visualisation techniques without actually realising it.
Its like waht Cyn pointed out, he has a specific routine that he runs through before he lifts!!! How many of us do this? I know I do.
How many bodybuilders while training actively concentrate on pumping and gorging the muscle tissue with blood!
Do any of the member envision themsleves performing their lifts before they perform them? like a mental run-through so to speak?
Good post, hopefully some board members will have read your post and realised that by actively thinking about what they do can have a positive affect on training.
I think a lot of people indirectly utilise imagery and visualisation techniques without actually realising it.
Its like waht Cyn pointed out, he has a specific routine that he runs through before he lifts!!! How many of us do this? I know I do.
How many bodybuilders while training actively concentrate on pumping and gorging the muscle tissue with blood!
Do any of the member envision themsleves performing their lifts before they perform them? like a mental run-through so to speak?
Grizzly
New Member
Don't degrade Ms. Rand by associating her with that jackass. Or is it, don't elevate that jackass by associating him with Ms. Rand?
I'm glad you brought up the thinking about making a muscle thing, JDub. One of the largest humans I've ever been around is named Mel. He did some time in the joint. Funny story, actually. Anyhow, when he was in there he said he saw this massive dude and he asked him how he stayed so massive while incarcerated and only having access to sub standard equipment. The guy said he'd put whatever light amount of weight they had available on the bar and then PRETEND that it was a heavy weight. He assured Mel this was how one could stay huge in the pen.
I'm glad you brought up the thinking about making a muscle thing, JDub. One of the largest humans I've ever been around is named Mel. He did some time in the joint. Funny story, actually. Anyhow, when he was in there he said he saw this massive dude and he asked him how he stayed so massive while incarcerated and only having access to sub standard equipment. The guy said he'd put whatever light amount of weight they had available on the bar and then PRETEND that it was a heavy weight. He assured Mel this was how one could stay huge in the pen.
dave_r said:
You know, I did a lot of experimentation on this for a while and I am very selective as to when I use it and to the degree, granted there is nothing conclusive or scientific but I'll tell you why.
So I employed this technique as an experiment for every set from warmup to otherwise for an entire training cycle (I visuallized ever set and every rep in that set). In relating to J DUB's post above when I'd visuallize and think about coming out of the hole, I'd often find my legs twitching (basically my CNS is activated and firing just because I'm imagining it doing that). My thinking on this is that it gets the pathways open and potentiated so to speak (rough science eh?) before the actual lift so I am in effect practicing firing my CNS a bit (i.e. why does someone take a backswing in golf - why not just get into position at the top and let it rip downward).
Now, I think this has a strong effect in potentiating the subsequent recruitment in the lift itself. However, what am I doing in training - I'm effectively loading more CNS activity. Granted, I'll do this at times but doing it ever set and every rep, I really found myself to be abnormally drained a few weeks into the program where the volume and weights employed would not have ordinarily taken such a toll - I had yet to actually struggle with any of the weights on any set (I was basically scaling volume and intensity upward and hadn't even really started to load heavy yet).
To my thinking, overstimulation of the CNS - whether under weight or not taxes that system. Visualization can independently tax the CNS. Granted, it was a ton of visualization, but if it had no effect, it wouldn't matter in any quantity. I imagine psyching is also closely related since this also stimulates the CNS.
Like I said, I don't have anything conclusive on visualization and maybe it only relates to me or I'm just totally wrong, but I'd bet a lot of money that this is the case.
So what have I done, I regulate the amount of visualization used. Unless I need it, I won't use it. If I want to gain just a bit, I might do a non-intense visualization where I just passingly imagine myself performing the rep or a single lift rather than each rep of a 5 rep set. On those more challenging weights, I'll use it all the way and I think this has a very positive effect.
Obviously, the amount of visualization I use will alter the full prelift routine but I will generally first check the weights, and then use it as I"m standing behind the bar for whatever the appropriate time I need is, and then finish up. This works well for me and allows me flexability in the routine as I'm always concentrating myself when standing behind the bar so varying degrees of visualization blend nicely.
So that's a lot but I honestly believe it's very important and I haven't really ever shared that theory much out there but this the way I handle it.
thick
New Member
this is a good thread. It definitely has me aroused. I do visualize alot. Whether it is in softball or weightlifting.
Interesting,
I definitely believe there are many positives for using such techniques! And I have to agree cow with the CNS burnout (I have never tested it scientifically, or had the means to unfortunately). I belive it to relate to stress, granted there arer varying types of stress, eustress being positive, distress being negative!
I remember as a teenager when I began lifting, the immense pressure I put upon myself to gain, particularly in squats, I began to put so much pressure on myself i would be thinking about squatting days before I had to. I got to the point where I begain to dread my sessions, the mental rehearsals, anticipation and anxiety began to build and build, to the point where I no longer gained and began to overtrain.
Now this is my opinion, not scientific fact, but I believe stress to be one of the biggest killers of gains. the pressure we place on ourselves at work, home and in the gym (physically and emotionally) can have a negative impact on training. Remember emotional arousal (not that kind, thick!!!) has a physiological response!! and I'm sure everyone knows what cortisol is?
So, emotional arousal, psyching up and any other methodologies that induce a physiological stress response (fight or flight) can have a negative impact on training, Want to know if your stressed heres some info Ive cut and pasted you may like to read:
A brief list of signs would include:
Psychophysiological responses--muscles tight or aching, nervous tics like in the eyelid, hands unsteady, restlessness, touching yourself repeatedly, clearing your throat, frequent colds, pain, upset stomach, sweating, skin problem or itch, stiff posture, holding things tightly, strong startle response, headaches, high blood pressure, ulcers, heart disease, colitis, hemorrhoids, rashes, diarrhea, or frequent urination. These are somatoform disorders.
Behavioural-emotional signs--hyperactivity, walking or talking faster, in a hurry, irritation with delays, panicky, blushing, getting tongue-tangled, avoiding people, nervous habits (strumming fingers, eating, smoking, drinking), changing habits (becoming less or more organized), poor memory, confusion, stumbling over words, inattentiveness, excessive worrying, preoccupation with a certain situation, holding a grudge, irritability, crying, obsessive thoughts, compulsive actions, outbursts of emotions, bad dreams, apathy, etc. These are anxiety reactions.
Tiredness and lack of energy--general lack of interest, bored, watching TV and falling asleep, humourless, sleeping a lot, insomnia, can't get going, sighing, and moving slowly. (Or, sometimes, too much energy, as mentioned above.)
Anxiety intrudes on our consciousness or cognition in many ways: excessive preoccupation with the threatening person or situation, a desperate striving to understand why someone behaved the way they did, repeatedly obsessing about the upsetting event, unstoppable pangs of emotion (loss, anger, jealousy, guilt, longing, etc.), excessive vigilance and startle reactions, insomnia and bad dreams, aches and pains and other unwanted sensations. Plus all the words mentioned above in the introduction that reflect the subjective feelings we have, including nervous, up tight, scared, apprehensive, etc.
, In a future post (when I get a little more time!) I'll discuss ways of safely and effectively preparig your mind.
Cow and everyone else, thanks for the input!!!
I definitely believe there are many positives for using such techniques! And I have to agree cow with the CNS burnout (I have never tested it scientifically, or had the means to unfortunately). I belive it to relate to stress, granted there arer varying types of stress, eustress being positive, distress being negative!
I remember as a teenager when I began lifting, the immense pressure I put upon myself to gain, particularly in squats, I began to put so much pressure on myself i would be thinking about squatting days before I had to. I got to the point where I begain to dread my sessions, the mental rehearsals, anticipation and anxiety began to build and build, to the point where I no longer gained and began to overtrain.
Now this is my opinion, not scientific fact, but I believe stress to be one of the biggest killers of gains. the pressure we place on ourselves at work, home and in the gym (physically and emotionally) can have a negative impact on training. Remember emotional arousal (not that kind, thick!!!) has a physiological response!! and I'm sure everyone knows what cortisol is?
So, emotional arousal, psyching up and any other methodologies that induce a physiological stress response (fight or flight) can have a negative impact on training, Want to know if your stressed heres some info Ive cut and pasted you may like to read:
A brief list of signs would include:
Psychophysiological responses--muscles tight or aching, nervous tics like in the eyelid, hands unsteady, restlessness, touching yourself repeatedly, clearing your throat, frequent colds, pain, upset stomach, sweating, skin problem or itch, stiff posture, holding things tightly, strong startle response, headaches, high blood pressure, ulcers, heart disease, colitis, hemorrhoids, rashes, diarrhea, or frequent urination. These are somatoform disorders.
Behavioural-emotional signs--hyperactivity, walking or talking faster, in a hurry, irritation with delays, panicky, blushing, getting tongue-tangled, avoiding people, nervous habits (strumming fingers, eating, smoking, drinking), changing habits (becoming less or more organized), poor memory, confusion, stumbling over words, inattentiveness, excessive worrying, preoccupation with a certain situation, holding a grudge, irritability, crying, obsessive thoughts, compulsive actions, outbursts of emotions, bad dreams, apathy, etc. These are anxiety reactions.
Tiredness and lack of energy--general lack of interest, bored, watching TV and falling asleep, humourless, sleeping a lot, insomnia, can't get going, sighing, and moving slowly. (Or, sometimes, too much energy, as mentioned above.)
Anxiety intrudes on our consciousness or cognition in many ways: excessive preoccupation with the threatening person or situation, a desperate striving to understand why someone behaved the way they did, repeatedly obsessing about the upsetting event, unstoppable pangs of emotion (loss, anger, jealousy, guilt, longing, etc.), excessive vigilance and startle reactions, insomnia and bad dreams, aches and pains and other unwanted sensations. Plus all the words mentioned above in the introduction that reflect the subjective feelings we have, including nervous, up tight, scared, apprehensive, etc.
, In a future post (when I get a little more time!) I'll discuss ways of safely and effectively preparig your mind.
Cow and everyone else, thanks for the input!!!
CyniQ
New Member
dave_r said:
Boy, if touching yourself repeatedly is a sign of stress. Then some of these guys must really be stressed out.
