Research shows lye (caustic soda) is the best sterilizing agent money can buy

[master.on]

Sodium hydroxide, also called lye or caustic soda
Sodium hydroxide - Wikipedia

Potential for chemical sterilization of prions
Prions are highly resistant to chemical sterilization. Treatment with aldehydes such as formaldehyde have actually been shown to increase prion resistance. Hydrogen peroxide (3%) for one hour was shown to be ineffective, providing less than 3 logs (10−3) reduction in contamination. Iodine, formaldehyde, glutaraldehyde and peracetic acid also fail this test (one hour treatment). Only chlorine, phenolic compounds, guanidinium thiocyanate, and sodium hydroxide (NaOH) reduce prion levels by more than 4 logs; chlorine (too corrosive to use on certain objects) and NaOH are the most consistent. Many studies have shown the effectiveness of sodium hydroxide.
Sterilization (microbiology) - Wikipedia

Not only it literally digests bacteria, viruses, fungi
it destroys small spores, viruses and bacterial proteins that usually pass trough 0.22 filters
destroys prions that even pass through 15 NANOmeter ultrafiltration (and ALL MICROmeter filters)
Infectious prion protein in the filtrate even after 15 nm filtration. - PubMed - NCBI

- Rinsing in Sodium Hydroxide for 1 hour at room temperature seems to be enough
But why not leave it overnight, as research shows the longer the better.

- Adding Ethyl alcohol (to 20%) makes it better/faster on spores.

- 0.1 M (4 grams Sodium hydroxide per liter) works fine, but 0.5 M (20 grams per liter) or 1 M (4 g per liter) works better/faster on endotoxins.

- Sodium chloride (plain table salt) makes it better, and it's dirt cheap.

Full study here:
https://www.gelifesciences.com/gehcls_images/GELS/Related%20Content/Files/1338541738309/litdoc18112457_20161012164839.pdf (https://www.gelifesciences.com/gehcls_images/GELS/Related Content/Files/1338541738309/litdoc18112457_20161012164839.pdf)

It even dissolves cattle bones, skin and flesh to make gelatin
The swelling of collagen in alkaline solutions. 1. Swelling in solutions of sodium hydroxide
Even criminals use it to get rid of corpses
Sodium hydroxide - Wikipedia

Butyl rubber seems to withstand Sodium hydroxide
Rubber Chemical Resistance, Rubber Chemical Compatibility, Page 5 - Mykin Inc
so it's safe for vial stoppers.

After immersing your vials/stoppers/media bottles
rinse with distilled water, preferably sterile water.
Rinse very thoroughly, but even if a TINY amount of Sodium Hydroxide remains. it's safe as it's used to adjust pH in many injectable meds.
Sodium Hydroxide (Inactive Ingredient) - Drugs.com

Of course, don't attempt to sterilize your raws, oil, BA or BB with it.

 

[MindlessWork]

You have to be VERY careful with handling lye aka sodium hydroxide as it can cause serious burns if you splash the solution on your skin.

 

[ulfbehrt]

You have to be VERY careful with handling lye aka sodium hydroxide as it can cause serious burns if you splash the solution on your skin.

Fight Club

 

[tenpoundsleft]

@master.on

Better than Everclear?

 

[XmadXscientist]

I use lye to make something and melted my scale in the process. This is not a very good idea for most people.

 

[ulfbehrt]

I use lye to make something and melted my scale in the process. This is not a very good idea for most people.

What did you make lol?

 

[MindlessWork]

I use lye to make something and melted my scale in the process. This is not a very good idea for most people.

Best to use glass beakers for measuring out lye. Don't put it directly on scale.

 

[Rockclimber]

I use this in soap making all the time. Really not that dangerous if you're not a retard.

 

[master.on]

You have to be VERY careful with handling lye aka sodium hydroxide as it can cause serious burns if you splash the solution on your skin.

Be careful

but the study quotes relatively diluted 1 M Sodium hydroxide
0.1 M can also be used.

Even crafty old ladies/senior citizens safely use way more concentrated Sodium hydroxide for soap making
typically around 25% final concentration
Concentration? Percentage? How do I figure the water amount for my lye solution?
25% = 25 grams Sodium hydroxide per 100 ml water = 250 g per liter.

The highest one in the study is only 1M = 40 grams per liter
https://socratic.org/questions/how-to-prepare-1-molar-solution-of-naoh

You can also use the lowest one quoted 0.1M = just 4 grams per liter (just leave vials longer)
0.1M is pretty safe, even teen kids use it for high school experiments:
DISAPPEARING INK...
(NOTE: With young children, a 0.1 M solution of sodium hydroxide can be substituted for safety reasons. To
prepare a 0.1 M solution, mix 0.4 g of NaOH with 100 mL of water.)
water
5 oz plastic cup or 150-mL beaker for mixing the "ink"
4 oz bottle for storing the "ink"
cloth to test the "ink"
2 droppers
Safety Precautions
Sodium hydroxide is caustic. If any gets on the skin, wash thoroughly with water. If any gets in the eyes, flush
well with water and get medical assistance immediately.
Disappearing ink is a very dilute alkaline solution. Although it is not harmful in small quantities, it should be
rinsed from the skin with water in the event of contact. Take care to avoid squirting it in anyone's face or eyes.
http://www.chymist.com/Disappearing Ink.pdf

Always wear gloves and protective goggles, keep a gallon of cheap vinegar handy.

Fight Club

Actually Breaking Bad wannabe with F-grade failed chemistry student. lol
Seriously, 0.1-1 M NaOH ain't that dangerous.

@master.on

Better than Everclear?

Much better at sterilizing. Read wikipedia sterilization article.
The only downside is that Sodium hydroxide needs to be rinsed, unlike alcohol that evaporates itself dry.

I use lye to make something and melted my scale in the process. This is not a very good idea for most people.

Was your scale totally made out of a strong acid?
No not LSD acid, lol.

What did you make lol?

Best to use glass beakers for measuring out lye. Don't put it directly on scale.

Totally true.
At least use wax paper (poor man's weighing paper)
Weighing paper - Wikipedia
or some light plastic trays.
Never place anything directly on the scale.

I use this in soap making all the time. Really not that dangerous if you're not a retard.

100% true.
Sterilization even needs more dilute NaOH than soapmaking = safer.
Do you also post in a soapmaking board?

 

[XmadXscientist]

What did you make lol?

Something to help with sleep.

Best to use glass beakers for measuring out lye. Don't put it directly on scale.

Obviously, pure lye is like little sand particles that bounce everywhere no matter what you do and they’re extremely hydrophilic so it absorbs moisture incredibly well.


1M won’t kill anyone though but if anyone attempts this they should make sure to have protective gear.

I use this in soap making all the time. Really not that dangerous if you're not a retard.

The last word in your sentence is the key part.

 

[XmadXscientist]

Was your scale totally made out of a strong acid?

No, metal plate and plastic housing. Some of the lye particles melted the insides when I wiped it off with alcohol.

 

[janoshik]

You don't need getting rid of prions unless you've accidentally your brewing gear in someones brains, who was affected.

...

lye, helping turn organic solvents into sweet salty sleep potion, haha

 

[master.on]

You don't need getting rid of prions unless you've accidentally your brewing gear in someones brains, who was affected.

Current research suggests that the primary method of infection in animals is through ingestion. It is thought that prions may be deposited in the environment through the remains of dead animals and via urine, saliva, and other body fluids. They may then linger in the soil by binding to clay and other minerals.

Prions in plants
In 2015, researchers at The University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston found that plants can be a vector for prions. When researchers fed hamsters grass that grew on ground where a deer that died with chronic wasting disease (CWD) was buried, the hamsters became ill with CWD, suggesting that prions can bind to plants, which then take them up into the leaf and stem structure, where they can be eaten by herbivores, thus completing the cycle. It is thus possible that there is a progressively accumulating number of prions in the environment.
Prion - Wikipedia


Sterilization
The World Health Organization recommends any of the following three procedures for the sterilization of all heat-resistant surgical instruments to ensure that they are not contaminated with prions:
Immerse in 1N sodium hydroxide and place in a gravity-displacement autoclave at 121 °C for 30 minutes; clean; rinse in water; and then perform routine sterilization processes.
Immerse in 1N sodium hypochlorite (20,000 parts per million available chlorine) for 1 hour; transfer instruments to water; heat in a gravity-displacement autoclave at 121 °C for 1 hour; clean; and then perform routine sterilization processes.
Immerse in 1N sodium hydroxide or sodium hypochlorite (20,000 parts per million available chlorine) for 1 hour; remove and rinse in water, then transfer to an open pan and heat in a gravity-displacement (121 °C) or in a porous-load (134 °C) autoclave for 1 hour; clean; and then perform routine sterilization processes
Prion - Wikipedia


Prions are shed from diseased hosts in a diverse set of biologic matrices, including feces, urine, saliva, blood, skin, milk, placenta, and nasal mucus. A comprehensive review of prion shedding was conducted by Gough and Maddison [6]. Prion shedding can occur many months prior to clinical manifestation of the disease

In the Environment, Prions Can Bind to Soil

Prions shed into the environment will interact with soil. Given the close contact that animals, especially ruminants, have with soil through routine behaviors, including ingestion of soil via feeding and mineral supplementation, there is significant opportunity for transmission of prions via soil. Prions appear to have an affinity for quartz sands and soils and a particularly strong affinity for clay minerals
Behavior of Prions in the Environment: Implications for Prion Biology

 

[master.on]

You don't need getting rid of prions unless you've accidentally your brewing gear in someones brains, who was affected.

Current research suggests that the primary method of infection in animals is through ingestion. It is thought that prions may be deposited in the environment through the remains of dead animals and via urine, saliva, and other body fluids. They may then linger in the soil by binding to clay and other minerals.

Prions in plants
In 2015, researchers at The University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston found that plants can be a vector for prions. When researchers fed hamsters grass that grew on ground where a deer that died with chronic wasting disease (CWD) was buried, the hamsters became ill with CWD, suggesting that prions can bind to plants, which then take them up into the leaf and stem structure, where they can be eaten by herbivores, thus completing the cycle. It is thus possible that there is a progressively accumulating number of prions in the environment.
Prion - Wikipedia


Sterilization
The World Health Organization recommends any of the following three procedures for the sterilization of all heat-resistant surgical instruments to ensure that they are not contaminated with prions:
Immerse in 1N sodium hydroxide and place in a gravity-displacement autoclave at 121 °C for 30 minutes; clean; rinse in water; and then perform routine sterilization processes.
Immerse in 1N sodium hypochlorite (20,000 parts per million available chlorine) for 1 hour; transfer instruments to water; heat in a gravity-displacement autoclave at 121 °C for 1 hour; clean; and then perform routine sterilization processes.
Immerse in 1N sodium hydroxide or sodium hypochlorite (20,000 parts per million available chlorine) for 1 hour; remove and rinse in water, then transfer to an open pan and heat in a gravity-displacement (121 °C) or in a porous-load (134 °C) autoclave for 1 hour; clean; and then perform routine sterilization processes
Prion - Wikipedia


Prions are shed from diseased hosts in a diverse set of biologic matrices, including feces, urine, saliva, blood, skin, milk, placenta, and nasal mucus. A comprehensive review of prion shedding was conducted by Gough and Maddison [6]. Prion shedding can occur many months prior to clinical manifestation of the disease

In the Environment, Prions Can Bind to Soil

Prions shed into the environment will interact with soil. Given the close contact that animals, especially ruminants, have with soil through routine behaviors, including ingestion of soil via feeding and mineral supplementation, there is significant opportunity for transmission of prions via soil. Prions appear to have an affinity for quartz sands and soils and a particularly strong affinity for clay minerals
http://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1003113

 

[master.on]

In this study, researchers compared vials sterilization
with dry heat (similar to baking), moist heat (autoclave) vs 1 minute caustic soda immersion
A Comparative Study of Different Methods for Endotoxin Destruction

Three treatments were performed:
1 Dry heat: vials were treated in a Carbolite oven at 250°C for 30 minutes. Heating at 250°C for not less than 30 minutes to depyrogenate glassware and utensils is stated in USP Pyrogen Test Chapter <151> [3].
2 Moist heat: vials were autoclaved at 121°C for 30 minutes; this autoclave cycle is a standard one used to sterilize equipment.
3 Caustic: each vial was rinsed with 10ml of 0.1N NaoH for 1 minute. This concentration of caustic is reported in the literature as capable of depyrogenation [17]. A 1-minute wash was performed as it was practicable and could be easily implemented and carried out if shown to be successful.

As seen from the GE lifesciences study, 1 minute is too short a time
2 hours is better.
48 hours is best.

No wonder why 1 minute immersion yielded subpar results.

Dry heat was determined to be the most effective method of depyrogenation performing significantly better than both the moist heat and caustic treatments. This study therefore supported the general findings in most literature. Dry heat consistently achieved a greater than 3-log endotoxin reduction. The moist heat and caustic treatment protocols in this study were not capable of consistent depyrogenation. Neither did the two alternative methods achieve the same quantifiable level of endotoxin destruction compared to dry heat.

 

[ickyrica]

Back the bus up for a minute here.

For any average day to day member reading this thread what I want you to take away is this:

Don't use lye to sterilize anything. Warm water, mild soap, bleach solutions maybe, distilled water, iso alcohol, dry heat, saniwipes etc. Use these things to clean your lab equipment.

When you have a solid grasp of the basics maybe then start reading into the practical use of Lye in lab sterilization with the intent of using lye.

This post is in no way meant to detract from the threads subject matter. Mearly a PSA to the new brewer. Thx!

 

[janoshik]

I think you could shorten it into 'don't listen to a thing from master.on."


For masteron - if your glassware is in contact with soil, shit or wild growing plants then maybe it's time to worry.

 

[TRT]

I think you could shorten it into 'don't listen to a thing from master.on."


For masteron - if your glassware is in contact with soil, shit or wild growing plants then maybe it's time to worry.

Ya cause I got deer popo on my vials.

 

[master.on]

Back the bus up for a minute here.

For any average day to day member reading this thread what I want you to take away is this:

Don't use lye to sterilize anything. Warm water, mild soap, bleach solutions maybe, distilled water, iso alcohol, dry heat, saniwipes etc. Use these things to clean your lab equipment.

When you have a solid grasp of the basics maybe then start reading into the practical use of Lye in lab sterilization with the intent of using lye.

This post is in no way meant to detract from the threads subject matter. Mearly a PSA to the new brewer. Thx!

Most homebrewers actually brew cleaner than UGLs do.

The scary part is that many small UGLs, especially small-time domestic sources
won't do ANYTHING to sterilize their vials or stoppers!
scary but true.

AT BEST they'll soak vials and stoppers in alcohol and allow it to dry.
So, Lye is a dirt cheap (UGLs are always trying to cut corners) yet very effective sterilization method. It also works for rubber stoppers, that can't be baked.

Lye requires rinsing in sterile water
- boiled water might work ok and it's dirt cheap
- water boiled in a pressure cooker is better
- boiled water (allow to cool off) then sterile filtered is best. Many brewers/UGLs already have sterile filters around. And water flows faster trough 0.22 filters than oils do, so it's pretty fast.
- Pharma sterile water would be the best one. While affordable for individual brewers, it might be too expensive for UGLs.
- Alcohol can also be used to rinse lye. Obviously allow alcohol to dry before filling vials.

I hope this post contributes to avoid infections in the BBing community.