Question that's not TRT related: heart issues

[Weatherlite]

Guys, first off sorry I haven't been around for a while. I was up in Seattle area for almost 2 weeks visiting the in-laws.

Anyway, during these two weeks I get some disturbing news about my father...he's getting a heart catheter to check out his blood vessels. Basically he's been feeling out of breath for some time. He's been on BP meds for about 5 years. Norvast I think it was. Doc put him on a different med about 5 months ago in addition to the Norvast. BP came in just fine.

Well, now the new thing with the breath. Had a stress test and ECG done and doc said the lower half of his heart was not getting enough oxygen. So, catheter done and no blockages were found! Nothing! Not even plaque buildup. Cardiologist prescribes Lipitor though to help with the cholesterol. Get this though....he prescribes this even though he knows my father's cholesterol level is good!!!!! He has a total cholesterol of 185 with LDL of 112 and HDL of 73. Doc claimed that you're not healthy unless your LDL is below 70!!!!! My god!!! At that level you're shutting down some hormonal systems!!!

Well, "father knows best" right? Yeah, he told the doc to shove the statin. I advised him on some other cholesterol remedies so that he could at least lower his LDL's if he felt he needed to. Also advised him on fish oil but that was before I saw his HDL. Don't think he needs it!

Anyway, he then goes to see his regular doc and the doc gives him a clean bill of health even though there's still the problem of shortness of breath.

I've asked my mom to request a copy of all labs done by the doc. I figure the doc should have done at least the basic labs such as total red blood cells and hemoglobin. I just want to see if his blood can even carry the oxygen needed in the first place. Other than that we're kinda stuck. One doc gives bad advice and bad drugs and the other is oblivious to the problem. A cousin is a pharmacist and she has said that certain BP meds can have a tolerance built up over time and that once this tolerance is achieved there could be adverse side effects. So, my father is going to try coming off of the Norvast while monitoring BP several times throughout the day. If his shortness of breath goes away then we know what the culprit is.

However, I'd still like your opinions on this. There are a lot of educated people on here and your thoughts matter. Also, I'm worried my father may be in denial about his testosterone levels. Mom says the sex is great (gross thought to be honest with ya!!) but that it's only once a month now. Dad has also recently started showing signs and symptoms that are typical with hypogonadism. Problem is that he says he's fine and mom doesn't know how to go about getting the doc to do the testing while telling dad it's for something else....this is just to see if he has the problem. If he does he'd be told and then he'd decide if he wanted treatment or not. Hmm, so maybe there is a TRT component to this thread after all.

Ok, long post. Comments/ideas, etc etc?

Thanks!

 

[pmgamer18]

Hi I get short of breath and have found 2 reasons for this my T. levels are to low and I am very fatigued the other reason is not enough exercise. Some times I get sick and end up on my ass for a month or 2. The last time it was bronchus I had it last winter 4 times. I would see the Dr. it would go away for 2 weeks and then come back. Not being able to walk for exercise for that long when I would get up I would be out of breath. I am 61 over weight and there is nothing wrong with my heart. Once I start walking I start breathing better.
Phil

 

[cpeil2]

Have they ruled out congestive heart failure?


How about asthma? It's not unusual for people to develop asthma in middle age. He might oughta have pulmonary function tests to see if he has a respiratory problem.

 

[SWALE]

I would put him on 10 grams of long-chain omega-3's from fish oil. It has many other benefits besides lipid profile. Forget about the statin. Statins can cause heart failure by destroying CoQ10 (severly limits the cardiac cells ability to produce energy). Add at least 100mg of CoQ10 per day.

Check his T levels. You know the routine. TRT has been overwhelmingly proven to increase CO (cardiac output--the rel problem here) without stressing the heart.

And, oh, ya, try not to think about your parents having adult relations.

 

[mranak]

I don't mean to highjack this thread, but while we are on the subject, I have a question.

Quick history:

I have (had?) high cholesterol. Several CHOL in my teens were around 320 total, low HDL, but I never did anything about it. 314 just a few months ago (HDL up to 59 though). I brought it down from 314 to 213 by:

1) Drastically changing my diet. Went from Atkins to high protein, high carb (but low sugar), low fat diet
2) Added cardio. I used to hate cardio, but I'm doing it anyway and it gets easier every week.
3) Fish oils, but only 2g/day

I've added Lovastatin (brand name: Mevacor), prescribed 20mg/day.

questions:

1) Should I be taking more fish oil, such as the 10 grams mentioned by SWALE?

2) I was considering adding CoQ10 to the mix at a low dosage (like 30mg/day). Should I take 100mg/day of it? I was considering CoQ10 before I touched the statin, but I think the statin makes it even more important.

 

[Weatherlite]

He's had a full battery of tests and all came out normal. CHF is negative. Asthma though....that's something that I hadn't considered and I don't think his doc ever mentioned it.

He gets exercise daily-tries to walk several miles a day. He's 60 but still thinks he's 25! hehe

I've asked and poked and proded about his T levels and I don't know if they'll ever get em done. I hope so. I'll add in your recommendations though about the fish oil and CoQ-10. Guess the CoQ can't hurt even if he's not on the statin.

Adult relations....hehe yeah thanks SWALE.

mranak-IMO, yes you should be taking in more fish oil. From what I understand 100mg CoQ-10 is a minimum dose when taking a statin. That's how much my doc has me on with my Zocor.

Also, don't feel TOO awful bad about your cholesterol. You've done something to change it. I attended a briefing on health and exercise in which one patient was reported as having total cholesterol levels at over 1000!!!!!! Doc said that the lab technician could literally see the fat in the blood as he was extracting it! YUCK!

Thanks for the ideas guys. If you think of anything else lemme know.

 

[cpeil2]

1) Should I be taking more fish oil, such as the 10 grams mentioned by SWALE?

Based on my own experience, 2 gm/day of fish oil is nearly useless. I was taking 2 gm/d and my HDL actually went down. I have increased to 6 gm/d. Don't yet know what effect the dosage increase will have. This was a good brand of oil too, Nordic Naturals.

 

[earthdog]

If he doesn't have high cholesterol and there is no blockage, then why are you guys concerned with his cholesterol? I wonder how they know that the lower half of his heart isn't getting enough oxygen? Did he have an echocardiogram done (non-invasive ultrasound)? Any sign of valve malfunction? I don't think a catheterization would show a bad valve.

 

[Weatherlite]

If he doesn't have high cholesterol and there is no blockage, then why are you guys concerned with his cholesterol? I wonder how they know that the lower half of his heart isn't getting enough oxygen? Did he have an echocardiogram done (non-invasive ultrasound)? Any sign of valve malfunction? I don't think a catheterization would show a bad valve.

The cardiologist must've been smoking crack. That's the only reason anyone can figure on why he prescribed the statin. As for the lower half diagnosis....they did an echocardiogram and some other kind of test which measured the heart....think it was an ECG? Or is that short for echocardiogram? Maybe it was an EKG.

There were no signs of a bad valve. I don't know what methods they use to determine that but I was told they ruled it out.

I'm wondering also if they did a blood SpO2. Sounds stupid not to have done it but they're also not very forthcoming in what information they have. They're dragging their feet and giving excuses as to why they can't produce the lab results yet. I'm counseling my own parents on their patient rights and responsibilities! What a strange feeling!!!

 

[usufruct99]

"The cardiologist must've been smoking crack. That's the only reason anyone can figure on why he prescribed the statin. " My understanding is that there is a big push to prescribe statin to nearly anyone and that the way to do this is to lower the acceptable cholesterol level to around 180 or lower. Remember "high cholesterol" used to 240 for total cholesterol. I have seen articles recommending statins for children as young as 4. Also there is a movement to have statins available over the counter even though if taken by pregnent women it could lead to birth defects. Statins do lower rates of recurrent heart attacks for those who have suffered one already but I think the all-cause mortality is no different or even a little higher. Besides an increase risk of heart failure I think there is a high risk of developing cancers. Another risk is global amnesia. A former astronaut Graveline has written about his experiences with Lipitor and about the beneficial functions of cholesterol in his book Lipitor: thief of memory.

 

[SWALE]

Statins are being way, way, way overprescribed. It's terrible, really.

 

[earthdog]

they did an echocardiogram and some other kind of test which measured the heart....think it was an ECG? Or is that short for echocardiogram?

There is an echocardiogram, which is ultrasound taken from the outside of the chest. Then there is a TEE, or trans-esophageal echocardiogram (sp?) in which they put you "almost" under and then insert the ultrasound probe down your throat. This allows them to get a better view because they don't have to measure through so much tissue. If he had the TEE, that is done outpatient at a hospital.

It sounds to me like they missed something important. My suggestion is to get a second opinion from another cardiologist. Even the best make mistakes and overlook important things.