Squat and deadlift question

[bull_dozer]

Hi!
My squat and deadlift are pretty bad and i want to improve it.
My weekly workout looks like this:
day1. chest
day 2. back
day 3. arms
day4. shoulders
day 5. legs

What would be the best way for me to improve my squat and deadlift?
Is it ok to just use the same routine but just throw in squats and deadlift every day before other muscle group?
I would like to work on my technique but i feel that doing sq and dl once a week is too little and i forget what i learned the last week.
Thnx!

 

[evarthecaveman]

Throw rack pulls on back day squats and straight legs on leg day and throw in a regular deadlift day with lower back and hamstrings

 

[weighted chinup]

The best way would be to drop the idea of a body-part split and focus on training the movements instead of certain muscle groups. This way you can train squat and deadlift more frequently and promote faster strength adaptations and improve technique.

If you aren't very strong at these movements or are new to doing them then I would train them as frequently as possible. If you are decently strong then I would keep frequency moderate rather than high because weekly volume is probably going to play a larger role in your progress at that point. That is just how I would handle it personally, that last part is kind of subjective and simply my preference.

Personally, every 3-4 days is the minimum I train a movement, and that is my preference for an intermediate / advanced lifter. Beginners can benefit from even higher frequency.

 

[Docd187123]

The best way would be to drop the idea of a body-part split and focus on training the movements instead of certain muscle groups. This way you can train squat and deadlift more frequently and promote faster strength adaptations and improve technique.

If you aren't very strong at these movements or are new to doing them then I would train them as frequently as possible. If you are decently strong then I would keep frequency moderate rather than high because weekly volume is probably going to play a larger role in your progress at that point. That is just how I would handle it personally, that last part is kind of subjective and simply my preference.

Gold ^^^

 

[bull_dozer]

The best way would be to drop the idea of a body-part split and focus on training the movements instead of certain muscle groups. This way you can train squat and deadlift more frequently and promote faster strength adaptations and improve technique.

If you aren't very strong at these movements or are new to doing them then I would train them as frequently as possible. If you are decently strong then I would keep frequency moderate rather than high because weekly volume is probably going to play a larger role in your progress at that point. That is just how I would handle it personally, that last part is kind of subjective and simply my preference.

Personally, every 3-4 days is the minimum I train a movement, and that is my preference for an intermediate / advanced lifter. Beginners can benefit from even higher frequency.

Thanx man!
I am very weak on those exercises.
My one rep DL is 310lbs and 1 rep squat is 280lbs.
In comparrison, my bench press is 265.
When i was younger i hardly ever done squats and DL so i need to catch up.

Do you think this would be ok: ??

Monday: Squats, chest
Tuesday: Deadlift, back
wednesday:Squats, arms
tuesday: sumo deadlift, shoulders
friday: squats, straight leg deadlift, legs

 

[dnoyez]

Not good.If your new to squats and deads go try something like madcow 5x5.

 

[Mayne]

Do you handle frequency well? Do you handle volume well? Now because you will obviously begin training for intensity how you will react is up to you from where you will have to judge/gauge the program. I personally pull 2-3 days apart, squat 2-3 days apart and bench 2-3 days apart BUT I also ohp on the day where I am squatting so basically pressing is engaged 4 times a week where pulling or squatting are twice. Not really a fan of madcow or any 5x5 program, I prefer 5/3/1 by far for a beginner or RTS if one has enough time for math and programming and obviously knowledge of periodization and how different rep ranges affect used weight. Honestly even with a simple linear program and good frequency/volume you will gain strength fast enough on these 1 RM

 

[Xlgx]

Strong lifts 5x5

 

[ebkallday]

The best way would be to drop the idea of a body-part split and focus on training the movements instead of certain muscle groups. This way you can train squat and deadlift more frequently and promote faster strength adaptations and improve technique.

If you aren't very strong at these movements or are new to doing them then I would train them as frequently as possible. If you are decently strong then I would keep frequency moderate rather than high because weekly volume is probably going to play a larger role in your progress at that point. That is just how I would handle it personally, that last part is kind of subjective and simply my preference.

Personally, every 3-4 days is the minimum I train a movement, and that is my preference for an intermediate / advanced lifter. Beginners can benefit from even higher frequency.

Take this one to the bank and cash it!!! Solid advice!

 

[dnoyez]

Do you handle frequency well? Do you handle volume well? Now because you will obviously begin training for intensity how you will react is up to you from where you will have to judge/gauge the program. I personally pull 2-3 days apart, squat 2-3 days apart and bench 2-3 days apart BUT I also ohp on the day where I am squatting so basically pressing is engaged 4 times a week where pulling or squatting are twice. Not really a fan of madcow or any 5x5 program, I prefer 5/3/1 by far for a beginner or RTS if one has enough time for math and programming and obviously knowledge of periodization and how different rep ranges affect used weight. Honestly even with a simple linear program and good frequency/volume you will gain strength fast enough on these 1 RM

Look at his deadlift and squat max.He is a Novice.But 5/3/1 actually is not the best programing for him in my opinion.Its 10lbs a cycle lowerbody and 5 lbs a cycle upperbody in gains to the bar..once a month.Snail gains.Even though 5/3/1 is easy for anyone to jump into the progress made at that slow of a speed is better for someone more advanced.like the lifter who is making that jump from 395lb bench to 400lb bench next month.Thats big gains right there.Those templates like madcow,stronglifts or even texas method gives him the chance to make those weekly and even day to day newbie gains.look at the progression on a madcow template programed for just twelve weeks.Your seeing 45-55lb jumps in weight on flatbench if you can fight through that linear path till the end.

 

[bull_dozer]

Thanx for your suggestions.
I have put up a program that i would like to do in my log so visit it pls
https://thinksteroids.com/community...at-to-shred-log.134370297/page-3#post-1455163

 

[tenpoundsleft]

The best way would be to drop the idea of a body-part split and focus on training the movements instead of certain muscle groups. This way you can train squat and deadlift more frequently and promote faster strength adaptations and improve technique.

If you aren't very strong at these movements or are new to doing them then I would train them as frequently as possible. If you are decently strong then I would keep frequency moderate rather than high because weekly volume is probably going to play a larger role in your progress at that point. That is just how I would handle it personally, that last part is kind of subjective and simply my preference.

Personally, every 3-4 days is the minimum I train a movement, and that is my preference for an intermediate / advanced lifter. Beginners can benefit from even higher frequency.

I've had lower back issues - I think from having not exercised seriously for several years after marriage, possibly originating back in my army days with all the idiotic schlepping around with massive amounts of gear on my back. Then I got back into it, and have focused heavily on core exercises for the past 3 years, pretty solid outer and inner core now.

So that's the background - and I'm 52 now btw - and the other day I finally gave squats a try - felt inspired after watching a bunch of Rippetoe videos.

So I did the whole routine - started with empty bar squats, loaded up one set of 45s, did 10 reps that felt good, loaded up another set of plates, another 10 reps, still feeling good, and took it to 275 in the final set, also with 10 or maybe 8 reps.

Happily my back felt just fine the following day.

I'm not planning on getting into deadlifts any time soon (my hand grip strength needs improvement, and using straps seems to defeat the purpose) I think that's asking for trouble, but if I can handle squats I plan on incorporating that. I've only done machine work for legs up until now, but I'd rather do full body movements.

My goal is to keep strengthening the core, not to build massive legs - jeans are already hard to come by. So if I can get to 350lbs for at least 6 reps, that's a good level for me. Not interested in 1RM at all, I'd rather avoid injuries, a big factor to my training approach.

So here's the question, how complete of a leg workout do you think squats are? For example, I like weighted dips, I think they do a great job of engaging numerous muscles. Would you rate squats as the equivalent for legs/core?

And considering my age (52), do you still suggest that many leg days per week? I hadn't planned on doing squats more than twice per week,and go heavy enough to be able to maintain at least 6 reps per set.

Edit: re-read your post, and I saw that you're not suggesting 3-4 times per week, but at least every 3-4 days. So, maybe twice per week for me is a suitable compromise, considering my age?

 

[Perrin Aybara]

I've had lower back issues - I think from having not exercised seriously for several years after marriage, possibly originating back in my army days with all the idiotic schlepping around with massive amounts of gear on my back. Then I got back into it, and have focused heavily on core exercises for the past 3 years, pretty solid outer and inner core now.

So that's the background - and I'm 52 now btw - and the other day I finally gave squats a try - felt inspired after watching a bunch of Rippetoe videos.

So I did the whole routine - started with empty bar squats, loaded up one set of 45s, did 10 reps that felt good, loaded up another set of plates, another 10 reps, still feeling good, and took it to 275 in the final set, also with 10 or maybe 8 reps.

Happily my back felt just fine the following day.

I'm not planning on getting into deadlifts any time soon (my hand grip strength needs improvement, and using straps seems to defeat the purpose) I think that's asking for trouble, but if I can handle squats I plan on incorporating that. I've only done machine work for legs up until now, but I'd rather do full body movements.

My goal is to keep strengthening the core, not to build massive legs - jeans are already hard to come by. So if I can get to 350lbs for at least 6 reps, that's a good level for me. Not interested in 1RM at all, I'd rather avoid injuries, a big factor to my training approach.

So here's the question, how complete of a leg workout do you think squats are? For example, I like weighted dips, I think they do a great job of engaging numerous muscles. Would you rate squats as the equivalent for legs/core?

And considering my age (52), do you still suggest that many leg days per week? I hadn't planned on doing squats more than twice per week,and go heavy enough to be able to maintain at least 6 reps per set.

Edit: re-read your post, and I saw that you're not suggesting 3-4 times per week, but at least every 3-4 days. So, maybe twice per week for me is a suitable compromise, considering my age?

Squats are the ultimate leg exercise in my opinion.

Some form of upper/lower split should work fine for you, hit each group twice a week and vary the reps and accessories a little.

 

[Docd187123]

I've had lower back issues - I think from having not exercised seriously for several years after marriage, possibly originating back in my army days with all the idiotic schlepping around with massive amounts of gear on my back. Then I got back into it, and have focused heavily on core exercises for the past 3 years, pretty solid outer and inner core now.

So that's the background - and I'm 52 now btw - and the other day I finally gave squats a try - felt inspired after watching a bunch of Rippetoe videos.

So I did the whole routine - started with empty bar squats, loaded up one set of 45s, did 10 reps that felt good, loaded up another set of plates, another 10 reps, still feeling good, and took it to 275 in the final set, also with 10 or maybe 8 reps.

Happily my back felt just fine the following day.

I'm not planning on getting into deadlifts any time soon (my hand grip strength needs improvement, and using straps seems to defeat the purpose) I think that's asking for trouble, but if I can handle squats I plan on incorporating that. I've only done machine work for legs up until now, but I'd rather do full body movements.

My goal is to keep strengthening the core, not to build massive legs - jeans are already hard to come by. So if I can get to 350lbs for at least 6 reps, that's a good level for me. Not interested in 1RM at all, I'd rather avoid injuries, a big factor to my training approach.

So here's the question, how complete of a leg workout do you think squats are? For example, I like weighted dips, I think they do a great job of engaging numerous muscles. Would you rate squats as the equivalent for legs/core?

And considering my age (52), do you still suggest that many leg days per week? I hadn't planned on doing squats more than twice per week,and go heavy enough to be able to maintain at least 6 reps per set.

Edit: re-read your post, and I saw that you're not suggesting 3-4 times per week, but at least every 3-4 days. So, maybe twice per week for me is a suitable compromise, considering my age?

The real question is how many machines and/or isolation movements would it take to develop not only the legs but the entire body as you can with squats

 

[weighted chinup]

I've had lower back issues - I think from having not exercised seriously for several years after marriage, possibly originating back in my army days with all the idiotic schlepping around with massive amounts of gear on my back. Then I got back into it, and have focused heavily on core exercises for the past 3 years, pretty solid outer and inner core now.

So that's the background - and I'm 52 now btw - and the other day I finally gave squats a try - felt inspired after watching a bunch of Rippetoe videos.

So I did the whole routine - started with empty bar squats, loaded up one set of 45s, did 10 reps that felt good, loaded up another set of plates, another 10 reps, still feeling good, and took it to 275 in the final set, also with 10 or maybe 8 reps.

Happily my back felt just fine the following day.

I'm not planning on getting into deadlifts any time soon (my hand grip strength needs improvement, and using straps seems to defeat the purpose) I think that's asking for trouble, but if I can handle squats I plan on incorporating that. I've only done machine work for legs up until now, but I'd rather do full body movements.

My goal is to keep strengthening the core, not to build massive legs - jeans are already hard to come by. So if I can get to 350lbs for at least 6 reps, that's a good level for me. Not interested in 1RM at all, I'd rather avoid injuries, a big factor to my training approach.

So here's the question, how complete of a leg workout do you think squats are? For example, I like weighted dips, I think they do a great job of engaging numerous muscles. Would you rate squats as the equivalent for legs/core?

And considering my age (52), do you still suggest that many leg days per week? I hadn't planned on doing squats more than twice per week,and go heavy enough to be able to maintain at least 6 reps per set.

Edit: re-read your post, and I saw that you're not suggesting 3-4 times per week, but at least every 3-4 days. So, maybe twice per week for me is a suitable compromise, considering my age?

Back squat performed frequently enough is a sufficient leg workout imo. If you do it frequently enough and with enough weekly volume then you're not really missing out on a whole lot. However, since you are not including deadlifts in your programming, I would add a movement that addresses the posterior chain further, since this is an area that an additional movement will benefit you. I recommend Romanian Deadlifts. Rip has a video on youtube for these as well, they are not nearly as demanding as traditional deadlifts and straps are certainly viable for these. I've generally performed RDL's for 8-10 rep sets when I did them regularly.

It goes without saying, but be mindful of anything that causes pain. Sometimes improving mobility and reducing tightness can do a lot for relieving pain and making movements viable again that were causing trouble earlier.

Twice a week is a good frequency for Back Squat though, I would have no problems recommending this frequency. I'm currently training front squat 3x a week but intensity changes every time I train it. I have a 90% day, 85%, 75%,etc. I would recommend a similar approach even at 2x a week though, just to make long term progression viable. Squatting 2x or even 3x a week isn't that bad as long as you are changing intensity and volume requirements for each session. There is no way I would be able to do 90% 3x a week, and even 2x a week was challenging at a high intensity for both sessions, but it is certainly doable.

 

[Docd187123]

I've had lower back issues - I think from having not exercised seriously for several years after marriage, possibly originating back in my army days with all the idiotic schlepping around with massive amounts of gear on my back. Then I got back into it, and have focused heavily on core exercises for the past 3 years, pretty solid outer and inner core now.

So that's the background - and I'm 52 now btw - and the other day I finally gave squats a try - felt inspired after watching a bunch of Rippetoe videos.

So I did the whole routine - started with empty bar squats, loaded up one set of 45s, did 10 reps that felt good, loaded up another set of plates, another 10 reps, still feeling good, and took it to 275 in the final set, also with 10 or maybe 8 reps.

Happily my back felt just fine the following day.

I'm not planning on getting into deadlifts any time soon (my hand grip strength needs improvement, and using straps seems to defeat the purpose) I think that's asking for trouble, but if I can handle squats I plan on incorporating that. I've only done machine work for legs up until now, but I'd rather do full body movements.

My goal is to keep strengthening the core, not to build massive legs - jeans are already hard to come by. So if I can get to 350lbs for at least 6 reps, that's a good level for me. Not interested in 1RM at all, I'd rather avoid injuries, a big factor to my training approach.

So here's the question, how complete of a leg workout do you think squats are? For example, I like weighted dips, I think they do a great job of engaging numerous muscles. Would you rate squats as the equivalent for legs/core?

And considering my age (52), do you still suggest that many leg days per week? I hadn't planned on doing squats more than twice per week,and go heavy enough to be able to maintain at least 6 reps per set.

Edit: re-read your post, and I saw that you're not suggesting 3-4 times per week, but at least every 3-4 days. So, maybe twice per week for me is a suitable compromise, considering my age?

Squatting twice a week is fine. You can even use different squatting movements to shift some of the emphasis I to different musculature.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

The real question is how many machines and/or isolation movements would it take to develop not only the legs but the entire body as you can with squats

Amen! I shun machines as much as possible - the family owned a commercial Nautilus gym back in the 80s, so I got hooked on that concept, but have since switched to free-weights and large, complex movements.

My machine work for legs has just been a compromise since I didn't trust my lower back.

It's usually a good idea to balance adductors and abductors so what about hamstrings - kind of hard to do them without a machine - thoughts on that?

 

[Docd187123]

Amen! I shun machines as much as possible - the family owned a commercial Nautilus gym back in the 80s, so I got hooked on that concept, but have since switched to free-weights and large, complex movements.

My machine work for legs has just been a compromise since I didn't trust my lower back.

It's usually a good idea to balance adductors and abductors so what about hamstrings - kind of hard to do them without a machine - thoughts on that?

Squatting will work the adductors and abductors bc of the rotation in your femurs/knees/etc. Not only that but they'll have functional strength as well as help protect against injury. Machines, while useful at isolating certain muscles, don't share the same benefit bc you're not working the body as it's meant to be used. In every natural movement an antagonist muscle is used concurrently with it's agonist muscle. Hopping on an adductor and abductor machine avoids this so they're not strengthened proportionally in the way they prefer.

Squats already involve all your hamstring muscles. There's no way around that with a squat. You can shift the emphasis slightly more to hamstrings by doing box squats, low bar wide stance back squats, pause squats, etc. For further hamstring development you can do like WeightedChinup suggested, RDLs and also SLDL. I wouldn't avoid pulling movements and deadlifts bc of a grip issue bc doing these movements will strengthen your grip at the same time.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

I wouldn't avoid pulling movements and deadlifts bc of a grip issue bc doing these movements will strengthen your grip at the same time.

Good stuff doc - thanks.

About the grip - I'm doing farmer's walks with the heavy dumbbells and kettlebells - give me a few months and I should be better at this. Thinking of setting up a 1.5" bar between two 6x6 posts outside so when spring comes I can do dead hangs - and of course pullups. As it is, my hand grip just isn't what it should be - had tendon issues too long that kept me from training that. But it's getting better - I think the peptides have helped, and also the training in general might have had some spillover effect in the healing area.

 

[Docd187123]

Good stuff doc - thanks.

About the grip - I'm doing farmer's walks with the heavy dumbbells and kettlebells - give me a few months and I should be better at this. Thinking of setting up a 1.5" bar between two 6x6 posts outside so when spring comes I can do dead hangs - and of course pullups. As it is, my hand grip just isn't what it should be - had tendon issues too long that kept me from training that. But it's getting better - I think the peptides have helped, and also the training in general might have had some spillover effect in the healing area.

Anytime!

Here's a quote from. Mike Tuchscherer on some extra grip work

I've managed to improve my grip a lot in the last several months. Here's what I did... On all my work sets of deadlifts, I hold the last rep for an extra 6 count. Then after my last set I do 3 sets of 20 second holds. I increase the load of the holds each week.

The long holds are critical -- especially in the beginning. If you're having grip issues, you won't be able to hang on to a working set for an extra 6 count. So the longer holds allow you to get more volume in and get the process rolling enough to keep your grip during the heavy stuff.

This has worked really well with other lifters too. I train some guys who have small hands. This method has made it so grip is (finally) not a limiting factor in their deadlifts. This was the only thing that worked.

Other options include suitcase deadlifts, static hangs like you mentioned, fat bar grips, and many more. Hopefully you can strengthen your grip without aggravating your tendon issues.