[rare brew] anyone ever made injectable stanolone (DHT) ?

[hammerheart]

Hello guise, I have some DHT base powder I intend to brew into an oil based injectable.

My idea is to brew it as if it were Test base, start with 100mg/ml concentration at ~20%BB and 2%BA, and add more oil/solvent if it crashes, hopefully I can get it stable at least at 50mg/ml.

This is also my first brew. I'll be using apricot kernel oil or GSO.

I was wondering whether anyone here already did this before... any input is welcome.

 

[Cail_Hoops]

Hello guise, I have some DHT base powder I intend to brew into an oil based injectable.

My idea is to brew it as if it were Test base, start with 100mg/ml concentration at ~20%BB and 2%BA, and add more oil/solvent if it crashes, hopefully I can get it stable at least at 50mg/ml.

This is also my first brew. I'll be using apricot kernel oil or GSO.

I was wondering whether anyone here already did this before... any input is welcome.

Apricot kernel oil?
Have you used that as a carrier before?

 

[MisterSuperGod]

i do believe someone here has brewed it.
@ickyrica was it you?

Edit: Nope. It was @Leancuisine that brewed it.
Check out his posts in the thread below, @hammerheart .

BrewPorn

 

[hammerheart]

Apricot kernel oil?
Have you used that as a carrier before?

Nope, it's my first brew. Was just an idea cause I know it's what many other good UGLs (for one, BP) brew their injectables with.

i do believe someone here has brewed it.
It was @Leancuisine that brewed it.
Check out his posts in the thread below, @hammerheart .

BrewPorn

Thanks that helped a ton, couldn't find anything via the search bar.

So duh, @Leancuisine, I read your DHT crashed at 50mg/ml, even. Sure , it can be heated up to a solution (what temp?) but it's an hassle to do every time. Have you ever succeeded to brew a more stable preparation, maybe by using a bit of EO, or different oil?

I see it seems to hold better at 30% BB... hows the PIP on that much of the solvent?

 

[MisterSuperGod]

Nope, it's my first brew. Was just an idea cause I know it's what many other good UGLs (for one, BP) brew their injectables with.



Thanks that helped a ton, couldn't find anything via the search bar.

So duh, @Leancuisine, I read your DHT crashed at 50mg/ml, even. Sure , it can be heated up to a solution (what temp?) but it's an hassle to do every time. Have you ever succeeded to brew a more stable preparation, maybe by using a bit of EO, or different oil?

I see it seems to hold better at 30% BB... hows the PIP on that much of the solvent?

LC left Meso a while back. Not sure if he still stops in to read or check PMs though? Hopefully he will and can give you some answers.

 

[master.on]

Hello guise, I have some DHT base powder I intend to brew into an oil based injectable.

My idea is to brew it as if it were Test base, start with 100mg/ml concentration at ~20%BB and 2%BA, and add more oil/solvent if it crashes, hopefully I can get it stable at least at 50mg/ml.

This is also my first brew. I'll be using apricot kernel oil or GSO.

I was wondering whether anyone here already did this before... any input is welcome.

DHT half-life is measured in MINUTES, not even hours or days so very frequent injections are needed.
Dihydrotestosterone - Wikipedia
Androstanolone - Wikipedia

So I'd make a water based injection to inject it at least 3x (and preferably 5x+) per day with an insulin syringe.

It is a bit soluble in ethanol
Ethanol 58 mg/mL
Dihydrotestosterone(DHT) | Androgen Receptor agonist | Read Reviews & Product Use Citations

So you can dissolve it at 50 mg/ml in ethanol.
For injecting, you can either draw just 1/10th of a ml with a slin syringe
then draw 9/10ths of BAC water with the same syringe, shake it a bit to mix well and inject.
Thus effectively 5 mg/ml water based.
I've tried several 10% alcohol injections and they ain't too painful as long as they're water-based and injected with a slin syringe.

You can also try premixing
10% 50 mg/ml DHT in ethanol
90% BAC water
but I don't know if that'll hold
if it doesn't, switch back to separate DHT-alcohol / BAC water vials.

You can also try transdermal DHT, but it's just nowhere near as effective as frequently injected DHT
Oil-based formulations suck for frequent injections.

You're on the right track
DHT is a little known pro secret
it won't win you the Olympia by itself
but you just got an inch closer.

P.S.
you can refill empty slin vials with DHT+alcohol and carry it along some pharma BAC water with you, for frequent injections
(check your state syringe laws, though).

 

[hammerheart]

DHT half-life is measured in MINUTES, not even hours or days so very frequent injections are needed.
Dihydrotestosterone - Wikipedia
Androstanolone - Wikipedia

So I'd make a water based injection to inject it at least 3x (and preferably 5x+) per day with an insulin syringe.

Yes it's about 50 minutes in the bloodstream. I was hoping though the muscle or adipose tissue could act as a depot of sorts and slower release a bit, so that 2x pins ED would be enough to obtain consistent, not saying stable, levels.

As for water based, to my understanding t/2 is affected by the size of the crystals. I've read an old study where particle size of 100-150 um was used and that appears to last weeks.

It is a bit soluble in ethanol
Ethanol 58 mg/mL
Dihydrotestosterone(DHT) | Androgen Receptor agonist | Read Reviews & Product Use Citations

So you can dissolve it at 50 mg/ml in ethanol.
For injecting, you can either draw just 1/10th of a ml with a slin syringe
then draw 9/10ths of BAC water with the same syringe, shake it a bit to mix well and inject.
Thus effectively 5 mg/ml water based.
I've tried several 10% alcohol injections and they ain't too painful as long as they're water-based and injected with a slin syringe.

You can also try premixing
10% 50 mg/ml DHT in ethanol
90% BAC water
but I don't know if that'll hold
if it doesn't, switch back to separate DHT-alcohol / BAC water vials.

Didn't know that, interesting indeed, though I don't fancy the idea of injecting ethanol (I'm a total non-drinker) and 5mg/ml doesn't sound much exciting, that would mean frequent yet high volume injections.

You can also try transdermal DHT, but it's just nowhere near as effective as frequently injected DHT
Oil-based formulations suck for frequent injections.

Transdermal DHT (andractim) I believe it's only useful for "localized" effect (ie. gyno), and not much systemic effects which I'm after. Since absorption from the skin is 15% at best, I would need to literally bathe in it to get enough into the bloodstream, and reach the receptors.

I already pin TE daily IM as TRT, with 30g slins. Kinda used to it.

You're on the right track
DHT is a little known pro secret
it won't win you the Olympia by itself
but you just got an inch closer.

P.S.
you can refill empty slin vials with DHT+alcohol and carry it along some pharma BAC water with you, for frequent injections
(check your state syringe laws, though).

Well I'm not after DHT as a PED it got therapeutic value to me. My issue is, my body fails to produce enough DHT, unless I use very high Test (cycle amount) and I crush aromatase with AI. And even then, it's very poor. Ofc dialing E2 down leads to an host of issues, hence it's not an option. I've been years on TRT, with very poor response and more sides than anything, which I've tracked down to poor DHT concentration in the very target tissues, and this I believe is preventing me from enjoying many of the benefits of TRT, especially androgenic aspects.

So duh, restoring DHT levels without using high test and the ancillaries is the main idea behind this project, however I do understand it's challenging to do with a sudden release base, but let's play the cards we are dealt.

I have even been researching about performing an esterification of the base myself, but I'll leave that for later, I would need a dedicated environment and proper equipment due to toxicity of the chemicals involved, it's not something I'm willing to attempt in my kitchen, so to speak.

 

[hammerheart]

LC left Meso a while back. Not sure if he still stops in to read or check PMs though? Hopefully he will and can give you some answers.

Well sorry to know then. I can't access his profile either, access is limited.

 

[master.on]

Yes it's about 50 minutes in the bloodstream. I was hoping though the muscle or adipose tissue could act as a depot of sorts and slower release a bit, so that 2x pins ED would be enough to obtain consistent, not saying stable, levels.

As for water based, to my understanding t/2 is affected by the size of the crystals. I've read an old study where particle size of 100-150 um was used and that appears to last weeks.



Didn't know that, interesting indeed, though I don't fancy the idea of injecting ethanol (I'm a total non-drinker) and 5mg/ml doesn't sound much exciting, that would mean frequent yet high volume injections.



Transdermal DHT (andractim) I believe it's only useful for "localized" effect (ie. gyno), and not much systemic effects which I'm after. Since absorption from the skin is 15% at best, I would need to literally bathe in it to get enough into the bloodstream, and reach the receptors.

I already pin TE daily IM as TRT, with 30g slins. Kinda used to it.



Well I'm not after DHT as a PED it got therapeutic value to me. My issue is, my body fails to produce enough DHT, unless I use very high Test (cycle amount) and I crush aromatase with AI. And even then, it's very poor. Ofc dialing E2 down leads to an host of issues, hence it's not an option. I've been years on TRT, with very poor response and more sides than anything, which I've tracked down to poor DHT concentration in the very target tissues, and this I believe is preventing me from enjoying many of the benefits of TRT, especially androgenic aspects.

So duh, restoring DHT levels without using high test and the ancillaries is the main idea behind this project, however I do understand it's challenging to do with a sudden release base, but let's play the cards we are dealt.

I have even been researching about performing an esterification of the base myself, but I'll leave that for later, I would need a dedicated environment and proper equipment due to toxicity of the chemicals involved, it's not something I'm willing to attempt in my kitchen, so to speak.

See if you can find this full study:
Absorption of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) after its intramuscular administration - ScienceDirect
Absorption of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) after its intramuscular administration. - PubMed - NCBI

too see if:
1 they used a solution or just a suspension as
Initial sarticle size is meaningless once fully dissolved
so I guess it was a water suspension, not an oil solution.
2 see if IM injections really increased half-life.

Why not some Proviron for DHT-like effects?
You can even brew it injectable for 100% instead of oral 3% bioavailability.
Injectable Proviron recipe from Schering Ag

 

[hammerheart]

See if you can find this full study:
Absorption of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) after its intramuscular administration - ScienceDirect
Absorption of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) after its intramuscular administration. - PubMed - NCBI

too see if:
1 they used a solution or just a suspension as
Initial sarticle size is meaningless once fully dissolved
so I guess it was a water suspension, not an oil solution.
2 see if IM injections really increased half-life.

Why not some Proviron for DHT-like effects?
You can even brew it injectable for 100% instead of oral 3% bioavailability.
Injectable Proviron recipe from Schering Ag

I have already linked that above, here is the full link

www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(16)60560-5/pdf

Yes it's water suspension ofc.

Well, I've thought of that but I believe nothing works like the real thing - DHT. Any manipulation and it just doensn't work the same, imo.

What would be the t/2 of injectable provi? Might give it a try next time I order raws.

Also, do you think castor oil might be a good idea to use here? I could then add a bit of EO to improve fluidity, it's thick as f**k.

 

[master.on]

I have already linked that above, here is the full link

www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(16)60560-5/pdf

Yes it's water suspension ofc.

Well, I've thought of that but I believe nothing works like the real thing - DHT. Any manipulation and it just doensn't work the same, imo.

What would be the t/2 of injectable provi? Might give it a try next time I order raws.

Also, do you think castor oil might be a good idea to use here? I could then add a bit of EO to improve fluidity, it's thick as f**k.

Does the study say what the IM half-life is (can't see the pdf myself)?

and yes, EO or any other oil will do instead of castor oil.

 

[hammerheart]

Does the study say what the IM half-life is (can't see the pdf myself)?

and yes, EO or any other oil will do instead of castor oil.

Here it is.

It says 21 days for 100-150 um particles water suspension, 6 days in the case of particles of size <50um.

Never found any data about IM oil based injection, in the regards of DHT base.

 

[master.on]

Here it is.

It says 21 days for 100-150 um particles water suspension, 6 days in the case of particles of size <50um.

Never found any data about IM oil based injection, in the regards of DHT base.

Is that 100-150 micrometer particle size?
How do you go about sterilizing it when filter pores are 0.22 um?
Big pharma probably uses gamma-ray sterilization but that is out of reach for the home brewer.

P.S. How do you attach files in Meso?

 

[hammerheart]

Is that 100-150 micrometer particle size?
How do you go about sterilizing it when filter pores are 0.22 um?
Big pharma probably uses gamma-ray sterilization but that is out of reach for the home brewer.

P.S. How do you attach files in Meso?

I have no idea how to reproduce that in a homebrew setting, my whole point was that particle size of the raw powder will affect drug kinetics in the case of water suspension.

Just enter the advanced editor via the "more options" button then "upload file".

I'm heading towards brewing with high BB concentration, was also thinking that castor oil thickness might help in delaying drug release, but might be unsuitable if pinning ED, and I doubt it will flow through a 30g needle.

 

[master.on]

What about sublingual DHT?
This study says at least 44% was absorbed
Detection of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) doping: alterations in the steroid profile and reference ranges for DHT and its 5 alpha-metabolites. - PubMed - NCBI
(see if you can find the whole study to see how it was brewed)

Alcohol helps a lot with sublingual absorption.

 

[hammerheart]

What about sublingual DHT?
This study says at least 44% was absorbed
Detection of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) doping: alterations in the steroid profile and reference ranges for DHT and its 5 alpha-metabolites. - PubMed - NCBI
(see if you can find the whole study to see how it was brewed)

Alcohol helps a lot with sublingual absorption.

Can't find that but testosterone SL formulations cited in various studies cyclodextrins were used to enhance permeability/solubility and thus bio-availability via the SL membrane.

For what's worth, I've tried throwing 100-150mg DHT under the tongue and holding it there until dissolved, didn't feel much afterward but the morning after noticed a curious event, which is unusual for me to, and the hair on my chest I just shaved recently seemingly got a growth boost. Not saying there's a direct causative effect though.

Do you think that an ethanol solution would work better and aid absorption via the SL route?

 

[ludi_janez]

you need to put it in mct with bb and it is very stable at 70mg ml. you need to heat it to around 160c i think not sure, maybe only 130. try

 

[hammerheart]

you need to put it in mct with bb and it is very stable at 70mg ml. you need to heat it to around 160c i think not sure, maybe only 130. try

I too believe the MCT might hold more but I'm extremely intolerant to it; pinned it once and felt sick with a fever for two weeks straight.

I attempted to brew at 50mg/ml and 33% BB , spent more than an hour stirring at 250-300F yet it keeps crashing , I got to re-heat the vials every time to get the DHT back into solution.

I'll try to source some EO and try that instead.

 

[ludi_janez]

i remember now how i did it. Dont heat the mct above 130C. Put the BB BA and the dht in a vial and bake it at around 180C i think. 1 hour or until it dissolves. Then you add mct and bake again at 130C.

 

[hammerheart]

i remember now how i did it. Dont heat the mct above 130C. Put the BB BA and the dht in a vial and bake it at around 180C i think. 1 hour or until it dissolves. Then you add mct and bake again at 130C.

i remember now how i did it. Dont heat the mct above 130C. Put the BB BA and the dht in a vial and bake it at around 180C i think. 1 hour or until it dissolves. Then you add mct and bake again at 130C.

180 C? That's the melting point of the DHT. Yes I believe I will try that, maybe with a slightly different procedure, thanks for your contribution.