Some info for Buffhottie.

[Deacon]

I am going to post up some info pertaining to women and steroids - hope you find it useful.

take what you can from the various articles - all are very good reading

 

[Deacon]

Women and AAS

CREDIT FOR THIS WONDERFUL AND INFORMATIVE POST GOES TO MY FRIEND NG:


Women and AAS: what it CAN and CAN'T DO
This is a must read for newbies. And a must read for any woman in fitness who considers herself beyond the "average" gym goer and wants to push past a plateau to build nice quality muscle.

What you think is a clean diet may indeed be one as compared to most Americans however a fitness "clean" diet is so hard to maintain. Even the most celebrated fitness model or competitor cannot keep her bodyfat as low as competition time...it is just not doable nor healthy for the long term.

What you consider a good cardio or good training regmine -- may be that way as compared to others you see day in and day out at the gym however for the body you want that stands out, sacrifices need to be made BEFORE you even consider a cycle of anabolic steriods.

What AAS will NOT do for a women:

1. It will not, after one cycle, make you the hottest thing in a bikini. It will not make you Monica Brant, Jill Mills, Lenda Murray (or any fitness model -- you fill in the name).

2. It will not burn fat.

3. IT WILL NOT BURN FAT...cannot stress this enough.

4. It will NOT lean you out, nor cut you up.

5. It will NOT TONE you -- and please remove the word "tone" from your vocabulary if you are serious about fitness.



What AAS will do for most women:

1. Add a modest amount of strength.

2. Build some muscle ..... overall muscle size as opposed to defined muscle (I will address this later). It will take more than 1 or 2 or even 3 cycles before you get to your desired goal -- perhaps not even to your goal.

3. AAS will cause a positive change to your body however unlikely to be a permanent change without followup cycling or incredibly stringent dieting and training. Meaning that once your cycle is over, by and large after your body releases the chemicals and cleanses itself, it will indeed bring your body back to its previous state. YOU WILL retain some muscle (called keepable gains) if you were eating well all along before, during and after your cycle and continue to do so, but the lasting hardness and loss of estrogenic fat will return. Your body composition will become more soft (this does not mean fat) after the cycle is over.

4. AAS will indeed cause you to become MORE critical of how you look. And therefore be less satisifed with what you see in the mirror. It is a mind game for sure and some people (men and women included become mentally addicted to it).

5. AAS, even the least androgenic of sorts, will cause sides such as, but not limited to: compromised HDL/LDL levels, increased blood pressure, breast shrinkage, loss of menses, water weight gain, dry scalp, oily skin, hair loss, enlarged or sensitive clitoris, voice changes (starting with raspiness and going further into deepness), coarser hair, increased hair growth (everywhere), darkening of previously light/blonde body hair. These are just a few. And don't think or believe for one minute that more hair or a deeper voice won't bother you -- it will ... especially if you have not gotten what you expected from your cycle. The cost analysis - "risk vs. return factor" may not be in your favor (results vs. sides).

AND I SHOULD MENTION, the chemical changes that can occur to your supply of ovum. There is no data as to how AAS will harm a yet to be concieved baby (i.e., birth defects).


I will say that AAS can be a useful tool in pushing through a muscle building plateau but only if every other avenue has been exhausted. It is by no means a quick fix or even a guarantee. For us hardgainers who push more weight than alot of women natural and have a hard time putting on muscle, AAS can help.

Now -- back to overall muscle vs. defined muscle. Overall muscle is muscle you gain during a cycle. Defined muscle is that muscle AFTER you diet down (cutting). It is very rare for a male (doable but rare) to be able to bulk and lose bodyfat at the same time....which of course, makes it that much harder for a woman to achieve both succuessfully.

In order to build muscle (whether using roids or NOT) is being able to EAT to build muscle. Usually, one will need to eat for mass but inherently bodyfat will be a given so as not to cheat your body from the necessary nutrients for effective and successful muscle building. Cardio done too often and too strenuosly while trying to build robs the energy your body needs for muscle building and repair.

In order to get that muscle to show, you will need to diet down. This requires a calorie deficit to help lose fat while making sure not to sacrifice too many protein calories (so you can keep more muscle). Most often, along with fat, you will lose some muscle.
Now there is some success with dieting down and taking AAS to help preserve that muscle however it works for some women but not all...and even so, you still need diet to lose fat -- there is NO MAGIC PILL.

And let me add in addition to dieting, cardio is the only other tool for fat loss. Not easy cardio .... but sweat breaking, chest heaving, side-stitch, "I think am going to die" types of cardio in shorter bursts. Long easy cardio is great for cardiovascular health but not all that effective at burning fat and not muscle. Sprints or intervals are great explosive bouts of cardio to help burn off fat and not disturb too much muscle mass.

I am sure after I post this, I will have forgotten a key element. However when the mods here ask for your background and diet and try to steer you away from AAS as a first choice -- it is not that we are trying to be unhelpful nor to convince you that a cycle is for only the elite of athletes, but too often young women opt for a cycle and end up with terrible sides, lasting compromises and adding muscle over fat which produces are more stocky look. All of that can be avoided with research, asking questions, doing your homework and talking to women who care and have had experiences with it. Too many boards are filled with -- "this is what my boyfriend told me to do -- now what?" -- types of threads.

Men try to be helpful but what works for them is so far and away different than what works for us. So please, the dude at the gym that tells you deca is great and hit yourself with 150 mgs a week ....is not telling you the whole story, when it comes to a woman.

For details on dieting, we have a forum dedicated to that, post your daily intake and ask for a critique. Be ready for some honesty......you would be surprised how many healthy eaters can go astray (me included). I believe kel has a really post in there as does Torchy with some guidelines. I even think Nubian Beauty put together a cutting cycle for someone recently. Hardbodygrl has her diet down to a science. Everyone reacts a bit differently but be honest with yourself about how your daily diet varies from these -- very often little tweaks make big pay offs in the figure.

 

[Deacon]

Steriod Cycles for Women

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This is just basic stuff.....read thru and see if it helps you some PRINTED THIS UP FOR ANOTHER BOARD. JUST THE BASICS

Important to remember, steroids BUILD muscle, and are not for fat loss purposes. If losing some extra pounds and toning up is your goal, then there are many products out there, geared to losing weight, besides the obvious of making a change in diet and your exercise routine.

Steroids should be considered when you have worked out for at least two years or more and are at your ideal body weight. Then any gains made by the steriod use, will be pure muscle, and your hard earned money will not be wasted.

A great beginner cycle for women is Anavar. Anavar is one of the mildest anabolics out there, with low androgenic activity. It is known to increase strength and add quality muscle. Any women fearing side effects should definitely stick to Anavar. At a low dose of 5 mg everyday, most women see no ill side effects. A typical cycle should run from 6-8 weeks.

Primobolan is another mild steroid. It does not convert into estrogen, which is a plus, if water retention is a worry for you. Most women respond well to a dosage of 50-100mg per week. A typical time frame to run this would be 8-10 weeks. Some side effects to watch out for include oily skin, acne and a possible increase in facial/body hair. Primobolan will give a slow, steady increase in strength and builds quality muscle.

Winstrol can be taken orally or be injected. Winstrol should not be used for a beginner’s cycle. Most women either love winny or they hate it. It is a favorable drug to be used in a cutting cycle, when your diet is good. Winstrol builds mass and gives awesome strength gains. Side effects can occur, and things to watch out for include deepening of voice, enlarged or sensitive clitoris, and acne. Women usually take 5-10mg daily. Keeping this dose low will decrease chances of unwanted side effects. It is usually wise to split the dose up during the day, to keep blood levels on an even base. With the injection, usually 25mg every 3rd or 4th day is a normal dosing. Run this cycle for 8 weeks. Remember to take milk thistle, because this steroid is stressful on the liver.

Deca is a popular steriod among female competitors. Even though it is only slightly androgenic, sometimes virilization can be expected. Keeping the doses low and monitoring for sides can nip these unwanted sides early. Sides will include excess facial/body hair; some women on the other hand report cases of losing hair. Once again, low dosing is key. Deca is not a fast builder of muscle, but slow, gradual gainer of muscle and strength. Women should start at around 50mg per week. If virilization is at all a concern, then possibly trying the shorter acting nadrolone Durabolin might be a option.

If you must dabble in testosterone, then Test Prop should be the choice; only because it is in and out of your system fast. So if any unwanted sides appeared, all that you need to do is stop using, and it will be cleared from your system fast. It’s good to spread the injections out, generally using 25mg to 50mg per injection, every 5 to 7 days. This cycle should exceed 8 weeks. Sides to look for include clitoral enlargement; excess facial/body hair; deepening of voice; oily skin; acne; and increase sexual libido (not a bad side, really ) It is very important to monitor your self closely while using test.


Women do not need to taper on their cycles of steroids; once the cycle is over, then just discontinue use (one good benefit of not having balls).
A lot of side effects brought on by anabolic steriod use is irreversible for women. Make sure you have researched and read personal testimonies before choosing your drug.

 

[Deacon]

Advising women on steroid use

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Advising women on steroid use
Posted by Realgains on cuttingedgemuscle



Advising women on steroid use
Fact of the matter is many many ladies still come to men for advice on how to use steroids. Unfortunately most men don't have a clue and choose NOT to give advice but some others do give advice and it's not always good advice. There are, however, a few men that know what they are talking about when it comes to steroid use for women.

I think I have a good grasp on how a woman should use steroids.
I got this "know how" through personal research with my wife and through trial and error with my wife. I have also trained national level female bodybuilders, so I know what big doses are and also what they can do in regard to muscle gain and androgenic sides.

Guys...if you want to advise your woman on how to take gear then you better listen up or you could cause a lot of androgenic sides and she won't be pleased with that at all.

REALGAINS AND WIFE steroid advice for women.
I'll try to keep it brief and simple.

Women need to be fully aware of their goals BEFORE using gear. If they have the genetics to compete at the national level and WANT TO then they need to know that fairly heavy steroid use is REQUIRED if they are going to stand a chance in Hell of winning anything. Steroid choice for these women should still be primarily limited to the milder androgens but the doses with be highish and stacking common place.

MOST ladies are recreational lifters or minor competitors and do not have the genetics nor the interest in "going all the way" The advice below is geared towards these women and those that want to compete at local and perhas state events and at a high level in "fitness" competitions"

GEAR CHOICE

My wife has tried many steroids so I will relate good gear choices, cycles, results, and advice through her experience. She did all the following cycles for about 12 weeks.

Primo 100mg/week started at about 75mg/weekand increased to 100 by about week 6
EQ at 75mg/week
Winstrol 10mg/day in two doses
Winstrol 20mg/day orally in two doses/day
Winstrol 25mg IM every 3rd day
TESTOTERONE! 60mg/weekof prop, 15mg every other day for 6 weeks only. Stopped due to increased facial hair, large clit and a cracking voice. Hair has been lasered off thank God!
Nandrolone phenylprop 100mg/week. Started at about 75mg/week and increased to 100 after about week 6. Tken at 25mg every other day due to short half life.

Nandrolone phenylprop 75mg/week and anavar 20mg/day in three doses/day.
Anavar 10mg/day in two doses
Anavar 15mg/day in three doses
Anavar 20mg/day in three doses
Anavar 25mg/day in three doses


RESULTS

All the above cycles gave good results in lean muscle gain and strength gain.
She experienced water retention on all cycles.
The nadrolone gave slightly more water retention than the others, except test, but she shoulders never hurt her while lifting heavy.


HER ADVICE ON ADROGENICITY.

Avoid the strong androgens at all costs(d-bol, test, IM tren etc).
Mild androgens can be very androgenic if dose is too large.
Test was by far the most androgenic hormone used followed by EQ. She ranks all others used as "about the same" doses although she experienced a few androgenic sides with the higher doses of Winstrol IM.
* Was aware of greater bioavailablity of IM hormones so she lowered weekly IM dose accordingly.

ANDROGENIC SIDES

Sides very minor but still there on as little as 10-15 mg of Var and Winstrol (minor acne on shoulders and some water retention.)

Acne on the shoulders on all cycles(mild) Worst on EQ and Test
Slight voice "hoarseness" in the voice at times that went away after stopping. Worst on EQ
Major cracking of voice on test.

As said, a fair amount of hair growth on upper lip while on test. A little(very minor) while on the steroids except low dose Var and low dose oral winny. All lasered off.

Clit got really big on test..about 5mm long and much thicker too. has gone down a bit but still large. She thinks this has been good for her sexually.

Water retention on all cycles and worse as dose increased.



FAVORITE STEROID

She liked the Primo and Var about the same, although she no longer uses Primo as she is afraid to get a fake.
So Var is now her #1 choice for herself and women in general and Denkall is her favorite brand as it has been tested as 100% pure and well dosed too. Second choice is Loeffler.

AND>>>>>>> her liver panel and lipid panel remained UNCHANGED after 8 weeks on 25mg of VAR/day! (piss me off )

ADVICE ON ESTERS

Avoid deca as nandrolone phenylprop is safer as one can "bail out" of a cycle if sides get bad. If you must use test use prop, for the same reason.
Be aware that Primo is almost always faked(deca) and that even if it is real it is in a long acting etser(enathate). Primo acetate is no longer available as far as we know.
EQ is also in a long acting ester.
If bad sides come on you MAY be able to bail out of a cycle with short acting/clearing injectables.



THE BIGGEST MISTAKE WOMEN MAKE according to my wife.

#1."They take up to 50mg of IM winstrol every other day, and that is way too much. They then say that winstrol is a "snake bite roid" or "not for most women" when the real culprit is the IM route and excessive dose. Many women do not understand that IM steroids are much more bioavailable than oral steroids and as such doses should be lowered"

#2. "Stacking" is not needed for all but the advanced competitor and can lead to excessive doses and androgenic sides" Always try each of the steroids that you want to use separately before trying to stack.

#3. "Too much too soon PEROID!"

MY WIFES SECRET TECHNIQUE.

My wife has always had a low test level. Many ladies(even young ladies) do not produce enough test in the adrenals and ovaries. Any women that has a test level of 30 or less doesn't have enough test for optimal sex drive and athletic function.
SO...she takes test gel from a compounding pharmacy every day at 2.5mg transderamally. This has rasied her T level to the mid normal range at about 55. When she wants to retain more of her mass post cycle she ups the dose to 5mg /day. This jacks her T level up to high normal for a woman(about 90)

So if ladies want to retain more mass post cycle maybe they should get there T level tested (after a couple mounths off gear of course) Few ladies have a T level in the high normal range and many have a low test level. Maybe your T level is low.

This is how you achieve a very low T level, if your T level is adequate, so your doc will prescribe T gel... take a steroid for a month and then go to your doctor complaining about a non existant sex drive. Ask for your T level to be tested. It will come back very low due to the steroid use. Then ask for a script of test gel from a "compounding Pharmacy"


WHERE TO START

My wife and I recommend 10mg of Var a day in two-three divided doses for 12 weeks as a beginning cycle. Denkall is our first choice.
If you can't find Var then try winstrol at about the same dose orally.

We DO NOT recommend that anyone go above the doses my wife has used as she feels she has pushed the dose to a realistic max.

Some ladies will react worse to androgens than others so START SMALL. Some can get away with quite a lot of gear and some can only use small amounts without bothersome sides.

* Some women react differently to each of the milder androgens, although my wife didn't notice much difference, so some experimentation and selective tinkering may be in order.





REALGAINS and his top trainees.

Well ladies and gents I am currently training a national level competitor and she is on 200 of deca a week, 25 of Var/day, 25 of winstrol/day , 4 of GH and slin too. She looks great and is very big but she is very pretty and with a sexy "build". Unfortunately she sounds like a guy, especially over the phone. Thats the price most women have to pay to reach the top.

BTW the pros use more!


ALSO....don't take this advice as "gospel". This is just some general good advice for most women we think. It has been "our experience"and our .02

RG and wife

 

[Deacon]

Injectables for women

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My wife and I have been doing a great deal of research on injectable steroids for the ladies. Thanks goes out to the steroid researchers Bill Llewellyn, Bill Roberts and also board members Warlobo, HuckleberryFinaplix, Daeo, Ann, Iron Queen, MS, and many others.

WHO SHOULD DO INJECTABLES
Ladies that have tried at least one mild oral steroid and now wish to add more mass to their bodies.

RISKS
The chances of contracting side effect, and potential virilization, are higher with injectables than with anavar. Anavar is the mildest steroid for ladies without a doubt...too bad it is not in an injectable form.

Most common sides seen with the ladies are as follows and in no particular order. Some negatives can also be positives as you will note below

NEGATIVE SIDES
Ance, oily skin, clitoral enlargement beyond minimal, aggression, hair loss..male style, hair growth especially on upper lip and chin, hair loss, darkened hair growth, quickened hair growth on legs and arms, lowering of voice tone, distruption of normal menstral cycle, aggression.

MOST COMMON NEGATIVE SIDES
Oily skin, some hair growth, a little acne, some alteration in normal menstral cycle, minimal voice tone lowering, darkening body hair

PRECURSER TO VOICE LOWERING
If you get a squeaky voice, hoarse throat or voice, scratchy thoat, raspy throat or voice, a cough, or any ache in the throat then stop the steroid immediately as these are common warning signs of voice alterations

PERMANENT NEGATIVE SIDES
Voice lowering may improve immediately after a cycle A LITTLE but will NEVER return to normal. Some girls are affected minimally and still sound like a women and others end up sounding like a man if they continue with the steroid. Clit growth remains...androgenic swelling goes away but the GROWTH remains. Some long time and heavy users have grown a little penis(TRUE!

POSITIVE SIDES
Feelings of well being, increased energy, decreased recovery time, aggression, heightened sex drive with small amount of clit enlargement, Muscle gain, strength gain, some reports of decreases in estrogenic fat ie"upper legs, butt, upper arms, abdomen.

PERMANENT POSITIVE SIDES
Mass and strength will largely remain IF you train and eat properly post cycle. Better sex, due to clit growth, but sex DRIVE returns to normal except for the possible increase in sex drive as a result of heightened enjoyment.

NOTE:
Ladies normally do not see an alteration in total serum cholesterol and hdl levels due to the fact that minimal doses are used. This is a big deal as this is the worst side in men IMO.
Hair loss, if any, is very minimal due to small doses.
Your voice will surely lower, in time, and sooner than later, if you go above 50mg of ANY injectable per week. It may even lower on 50mg/week or less in 4-6weeks but it is not that common.

INJECTABLE CHOICE
Pure anabolics vs androgenic anabolics.

IMO there are only two injectables that are nearly pure anabolics and they are nandrolone and primobolin. They are somewhat androgenic but one could classify them as anabolics.
The more androgenic the hormone the greater are your chances for sides including virilization, but the greater your chances are for great muscle growth. The most androgenic hormones are Test and Tren and then perhaps winny, although some would disagree with me on the winny.


PRIMO
Used by many ladies as it, along with nandrolone, is probably the least androgenic roid. CAREFUL....primo is in the long acting ester enenthate and it clears slowly. Many ladies have experienced very bad sides from this roid due to the fact that they take too much per week (above 50-75mg). INJECTABLE primo is not our drug of choice because it is long acting and if sides come on that you don't like then you have to ride them out until the roid clears your system and by the time it does permamnent sides may have set in. Daeo's wife had a bad experience with primo.
If you start low you shouldn't have too much trouble, if any, IMO as it is quite mild androgenically. Just remember though that it will not give quick muscle gains at all. The gains seen are usually quality muscle built at a slow steady rate. If more and quicker gains are needed then I would recommend Nandrolone.

WARNING. Primobolin is faked all the time so you better know your source VERY well or you may get test cyp or another cheaper compound! All 50mg ampules are safe as none have yet to be duplicated . Greek primo is safe. They are in a clear glass ampule and printed with green lettering and are 100mg/ml. Be sure to look for the Greek ID sticker on its box just in case. Turkish Primo is safe as well.

Schering has recently altered the look of their Spanish 100mg amps. They now have clear glass with a paper label and three rings on the amp tip, one is yellow and two red. Fakes have a larger than normal blue dot on the amp head.....get help from from someone that has used Primo before for identification purposes.

Nandrolone Phenylpropionate
Realgains #1 choice for the serious liften female!
Bill Llewellyn's first choice for ladies as he feels it is the injectable with the least androgenic affects, and that includes Primo. Vikingwife did 20mg every three days with no sides except increased sex drive. There is at least one other women on the board that loves nandrolone very much. Will give better muscle gains than primo.

Durabolin is an excellent choice. Hayrian Biologicals makes a high quality Nandrolone phenylprop that is cheaper than durabolin and come in 100mg/ml 2ml vials. Nandrolone Decanate is not recommended as a first time choice as it is a very long acting ester.

Personally Realgains thinks that this roid in the Phenylprop ester would give the best gains to least sides ratio. It is superior to primo due to its short acting nature and its better muscle building properties.

Nandrolone is the easiest at the scalp and causes the least hair loss of all steroids so if female thinning runs in your family then perhaps this roid is best for you.

Personally Realgains thinks that this roid would soon become more popular than Primo if it was more readily available. Availability is picking up however!

Boldenone undecylenate (EQ)
About as potent as nandrolone but is not recommended for a first time cycle as it is in a long acting ester. Ttokkyo labs produce a good cheap product.

May be slightly more androgenic than nandrolone but will give no better gains than nandrolone.


Winstol
As wilth men the ladies either love winny or hate it. I can't explain this but it is true.We do not like winny although many ladies do. Winny is less androgenic than test but more than Primo and probably nandrolone too.

I have heard too many negative reports on the harshness of winny especially as it relates to lowering the voice. This could be dose related as winny is not as androgenic as test....yet females may respond differently. Use the winny with small particle size so you can inject with a 27guage pin. Do no more than 70mg per week and less is best. The best Winny IMO are made by Zambon ES,I 1ml amps. Another good source and cheaper is made by Ttokkyo labs. These are the only ones that you can both trust and that also have small enough crystals that will inject through a 27 guage pin. Do not trust any other European or American product as they are highly faked.

Testosterone
Not a foreign compound to the female body. Small amounts are produced in the ovaries and adrenal glands. Not overly androgenic IN SMALL DOSES, although it is more androgenic than any roid listed(Tren may be just as bad or worse) Test gives the best muscle and strength gains. Gives sence of well being and energy more so than the others, increases sex drive more so than the others.

Many many ladies love to use low dose test. Daeo's wife has had good experiences with test and he has written much about this on the forum. Warlobo's wife also liked test as have others.
Testosterone Propionate is recommended for two reasons. Firstly it has a short half life so it will clear your system quickly after you stop should sides come on that do not agree with you. Secondly it is not as highly faked as test Cypionate or enanthate.
Brovel makes a pretty decent product at 100mg/ml. This is a favorite of Quadsweep "The Voice of Reason"

Virormone by Ferring is probably the best available however.
I doubt that there is a pro, or near pro, that doesn't use test a fair bit. Very cheap for a female cycle, especially if you switch to test cyp in the 10cc vails, after you find the dose of test that you can tolerate.

Trenbolone acetate.
Some ladies do use this very powerful roid but we DO NOT recommend it. Tren is more powerful per mg than any other steroid and as such accurate tiny does are hard to measure. It is at least as androgenic as test and maybe more so IMO.
If you do use it then use VERY little and never more than 25mg per week.

ESTERS AND DOSE SCHEDULES.
An ester is a compound made up of hydrogen and carbon atoms. They are added to pure steroids or testosterone in order to slow the release of the active agent. Some esters have a short chain of hydrogen and carbon and others have longer chains. The longer the chain the longer the time release of the steroid.
Prop is a short ester and Decanate is a long chain ester.
NOTE: 50mg of nandrolne in a phenylprop ester has more actual steroid than 50mg of nandrolone in the decanate ester as some of the 50mg weight is taken up by the longer ester. THE DIFFERENCE IS MINIMAL! Never let anyone tell you that one type of steroid is more powerful than another type of the same steroid. These are myths . There is a myth that test Cyp is more powerful than test enanthate and this is a myth. In actuality the enanthate ester has one less carbon atom and 50 mg of the test will have a tiny amount more test than 50mg of cyp.

HOW TO DOSE.

Most conservative.....Inject 50 mg of steroid or testosterone once and then let it completely clear the system. ie: Test prop 50mg then wait a week before doing another injection. OR...Test Cyp 50mg and then wait for two weeks before injecting again. This system will give you some results and is very safe in regard to sides.

The next method is recommended by Bill Llewellyn and others. In this system one injects a dose and then lets it partially clear the system. It is thought that this clearance will not allow androgens to build up over time which of course can cause sides and virilization. This sytem will give better results and liitle sides. Examples are 25- 50mg test prop every 5-7 days or 50mg of test cyp every 10 days. This system is favored by huckleberryFinaplix and Realgains.

The last system will give best results. This system is favored by many and requires injecting AT LEAST as frequently as a male.
In this system you try to inject at least twice per half life. This keeps hormone spikes to a minimum. These more even blood levels result in better gains. There is also some evidence to suggest that spiking hormone levels cause more sides.
Here is an example of this system...Test prop 15mg every second day or 20 mg every third day. Also test cyp 20-25 mg twice per week or every forth day at most. I believe Warlobo and Daeo favor this system. If you are a top level competitor then this is the system for you.

DURATION

Simply put the longer you are "on" the greater are your chances for virilization. An 8 week cycle is a good start. latter cycles can be longer once you get a feel for the hormone. A long low dose cycle of 12 weeks or more can be great.

DOSE PER 7 DAYS!!

Testosterone 25-50mg
Primo 50-75mg
Winny 50-70 mg 7-10mg per day INJECT DAILY for best results
Nandrolone 25-60mg
EQ 25-60mg
These doses will give you great gains with little chance of serious sides. If you are top level competitor then obviously these doses are quite moderate. I would not recommend any women go much above these doses unless they are darn serious about being competitive!

PINS
You must use an insulin syringe in order to get an accurate dose.
You can use a 27 gauge hypo to inject since you will be injecting very little and the insulin syringe, being tiny, gives great injection power. With a 27 pin you won't feel a thing. Remember to rotate injection sites...upper outer glute/hip and outer thigh.

STACKING

We do not recommend that you use more than one hormone at a time unless your are a top competitor. If you do stack your voice will almost certainly lower and other sides will be worse.
If you MUST stack than we would recommend using a small dose of anavar with the injectable at perhaps 10mg per day, 5mg in the am and 5 mg in the pm.

Diet
While trying to increase mass while on injectables you must increase your protein intake to about 2 grams per pound of body weight. If you do not do this then your gains will be likely be less . I recommend a good low fat whey protein shake betwee three regular meals. Some people seem to get great gains with less but it is safer to go higher. Caloric intake also needs to go and the increased protein intake will help.
You can get good strength gains ,and some muscle gain, while on anavar, and not eat that much in the way of protein or calories, but this is not the case when trying to build some serious muscle.

LAST NOTE

If you are a naturally muscular mesomorphic female that needs to shave her legs frequently then you may wish to stick to the mild orals such as primo and anavar as you will be more prone to sides. Sometimes the slightly built that are hairless to nearly hairless can get away with more steroid use without much in the way of sides if doses are kept reasonable.

Best of luck to you all and keep us posted.

Realgains and Amy

 

[Deacon]

Women and testosterone: (mayo clinic)

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Women and testosterone: An interview with a Mayo Clinic specialist
From MayoClinic.com
Special to CNN.com


Testosterone is a word that often brings to mind images of big men, big trucks and gladiator-style football. After all, testosterone is considered to be the principal male hormone, playing an important role in the development and maintenance of typical masculine characteristics, such as facial hair, muscle mass and a deeper voice. So why would women want testosterone? The fact is, women produce it too, and it has more positive influences than you might think.

Paul Carpenter, M.D., is a consultant in endocrinology and health informatics research at Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minn. He has practiced in endocrinology, with a special interest in hormone replacement, for 25 years. Here he addresses questions about the role of testosterone in women.

Testosterone is usually thought of as a male hormone, but women have it, too. How much testosterone do women produce?

Testosterone production is substantially lower in women than it is in men. After puberty, a woman begins to produce a constant, adult level of testosterone. The production is split about 50:50 between the ovaries and the adrenal glands. In men, the testes produce testosterone. Women produce just a fraction of the amount of testosterone each day that men do.

What does testosterone do for women?

Studies show that it helps maintain muscle and bone and contributes to sex drive, or libido. There are also quality-of-life issues. If you give testosterone replacement to testosterone-deficient women, they often say they feel better, but they're not specific as to how.

One of the tough things about research in this area is what has been measured and what hasn't. Testosterone levels, muscle mass and bone strength have been measured. When testosterone levels in the blood increase, bone density generally improves. Although a few researchers have attempted to measure changes in sex drive and overall quality of life, these important effects are much more difficult to assess. A study in the New England Journal of Medicine evaluated sexuality and quality of life in women with low blood levels of testosterone. After raising their blood levels of testosterone using a medicated skin patch, health and sexuality seemed to improve.

Which women should have their testosterone levels checked?

It's a complicated answer. After menopause, testosterone production drops, but not as sharply as estrogen does. For women who've had their ovaries removed, testosterone production drops by roughly one-half, sometimes resulting in less-than-normal testosterone blood levels.

Generally, the women who have too little testosterone are those who may go to their doctor with concerns like, "Ever since I had my ovaries removed, I don't feel like the same person. I'm not as strong, I don't have as much energy and I don't have the same sex drive." Should we measure testosterone in all women who've had their ovaries removed? I don't know. If a woman says her sex life has diminished since her hysterectomy, her doctor may check her testosterone level. If it's low, she can consider testosterone replacement.

Another group at risk of low testosterone is women who have lost pituitary gland function because of a medical condition or past surgery. The pituitary sends hormone messages to the adrenal glands and ovaries. Without the pituitary signal, hormones aren't manufactured. These women require estrogen and cortisone replacement, and they're also testosterone deficient. This isn't a common problem, however.

Why aren't more women being given testosterone replacement?

It's true that very few women are getting testosterone replacement. As I've indicated, good studies about deficiency are sparse. Because of that, many doctors aren't yet convinced of the benefits. In testosterone replacement studies done 15 or 20 years ago, the doses were often too high. As a result, there were side effects, such as body hair growth and acne.

Another major problem is that we don't have good product choices to give women because the drug companies don't manufacture many products for testosterone replacement in women. In the New England Journal of Medicine study mentioned before, researchers tested a skin patch designed for women. Unfortunately, this patch isn't yet available but may well be in the future. Testosterone patches are available for men, and there is a testosterone gel they can apply to their skin. But because women would need a much smaller dose, they cannot use the patches or gels designed for men.

Right now there's really not a good way to replace testosterone in women. We can use injections, but most women don't want to come in for a shot every 2 or 3 weeks, and the blood levels are hard to regulate. After an injection, testosterone levels may go up too high, then decline, like a roller coaster. There's no pure testosterone in pill form either. Synthetic pills are available but tend to be unevenly absorbed into the body and may pose some risk to the liver. Testosterone delivered through the skin with a patch is absorbed quite evenly and seems more natural, with less potential for serious side effects. Using patches doesn't appear to be risky as long as the dose is regulated.

How important is it for women with low testosterone to have it replaced?

It isn't an imminent health danger per se. However, think about the older woman with osteoporosis who has fallen and fractured her hip. If her testosterone is low, would replacement have helped prevent her hip fracture? It's possible. Testosterone has the potential to strengthen her bones. Additionally, she might have been able to prevent the fall if her muscle mass had been better.

If a postmenopausal woman is on hormone replacement therapy (HRT), does that affect her need for testosterone?

Yes. Estrogen therapy — with or without progesterone — can further suppress residual testosterone production by the ovaries. That's because hormone signals from the pituitary gland drive ovarian hormone production. Taking estrogen partially reduces the pituitary hormone signal to the ovaries and potentially reduces testosterone production. The pituitary senses there's enough estrogen, so it doesn't send the signal for more estrogen and testosterone.



The latest on hormone replacement therapy: An interview with a Mayo Clinic specialist


Hormone replacement therapy: Who should take it and what are the alternatives?


What are the side effects of testosterone replacement?

When given in appropriate doses, there are no negative side effects. Today we can measure blood levels, so it's easier to monitor the dose. Excessive testosterone can cause acne, body hair growth and scalp hair loss in women. Excessive testosterone supplementation, such as you'll find with anabolic steroids used by athletes, also tends to drop high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol levels. That's the "good" cholesterol. Lower HDL levels increase the risk of heart disease.

What about other androgens, such as dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA)?

DHEA is a weak androgen or male hormone. Although it's true that DHEA levels decline with age, very few well-designed research studies show benefit from replacement. Another New England Journal of Medicine study says DHEA treatment improves sexual function in women who have underactive adrenal glands, but not many people are using the supplement for that reason. In addition, many people are taking DHEA in very large quantities. Again, excessive amounts of synthetic androgens drive down HDL cholesterol levels, which is considered a cardiovascular risk. People who are ill often have lower-than-normal DHEA or testosterone levels. This appears to be a normal physiologic response to illness and not the cause of the illness.


March 31, 2003



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__________________

 

[Deacon]

Some Info on Women's Cycles

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Female cycles - some Info!

Posted by: Ms Figure @ IronMagazineForums

Female Steroid Use

It is important to note that we need to take a different approach to AAS Use. There are only a limited number of the AAS, which we can consider.

E.g.

Primo, Anavar Nandrolones, Winny, Proviron

And in the case of some HGH.


Even at the lower dose side affects can occur, male hormone in a female body can cause adverse reactions. We discussed this before so we know what we are talking about; I will list them later for reference.

When planning that first cycle you need to remember a very low dose of very low androgenic items is advisable. This will offset much of the risk of virilization. One benefit for women is that we do not have to consider our naturally occurring test production, that’s something the men can keep! Also because of the choice of drugs available we avoid the more liver toxic substances.

We can benefit from the use of estrogen antagonists, including Nolva and Proviron, these can improve condition and make the muscle appear harder.

AAS have been seen to be extremely effective for many women athletes, look at a track and field event or any fitness competition and you will see women who have obtained size, strength and endurance.

A basic beginners cycle and one I would recommend for a first-timer, includes Primo for 8 weeks. I suggested this to Fitgirl as something to look into after her ECA/Clen stack.

Week 1-2
50mg Primo
Week 3-8
100mg Primo


Since the virilizing effects women suffer from when using AAS tend to be permanent, it is a good idea t to use caution at all times.

One technique is to stack two low androgenic items for a period less than six weeks and then take several weeks off, then coming back to another four or five week cycle and then taking a good two months off.

Below is an example. Watch for adverse reactions that usually occur in proportion to the duration of use. The use of Growth Hormone by women has proven to be extremely effective in some cases. Since GH is not an androgenic drug, it does not result in any virilizing effects for women. Growth Hormone greatly increases muscularity primarily by reducing body fat stores in the woman while leaving the lean muscle mass unaltered.

I would though say as a personal thing that HGH is not for the novice, or even intermediate. I would advise lots of research and is really saved for the Pro’s.

Anyway a more advanced cycle using the above method.

Week 1 - Primobolan 5mg/tab, 2 tab/day. Deca 100mg/cc, 1/2cc/wk
Week 2 - Primobolan 5mg/tab, 3 tab/day. Deca 100mg/cc, 1/2cc/wk
Week 3 - Primobolan 5mg/tab, 4 tab/day. Deca 100mg/cc, 1/2cc/wk
Week 4 - Primobolan 5mg/tab, 5 tab/day. Deca 100mg/cc, 1/2cc/wk
Week 5 - Off
Week 6 - Off
Week 7 - Off
Week 8 - Deca 100mg/cc, 1/2cc/wk. Winstrol 2 mg/tab, 2 tab/day
Week 9 - Deca 100mg/cc, 1/2cc/wk. Winstrol 2 mg/tab, 3 tab/day
Week 10 - Deca 100mg/cc, 1/2cc/wk. Winstrol 2 mg/tab, 4 tab/day
Week11 - Winstrol 2 mg/tab, 3 tab/day
Week 12 - Winstrol 2 mg/tab, 2 tab/day


So if we are going to take the risk what benefits are there?

Reduced Body fat
Increased Lean Muscle Mass
Feeling’ of Euphoria (don’t get carried away!)
Increase in self-Esteem
Heighten Sexual arousal!

Using AAS "improves nitrogen utilization which promotes a positive nitrogen balance by the reversal of catabolic processes This can improve nitrogen balance and increase the concentration of total plasma amino acids. Which will result in increased protein synthesis and decreased nitrogen excretion”. This all points towards an increase in leanness, muscle definition, muscle mass, weight, and strength Recovery time will be faster which as you know will allow you to train harder and longer than before, and if desired more frequently. But IMO less is more!

One Thing AAS are not a miracle pill they are not super pills, which answer all our problems. I honestly believe when you take AAS things get harder; your discipline and dedication have to be unwavering as without Diet and Training AAS are nothing.

OK Some negatives

First off any negative side effects are proportionate to dose and duration of use and the type of AAS being used.

Though some side effects appear very obvious, other effects of using AAS may not be so easy to find. There are 3 areas of a woman's well being that are being affected:

Physical
Behavioural
Functional

You’ve probably seen that many times before but IMO its is the best way to clarify them.

Physical side effects

Virilization can occur as stated and this unfortunately means taking on male characteristics.

You will retain much more sodium; the face and eyes can appear puffy. Over time, a woman will develop a male body type and experience male aging characteristics. The Voice may deepen and can permanently become hoarse. Hair growth can rise on the face, chest, back, and upper pubic area, I’ve read about baldness as well but we talking extreme here! Skin can become coarse and of course in heavier cycles acne raises its ugly head (pardon the pun). Hypertrophy, or enlargement, of her clitoris occurs as well. Most of these physical side effects are irreversible.

Research and knowledge is key, the textbook can be extreme in its definition. If you are sensible and take note of what is going on then you can avoid the above. I would advise having someone close to monitor your progress as well, someone you trust to be honest and constructive.

Behavioral side effects

Now moods and irritability are something we deal with during our menstrual cycle. However, this can be increased on cycle and in some instance aggressive out burstss can occur. Herbal remedies exist, which can help stress, so again with self-control and honesty you, can be human.

The extra attention which the extra muscle mass can bring may also have physiological affects, I often feel people comments to be inappropriate, but I put it down to jealousy.

Functional side effects

AAS affect a woman's natural body functions. With an increase in testosterone levels, hormone levels are far from being in synch.
Having testosterone 30 times greater than normal lead to a decrease in sex-hormone binding globulin (SHBG- a protein produced in the liver), a decrease in follicle-stimulating hormones, a decrease in circulating HDL-cholesterol, and a decrease in thyroid binding proteins. With these ever changing levels of hormones the immune system is at risk.

A structured programme of vitamin supplementation can help boast immune function. If interested I have a list of items. Also it is advisable to start this programme in advance of your cycle.

Cardiovascular risk factors include the alteration or diminishing of glucose tolerance and hyperinsulinism (become resistant to insulin), a change in lipoproteins (carry cholesterol in blood) fraction which can cause cardiovascular disease and atherosclerosis (deposition of fatty substances onto inner walls of arteries causing blockage), increased triglyceride levels, hypertension (abnormally high blood pressure), changes in her myocardium (middle muscular layer of heart wall), and increased concentration levels of several different clotting factors. Blood clots that form in blood vessel disrupt the flow of blood and can damage the heart muscle. Cardiomyopathy (typically chronic disorder of heart muscle that may involve hypertrophy and obstructive damage to the heart), myocardial infarction (localized death of the myocardium tissue usually leading to heart failure), heart attack, stroke, and cerebro-vascular accidents can occur. Anabolic steroids also affect the liver. They can cause cholestatic jaundice (failure of bile flow that causes yellowish pigmentation of skin, tissues, and body fluids), peliosis hepatis (blood-filled cysts develop on liver), hepatocellular hyperplasia (unusual increase of an epithelial parenchymatous cell called hepatocytes in the liver), and cancer. A woman can develop kidney disease and/ or cancer.

But lets just remind us the above is directly proportionate to dose, frequency and AAS used!!! These are textbook definitions and represent the worst-case scenario. IMO the above is an indication of AAS abuse or mis-use through misinformation. But anything can happen and you have to be prepared. It is your choice at the end of the day, but its important to know the facts.

As discussed in the Previous thread AAS use can result in the inhibition of follicle formation, ovulation, and irregularities of menstrual cycle that can lead to amenorrhea (absence or suppression of the menstrual cycle).

A pregnant woman using AAS can do much damage to her unborn child causing growth retardation of her fetus and pseudohermanphroditism (a person having both male and female physical body and character traits, can be affected anatomically as well). Infertility can result from an extended period of AAS use.

Other negative side effects include bad breath, water retention, muscle cramps, achy joints, nosebleeds, and insomnia.

So lets summarise those then, taking AAS increases a woman's risk of cardiovascular disease, liver disease and cancer, kidney disease and cancer, a weakened immune system, osteoporosis.
Ok enough of me!

 

[ag-guys]

I'm no lady, but even I found this to be an interesting read.

AG
www.ag-guys.com

 

[liftsiron]

My experience has been that women can make fantastic gains with minimal risk with low dose aas use. Regardles of how careful most women will get enlargement of the clit, a slightly deeper voice and all run the risk of increased facial hair. Often non reverseible when use is discontinued.

 

[buffhottie]

Thanks so much

Deacon,
Thanks so much for the info. I really appreciate it.
Just for the record. I work out hard, Lift heavy and have for years.
Nothing short of a magic wand can turn someone into something they are not. I like to joke about wanting Monicas bod but the truth is I am happy with my genetics and what I look like. I just want a little bit more size. I don't have a problem getting lean except that I feel I lose too much muscle when dieting so I never take it to the point of having tons of striations and all that. I have to decide if I want detail or shape. I wouldn't mind having both. As I said earlier, the judges are mixed in their taste as far as liking the smaller boned vs. thicker boned girls but it is pretty consistant that they all like muscle.
If I decide to do it(and if I did, I still don't know where to get it)
I will post before and after cycle pics (in my basic black practice suit, with a plain background and my head chopped off!)
Anyway. Thanks again
BH