So you think that your HPTA is shut down due to ED & libido

the_grizz35

New Member
I did two cycles of Deca Durabolin by itself ( I have since found that deca only cycles are a very bad idea). I followed the cycles with PCT including clomid and HCG. During and after the cycles I suffered from erectile dysfunction and lack of libido. In general I also just felt like crap, like I was in a fog and couldnt focus. This also resulted in depression. I assumed that my HPTA was shut down hard so I went to see an endocrinologist. The Doctor ordered blood work which all came back normal (testosterone range in the high 600s & I have posted my test results on this board). The doc felt like I had performance anxiety and it was all mental. I knew that there was something wrong because I just didnt feel the same as before the cycle. During the past few weeks I have found a lot of research that indicates steroids have a huge psychological effect on the body whether you are on or off at the time. This effects the central nervous system greatly due to the presence of a foreign object on your body. Here is an quote from https://thinksteroids.com/steroid-profiles/deca-durabolin/

It also appears less effective or entirely ineffective in activity on nerve cells, certainly on the nerve cells responsible for erectile function. Use of Deca as the sole AAS often results in complete inability to perform sexually.

To combat this problem I took Choline Bitartrate as well as Pantothenic acid which will sort of make the neurotransmitters in the nervous system as well as the brain function required for sexual function.

Sexual arousal occurs not just in the genitals but in the whole body and, especially, in the brain. For men, it actually begins when the brain sends impulses down the spinal cord and out to the nerves that serve the penis. These impulses trigger the production of nitric oxide (NO), which causes penile arteries to dilate and the spongy core of the penis to relax and become engorged with blood. The neurotransmitter that carries the sexual message is acetylcholine (ACh). ACh also seems to control sexual behavior through its activity in the brain. In addition to its direct role in the sexual response, ACh is also the primary chemical the body uses to transmit signals from nerves to skeletal muscles, the muscles that move the body. You need this chemical for muscular control and proper muscle tone. There is reason to believe that enhancing cholinergic neuromuscular transmission will enhance your energy and stamina by raising your ACh levels and that this can provide indirect sexual benefits by allowing you to perform longer and with more energy. Vitamin B5, also known as pantothenic acid or calcium pantothenate, actually seems to enhance endurance by two routes. The first is its already-mentioned role in creating ACh from choline. Second, is its role in the energy-producing Krebs Cycle, which is vital for all living cells.

Doseage : Combinations that many people have found effective include three times as much choline as B5 (for example, 500 - 1,000 mg of B5 in combination with 1,500 - 3,000 mg of choline). It is probably wise to begin with lower doses in this same ratio, and gradually increase the dose as tolerated.

Dopamine also has a huge effect on sexual function and desire. I am also taking a combination of Tyrosine and Phenylalanine which help to increase dopamine levels.

Several lines of evidence link activity of the neurotransmitter dopamine in the brain with sexual behavior. Generally, it appears that higher levels of dopamine are associated with more sexual interest and vice versa. Increased brain dopamine activity caused by taking the drug L-dopa is believed to be the cause of a hypersexuality syndrome in people who take the drug for Parkinsons disease.

L-dopa is a chemical precursor of dopamine (which in turn is a precursor of norepinephrine). In other words, the body uses L-dopa to make dopamine. L-dopa is available only by prescription, but you can also increase your brain dopamine levels by taking the nonprescription amino acids that the body uses to make L-dopa: tyrosine and phenylalanine.

People who have lost interest in sex because they are depressed may benefit from taking doses of 100 to 500 milligrams of L-phenylalanine or L-tyrosine for two weeks. Supplements of vitamin B6, vitamin C, folic acid and copper in addition to the tyrosine or phenylalanine, should help maximize the conversion of L-dopa to dopamine.

My results were astonishing with frequent erections. I finally feel like the old me before the juice, which is fantastic. All this time I thought I was shut down however it was my brains reaction to steroids and its affect on the central nervous system it affected the most. All of these vitamins can be purchased at any health food store for $6 to $8 per bottle. For maximum effect try adding a dopamine antoginist like Dostinex/Cabaser or bromocriptine. You will not be disappointed. The only side effect I have had was a little nausea on the first day that quickly subsided. For the full article see http://www.vrp.com/art/552.asp
 
Excellent post and thank you for the information! I will see about ordering these suppliments. So to sum it up:

100-500 milligrams of L-Phenylalanine or L-tyrosine (for 2 weeks)
Vit B6, C, folic acid and copper in addition to the above.

The obvious other's being Zinc/ZMA, DIM (if E2 is high) and various others. I am soon going to start Kelp for optimizing thyroid (via it's iodine content).
 
Thought i would add in a few points here. A few of the guy's in the forum (myself included) have complained about lack of penile sensation. This can be related to a number of thing's but diabeties, thyroid and other causes.

However vitamin B-12 deficiency is a "known" cause of lack of penile sensation so getting a diet high in this is important too. Over the past few week's i have been altering diet allot and feel i have noticed some improvement in skin and sensation, not great, but i still have thyroid to treat.

Thought it would be worth mentioning anyway...
 
Yeah, actually there are a few people over on the propecia site, including myself, who are doing these supplements, and they really work. There is a book called "The Edge Effect" which talks all about it and gives some of the protocols.
Some guys are taking upwards to about 2-3 grams per day of both L-tyrosine and L-phenylalinine, however myself, I reduced my intake to about a gram of each. More than that made me feel a little weird.
But again, they really work! Helps to relax you, stop you from panicking and reduces cortisol I think, so your body can heal.
Also, I take Gaba Relaxer, and
Theanine Serene
 
The_griz: Could u please do a post starting your protocol? eg:

vitamin [x] : 400mg per day
vitamin [x]: 200mg per day etc etc

was kinda hard to pull the info out of your post as it was so detailed :)

thanks
 
Ok here is my daily protocol.

500 mg panothenic acid
1500 mg choline bitartrate
500 mg tyrosine
500 mg phenylalanine
400 mcg folic acid
100 mg b-6
500 mg c
2 mg chelated coppeer
2.5 mg bromocriptine

this is my 5th day and im amazed at the results.
 
the_grizz35 said:
Ok here is my daily protocol.

500 mg panothenic acid
1500 mg choline bitartrate
500 mg tyrosine
500 mg phenylalanine
400 mcg folic acid
100 mg b-6
500 mg c
2 mg chelated coppeer
2.5 mg bromocriptine

this is my 5th day and im amazed at the results.
What brand of choline bitartrate are you using ? Did you begin the bromocriptine at the same time or were running it earlier ?
 
Grizz, some questions:

1) what time of day do you take all this
2) do you take it all on an empty stomach or with food?
3) do the effects last for a short while, or the rest of the day?

Thanks!
 
I was runnung the bromocriptine earlier. First I did 6 weeks of cabaser with little results then i switched to bromocriptine about 25 days ago. The bromocriptine was a little better but i still had alot problems with ed. This is my 6th day taking these suppliments.

500 mg panothenic acid
1500 mg choline bitartrate
500 mg tyrosine
500 mg phenylalanine
400 mcg folic acid
100 mg b-6
500 mg c
2 mg chelated coppeer

After the first day on these suppliments i could feel the difference. Thats how i knew this was making a difference. Its that good for my particular situation (Deca dick). The choline im using is a generic from a local vitamin store. Just the bromocriptine alone didnt work for me. I take it in the morning with food. I was so desperate to fix my problem on the first day i took everything on an empty stomach in the parking lot of the store. It caused a little nausea on an empty stomach so i made sure to switch to taking it with food. the effects last all day/night. I now have 0 ED problems. I have wood every morning and im back to the old me before the deca. Before i could have a thought about sex and get wood. After the deca that stopped. Well guess what, now the wood is back.
 
L-Tyrosine & DL-Phenylalanine has seriously gotton me through this long,cold winter(I live near Chicago,IL) without as much winter depression I normally have during winter months.Chicago also has almost as many cloudy days as Seattle,WA or England(UK) ..

I have found breaking dosages down and taking them throught the day more effective than taking it all in one dose. But I rather not take a dose before bed because it sometimes kept me up too late.

Tried bromo but it seems to lower my blood pressure too much sometimes so not to keen on it. Low blood pressure can make you feel lethargic. But I do like the idea of it lowering prolactin.

As an alternative to bromo I've used macuna extract (has L-dopa in it) at night time to boost HGH levels and antagonize prolactin.You could also just eat natural fava beans for the L-dopa also.
 
Sounds like I should give your protocol a try. I got shut down bad with deca but began running deca with cyp, in proportion 1 to 2 and that all ended. But still at my age I need all the help with wood that I can get.
 
What's the cost per month on that?

Did u start taking everything at the same time, or did u add one by one? I wonder how many are actually effective and if some could be shedded.
 
Try biotest powerdrive. It is excellent. Add two green tea's and you have a powerful nervous system recovery/regeneration stack.
 
Im gonna give the Grizz protocol a try as well

Im in a similiar situation due to a cycle of anavar... my test levels are the same
in the high 600s and all other hormones are ok. I too was told it was psychological
but that is all to often an excuse from docs who really dont have an answer.

Anyway my routine will be the same minus the bromo, and for some reason
I cant find any copper in the health food stores in Australia.

It stated in the article to take 500 grams of L-phenylalanine OR L-tyrosine apon
googling the two I read that L-tyrosine concerts into L-Phenlalanine in the body?
Im a bit confused about that , so am taking the L-tyrosine for now.

Anyway Im starting today so will keep you posted and hope that this protocol
works for myself as well as it has for the Grizz
 
these are the only suppliments i am taking. I bought everything at a local heath food store for about $60 and most of them had about 100 pills per bottle so dependending on the dose thats at leaast 2 months worth. I started taking everyhting at the same time. Rush74 i feel the same as you. My doc just plain didnt know what to do. It was just frustrating because i knew that i didnt feel the same and it wasnt psychological. You should be able to order the copper from an internet source.
 
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