Start PCT 35 days after last Test E injection?! I'm confused...

[Texas.Redneck]

I just read the comprehensive guide to PCT sticky post in this forum and I got completely thrown for a loop when I read that after 500mg a week of Test E you start PCT 35 days after last injection. Is that what you guys on Meso are following for PCT protocol?

I've just never seen anyone recommend anything other than 14 days after last injection for Enanthate and Cyp. I've seen lots of conflicting recommendations for Propionate anywhere between 3-7 days after last injection. I hadn't ever read anything up until I opened this sticky that said wait over a month to start PCT... I mean that is one way for certain to be sure all the half lives have run their course i suppose...

I was mapping out my PCT in my cycle tracker and was personally airing on the side of caution and just going to wait an extra day or 2 but hadn't considered waiting an extra 2 weeks just to be safe. Even more than two weeks 35 days minus your typical 14 days is equivalent of waiting an extra 3 weeks. So everything else I read about Cyp and Enanth PCT start dates is wrong?

 

[kaizoku]

So everything else I read about Cyp and Enanth PCT start dates is wrong?

In a word: yes.

You want test levels to be below pre-cycle natural levels.

Depending on how fast your body metabolizes test, 14 days after last pin you're probably still going to have too much exogenous test in your system for an effective PCT.

 

[Eman]

Starting pct 2 weeks after last cyp pin is way too early.

3 weeks is sufficient normally, depending on the dose.

Starting PCT after just 3 days off of prop is very wrong.

 

[Sk8man101]

Yes there is conflicting information out there. Sucks because it really fucks people up when it comes to recovery.
The 2 week rule is broscience.

third week of pct, libido death! please help

 

[Dohn joe]

Basically you need to get your test low so the pct drugs can have the desired result of kickstartimg your natural t production. If your t levels are still high then your body wont want to produce its own. You want your t levels to be back to post cycle levels and if you start after 2 weeks, which is roughly 2 half lives of test cyp and e, then your levels will still be way too high and your body wont be ready to recover.

If you do some math you can figure out where your t levels, in terms of mg, are each week and go from there for your pct start date. Im aiming for 4 or 5 half lives for my start date.

You could alternatively switch over to test p for the last 4 weeks or so and that will shorten your wait for pct. Ultimately shortening the time you are shut down.

 

[Texas.Redneck]

Starting pct 2 weeks after last cyp pin is way too early.

3 weeks is sufficient normally, depending on the dose.

Starting PCT after just 3 days off of prop is very wrong.

Honestly, the last two times I came off 500mg/week test cycles the transition was relatively seamless and I didn't notice a thing. I did the 2 week rule, only ran clomid and nolva for 2 weeks and then just quit taking the drugs altogether because I felt fine. I've never noticed anything really as far as side effects (also do minor doses of HCG while on cycle). i never felt a crash in gym performance or libido, other than I felt like I wasn't on steroids anymore. Subsequently got labs a few months later and everything was back where it was before I started. So either 2 week rule followed by 2 weeks of clomid/nolva worked just fine for me or my body just bounced back on its own regardless of following a right or wrong PCT protocol.

That being said, I'm not taking past experiences for granite. I always try to plan out a proper PCT. For this cycle, I did HCG 500iu/week for last 4 weeks on cycle and I was planning to start Clomid/Nolva on the 16th day after my last Cyp injection which will be the 8th day after last Prop injections. I thought I was conservatively giving myself a couple days beyond the "2 week" rule until I read the sticky here.

Can anyone point me to a non-Meso article to support this 35 day rule? No offense, but this is Meso and it's just some shitty sticky some douche stuck there making this claims. It would be nice to corroborate this position...

 

[Texas.Redneck]

Well if we all agree the 8th day after Prop is probably sufficient for propionate to clear system, then I can extend cycle with another shot of prop which will push me out pretty close to the 3 week Cyp rule...

Basically you need to get your test low so the pct drugs can have the desired result of kickstartimg your natural t production. If your t levels are still high then your body wont want to produce its own. You want your t levels to be back to post cycle levels and if you start after 2 weeks, which is roughly 2 half lives of test cyp and e, then your levels will still be way too high and your body wont be ready to recover.

If you do some math you can figure out where your t levels, in terms of mg, are each week and go from there for your pct start date. Im aiming for 4 or 5 half lives for my start date.

You could alternatively switch over to test p for the last 4 weeks or so and that will shorten your wait for pct. Ultimately shortening the time you are shut down.

 

[Eman]

Honestly, the last two times I came off 500mg/week test cycles the transition was relatively seamless and I didn't notice a thing. I did the 2 week rule, only ran clomid and nolva for 2 weeks and then just quit taking the drugs altogether because I felt fine. I've never noticed anything really as far as side effects (also do minor doses of HCG while on cycle). i never felt a crash in gym performance or libido, other than I felt like I wasn't on steroids anymore. Subsequently got labs a few months later and everything was back where it was before I started. So either 2 week rule followed by 2 weeks of clomid/nolva worked just fine for me or my body just bounced back on its own regardless of following a right or wrong PCT protocol.

That being said, I'm not taking past experiences for granite. I always try to plan out a proper PCT. For this cycle, I did HCG 500iu/week for last 4 weeks on cycle and I was planning to start Clomid/Nolva on the 16th day after my last Cyp injection which will be the 8th day after last Prop injections. I thought I was conservatively giving myself a couple days beyond the "2 week" rule until I read the sticky here.

Can anyone point me to a non-Meso article to support this 35 day rule? No offense, but this is Meso and it's just some shitty sticky some douche stuck there making this claims. It would be nice to corroborate this position...

You can graph it out on steroidcalc.

35 days is too long for 500mg though. I'm not sure how much you would need to take to warrant 35 days before PCT... Quite a bit though.

 

[Texas.Redneck]

You can graph it out on steroidcalc.

35 days is too long for 500mg though. I'm not sure how much you would need to take to warrant 35 days before PCT... Quite a bit though.

Well that is the exact example the sticky article uses which is why I have to throw a bullshit flag on the scientific validity of that post. It says Enanthate 500mg/week wait 35 days for PCT.

 

[Eman]

Well that is the exact example the sticky article uses which is why I have to throw a bullshit flag on the scientific validity of that post. It says Enanthate 500mg/week wait 35 days for PCT.

I know dude lol, you've posted it like 6 times.

You're misquoting it though, or misrepresenting the information, in the sticky.

The full reference is as follows:

Enanthate has a half life of 5 days +/- 2.5 days (I will use a 7 day calculation to air on the side of caution)

A 12wk cycle of test e at 500mg per week will put ex Test at around 1000mg
(500mg+250+125+62.5+31.25 etc = 1000mg)

This means it will take 5 half lives to reach ex test at or below 50mg therefore time between last injection and start of PCT is 35 days.

So theoretically, it could take as long as 35 days before you've reached 50mg. However, you don't need to reach 50mg. He's just using the high side just to make a point.

Again, graph it out so you have an idea. Pull bloods if you want to know for sure... The way you're running PCT now is going to eventually lead you to problems.

 

[Texas.Redneck]

... The way you're running PCT now is going to eventually lead you to problems.

Well I figured something wasn't right about the fact I just smoothly transitioned off Test and didn't have any negative side effects at all. Maybe because I'm still relatively young, healthy, in good shape and don't cycle more than once a year and that I stick to relatively basic cycles of primarily only Testosterone (dabbled with Tbol this time)....

 

[Eman]

Well I figured something wasn't right about the fact I just smoothly transitioned off Test and didn't have any negative side effects at all. Maybe because I'm still relatively young, healthy, in good shape and don't cycle more than once a year and that I stick to relatively basic cycles of primarily only Testosterone (dabbled with Tbol this time)....

Test only will tend to be pretty forgiving. Doing this incorrectly with a 19-nor will probably give you a different experience.

With that said, some guys are able to recover a lot easier than others... But I think it will always catch up with you eventually.

 

[Texas.Redneck]

Test only will tend to be pretty forgiving. Doing this incorrectly with a 19-nor will probably give you a different experience.

With that said, some guys are able to recover a lot easier than others... But I think it will always catch up with you eventually.

is Nandrolone a 19-nor? I was thinking about trying Test PP/NPP stack for next cycle. 8-10 weeks. it would be 300mg of each per week (m/w/f pins) and I'd probably run the test an extra week after the NPP.

 

[Eman]

is Nandrolone a 19-nor? I was thinking about trying Test PP/NPP stack for next cycle. 8-10 weeks. it would be 300mg of each per week (m/w/f pins) and I'd probably run the test an extra week after the NPP.

Yes.

Just graph out your cycle and start your PCT when the levels have nearly bottomed out. There's no sense in starting PCT early even if you're just on test... The drugs are going to do anything until the exogenous hormone levels are bottomed out.

 

[Texas.Redneck]

You can graph it out on steroidcalc.

35 days is too long for 500mg though. I'm not sure how much you would need to take to warrant 35 days before PCT... Quite a bit though.

I just used this thing to graph out my cycle which was 470mg/week Cyp weeks 1-12 and 100mg/prop eod for week 13 and it has me dropping below 50 back to my day 0 test levels on day 92. That is roughly 11 days after last cyp injection and 3 days after last prop injection. So now even more confused as I got results even less than the 2 week rule.

 

[kaizoku]

You could also just go get bloodwork post-cycle but before PCT.

2-3 weeks after last pin get bloods.
If test is higher than pre-cycle wait another week or two before starting PCT. If test is lower than pre-cycle, start PCT.

 

[Dohn joe]

^ this is the path i will be taking with my original pct start date 32 days after last injection. Bloods tell all.