Squat frequency

kasper2133

New Member
There seems to be an agreement on this forum that you should squat at least twice a week.

When I squat twice a week I end up with pain in the tendon above the knee, and my poundages drop. Im doing great when I keep my leg training to once a week, or every 5-6th day at the most both regarding strength and size.

Do you guys have any suggestion to my problem. I have tried to work it up slowly, but when the weights get heavy I always end up with pain and decreasing performance. How on earth can you squat heavy 3 times a week and still progress. Even the westsiders doesnt squat that much?
 
kasper2133 said:
There seems to be an agreement on this forum that you should squat at least twice a week.

When I squat twice a week I end up with pain in the tendon above the knee, and my poundages drop. Im doing great when I keep my leg training to once a week, or every 5-6th day at the most both regarding strength and size.

Do you guys have any suggestion to my problem. I have tried to work it up slowly, but when the weights get heavy I always end up with pain and decreasing performance. How on earth can you squat heavy 3 times a week and still progress. Even the westsiders doesnt squat that much?

you probably wouldn't have to squat to your full potential both days.. especially if you're having this problem.
 
SQ one day Fr SQ the other or similar or change rep ranges or load on one day vs the other if you back squat on all training days.

G
 
1) Wear neoprene sleeves on your knees when squatting

2) Make sure your weight is on your heels when you squat, and not on your toes - keep your back upright and chest high and try to keep your knees from going way, way out in front when you squat. (When you squat OLY style, your knees will have to go out past your ankles some, but try and limit it as best you can)

3) Squat all the way down to the ground or your knees will suffer.

4) Ice knees after wards

5) Take plenty of Omega 3s.

Matt
 
Agreement on this forum means that people with similar bodies, recovery times, etc. are all doing things the same way and getting the same good results from them. That's great for them!

So, you might try the advice given here...

But, you also said that squatting once a week or every 5-6 days has served you well. So, do what works for you then, especially if squatting twice a week causes you problems!

Dante
 
Like we stated, different strokes for different folks.
I competed in power for 18 yrs. For a short period I held the world record in the squat. 181lb class, 612lb squat
When training for power we never squated more than once a week.
My training partner was rated in the top 3 in his weight class (242's) by Power Lifing USA for over 5 years.
We both never squated more than once a week. Some of our guys were resting as much as 10 days between squats. (This was called super compensation, I think. It's been a while)
Of course this was strickly for strength and power!
Now I train more like a pussy bodybuilder J/K, LOL

PS, Now I weigh 240lbs, but squat less. (just a litte less, in my old age) LOL
Do what works for you!! :cool:
graybass
 
Look guys,

The fact is, many of you are just wrong.

Dante said,
"Agreement on this forum means that people with similar bodies, recovery times, etc. are all doing things the same way and getting the same good results from them."

Wrong. Let's see - I'm 275lbs and squat 800+. Freddy is like 140lbs and squats around 400 I believe. He is about 6 inches shorter than me. His body is different. His recovery is different. JS trains people from all walks of like, all age groups, all athletic abilities, men and women, football players, OLY lifters, powerlifters, bodybuilders, you name it. Hands down, we have found that squatting two or three times per week is nearly ALWAYS superior to squatting once per week, regardless of whether your goals are to get stronger or to get bigger.

Graybass, that's great that you held the World Record for squatting at one point. And I would never say that squatting once per week doesn't work - it does. But the fact is, squatting twice per week works better. Supercompensation has long been disproven as an inferior and incorrect form of training theory. Now, I'm sure you were squatting ridiculously heavy every week, which is great - and why, I'm sure, that you made good strength gains. However, things began to change 10 years ago when we in America began seeing what the Bulgarians, Romanians, and Russians were doing. They were DESTROYING us in Weightlifting and the reason why is because they were training much, much harder than we were by lifting heavy and often. Bulgarians max every single day - And they are some of the strongest guys in the world. Their CNS can handle it. They don't need the supercompensation theory to allow their bodies to fully recover before taking heavy singles again. They know how to load, deload, work hard, and train smarter than anybody else.

BioAS - "Quad Dominant" and "Hamstring Dominant" are moot points if you lift using heavy compound movements. Olympic squats aren't "quad dominant" - they are full body, "leg dominant" exercises. Same goes for deadlifts.

Now on your comments about squatting, I have not advocated squatting ultra heavy twice per week. I can't do that all the time. I usually have a heavy squat day and light suqat day. But I'm still squatting twice per week.

As far as isolation movements go, they are a complete waste of time. Why would you wear out your muscles first before squatting? That just doesn't make sense. If you are shooting for hypertrophy, then the goal is to recruit and fatigue the most number of MUs possible. Nothing recruits more MUs than squatting. If you are doing this isolation work for rahab only, that's fine - but I didn't want others to get confused and think that it is a superior way to gain muscle.

And finally, for the most part, Ian King is a moron. If you want to go against the crowd, squat 2-3 times per week. I would rather form an opinion based on what advanced scientsts and athletes have found after decades of studeis on training. The Russians and Bulgarians have proven what works. I'll stick with them.

Matt
 
AnimalMass said:
Now on your comments about squatting, I have not advocated squatting ultra heavy twice per week. I can't do that all the time. I usually have a heavy squat day and light suqat day. But I'm still squatting twice per week.

Matt

Well, that might work for strength, with a heavy day, and a speed day, but what about hypertrophy. Wouldnt the light day be a complete vast of time? Or do you consider a light day when training fx 5 x 5, and heavy when you go to a rm-max?

AnimalMass said:
As far as isolation movements go, they are a complete waste of time. Why would you wear out your muscles first before squatting? That just doesn't make sense. If you are shooting for hypertrophy, then the goal is to recruit and fatigue the most number of MUs possible. Nothing recruits more MUs than squatting. If you are doing this isolation work for rahab only, that's fine - but I didn't want others to get confused and think that it is a superior way to gain muscle

Matt

If you dont need leg extenstions and legcurls for legs, why do isolation for arms?

Another question. What do you think of Korte's 3 x 3 program. Low percentages, high volume and high frequency on the 3 main lifts. Would that be a good program to increase your frequency on squatting? Also would that work for hypertrophy, and would you add some assistance work?
 
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I believe you'll see that with DFHT, there is a heavy day (1-5rm) and a light day of 5x5 or 4x10 with back or front squats.

Just because it's lighter, doesn't mean it's not hard. It is hard. I think the heavy day will allow for optimal nueromuscular efficiency and myofibrillar hypertrophy, and the lighter day will be great for sarcoplasmic hypertrophy.

Good question about the arms. Why do isolation for the arms? I don't think you need to do isolation for the arms. JS has like 21-22" arms and he NEVER does direct work for them. If you are pressing heavy all the time, then there is little need for isolation work for the triceps. Now, I do think barbell curls are needed for biceps since they aren't fatigued much with strength exercises. But even then, barbell curls are a compound movement, not an isolation exercise.

You'll have to post Korte's 3x3 program. I'll take a look at it and tell you what I think.

Matt

ps - One last word here. Partly by my own fault, I believe this arguement has blown out of proportion a bit. The fact is 90% of guys in the gym don't squat at all (at least correctly). If you are squatting hard and heavy and all the way down to the ground once per week then you are doing more than 90% of American bodybuilders out there. However, I do believe that extensive work in the weightroom with myself, my friends, my mentors, hundreds of other athletes, and the studies form the Eastern Bloc countries over the past 50 years have proven that squatting two times per week to be superior to squatting once per week for both strength and hypertrophy.
 
Heres the program. I have copied from excell - can i attach a file in excell format? I have set the maxes to 100 kg, so that you can see the percentages. Will this be a good program to increase the squat frequency, as well as working for hypertropy, or do you think the 5x5 program will be better. Any assistance work needed?

THE 3X3 POWERLIFTING PROGRAM

CURRENT MAXES:
BENCH: 100 SQUAT: 100 DEADLIFT: 100

PROJECTED MAXES:
BENCH 105 SQUAT: 105 DEADLIFT: 105

PHASE 1 - HIGH VOLUME
Week Day(s) Lift Sets Reps Weight

1 Mon/Wed/Fri Bench 6 to 8 6 61
Mon/Wed/Fri Squat 5 to 8 5 61
Mon/Wed/Fri Deadlift 5 to 8 5 61

2 Mon/Wed/Fri Bench 6 to 8 6 63
Mon/Wed/Fri Squat 5 to 8 5 63
Mon/Wed/Fri Deadlift 5 to 8 5 63

3 Mon/Wed/Fri Bench 6 to 8 6 66
Mon/Wed/Fri Squat 5 to 8 5 66
Mon/Wed/Fri Deadlift 5 to 8 5 66

4 Mon/Wed/Fri Bench 6 to 8 6 68
Mon/Wed/Fri Squat 5 to 8 5 68
Mon/Wed/Fri Deadlift 5 to 8 5 68


PHASE 2 - HIGH INTENSITY
Week Day Sets/Reps Bench Squat Dead

1 Mon 5X4, 3X3, 2X1 63 63 84
Wed 2X1, 3X3, 3X3 84 63 63
Fri 5X4, 2X1, 3X3 63 84 63

2 Mon 5X4, 3X3, 2X1 63 63 90
Wed 2X1, 3X3, 3X3 90 63 63
Fri 5X4, 2X1, 3X3 63 90 63

3 Mon 5X4, 3X3, 2X1 63 63 95
Wed 2X1, 3X3, 3X3 95 63 63
Fri 5X4, 2X1, 3X3 63 95 63

4 Mon 5X4, 3X3, 2X1 63 63 100
Wed 2X1, 3X3, 3X3 100 63 63
Fri 5X4, 2X1, 3X3 63 100 63


The last four weeks of the program can be modified. The idea is to peak for strength here; it is not necessary to
follow the exact parameters of the peaking phase. Lifters I have talked to have informed me that the last four
weeks can be quite awkward, and that an alternate form of peaking may be in order. But the conditioning phase
(weeks 1-4) is where the strength is generated due to the incredible volume of training.
 
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AnimalMass said:
If you are shooting for hypertrophy, then the goal is to recruit and fatigue the most number of MUs possible.
Matt

Would you recommand shorter rest periods between sets when training for hypertrophy? Also, aren't higher reps better to fatigue the most number of MUs than fx 5x5. Or is it fiber dependant within the individual? Lower for people with mare fast twitch fiber, and higher reps for people with more balanced fiber types?
 
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You recruit more motor units the heavier you go, but the recruitment of motor units does not result in hypertrophy. While you could make a very general statement and say that those exercises that recruit more motor units are better for hypertrophy, this is immediately shot down when you look at the olympic lifts, which recruit a large number of MU's yet result in relatively little hypertrophy.

Your knee pain is likely an inflammation of the quadriceps tendon, which runs in a vertical fashion right above the knee. You should take ibuprofen and ice it after your lift as much as possible.

It is very possible for you to squat 2x per week, you just have to look at two key variables of training: volume and intensity. The Bulgarians were able to squat with high intensities (90% +) so often because their volume (# of reps) was low. Sure, they reportedly did max singles several times a week, but their volume was nowhere near what the average lifters were doing. This is not to say that their way is best, as it is not because most trainees would not be able to do this because of the intense neuromuscular fatigue such a program would cause.

For you, though, I would look at what % of your max you are working with and how many reps you are doing. Start to mess around with these variables until you find a way to do it, because I will agree that squatting twice a week is possible and better for most.

Also, I would suggest looking at a book called "Periodization Breakthrough" by Fleck and Kraemer (two respected researchers in the field) which explains the components of periodization very well and in a way that anyone can understand. There are better and more advanced books out there, but this one is a very good intro. Squatting twice a week is tricky since it is such a taxing exercise, but if you understand periodization principles and can apply them to your training you will be fine.

J DUB, CSCS, USAW
 
Korte's program is ok. I have a good bud who has made really fantastic gains off of it. He's pretty strong, around 200 pounds bodyweight, lean, and powercleans 365+ and olympic squats in the mid 500s. 300+ strict overhead press. Strong kid.

However, generally speaking, I think there are better programs. JS's squat program has worked for literally thousands of athletes. Something VERY similar (if not the same program exactly) is also used by the elite weightlifters at Colorado springs.

So for that reason, I would be more inclined to use JS's program. Its just more likely to work for any given athlete.

I tried Korte's program myself, I didn't have a lot of success with it. But others have.

AnimalMass made some real good posts. Anyone can squat at least twice a week. Everyone I've ever trained with has. Same with AnimalMass. JS has trained hundreds of athletes, and ALL of them were capable of it.

This doesn't mean its a pleasent experience. One of JS's best athletes has to squat 3-4 times a week, hard, and he is CONSTANTLY sore and miserable. BUT he's an elite athlete, and when he squats less hard, his training goes down the shitter. He can't afford to be a pussy about it, so he has little choice.
 
Animal:

Point taken, accepted and understood!

Probably in over my head on giving "good" advice on this thread.

As an addition to my ramblings, I would now have to say, after reading and doing more research on the topics, that individuals should work within the "proven guidelines" that are accepted by the most knowledgable in the "Strength and Bodybuilding Industry" to find a training program that best fits their needs and benefits them most!

Dante
 
I squat twice a week no matter what, even before I started to doing squats correctly, ass to the floor, I squatted twice per week. Im not sure why people make such a big deal with it comes to squats, I love them, between DL's and squat's im not sure which I like more. Just like you bench twice a week, why cant you squat. Hell I can't wait until im done with my diet so I can start squatting three times a week.

-thank you-
 
Knockdown: You're out of your freaking mind! lol

I agree that squats and dl's are good for you, squats may be the best one exercise you can do... but man I don't like to do them...

Dante
 
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