Sustanon/Dbol to kickstart TestCyp/ Masteron/Anavar

[JJdigs81]

Hello gentlemen. I’m fairly new here to MESO however not new to the forums or AAS... I’ve introduced myself over at the new member section so I’m hoping I could get a thread going about the possibilities of a cycle like this and to see all the different opinions and options guys can come up with.

Please note my history and stats at the end of my post... always good to have some info when possibly giving some suggestions to someone.

As you can see in my stats I’ve gained some bodyfat... it’s higher than it has been in recent years. Obviously nutrition, exercise and other factors are more in play when it comes to lowering bodyfat more than any AAS. And for the last several months I’ve had my food in-check and my training is a 5 day split/1 off day of a HIIt session/1 day off for total recovery.

The last and least important part of this is the AAS. What would you do differently? How would you change this run and even what compounds would you take out or add? I’m open to all knowledge, suggestions and different view points.

1-18 Test Cyp @ 500mg wk(E4D250mg)
1-4 Dbol @50mg ED -kickstart
1-3 Sustanon250 @250mg wk- kickstart
1-21 HGH 3-4 iu ED
6- 18 Masteron E @500mg wk
6- 18 Anavar/30mg ED/50mg ED/70mg ED *low dosage first few wk’s then pyramid upward with higher dosages. Using Anavar for anti-catabolic affects)
1-18 Aromasin/ As Needed
**Nolva on hand**

Notes: I’m looking to use Anavar for longer than a typical 4 or 6 week cycle and I’m looking to run it longer at lower dosages for a lot of the benefits it offers. I’ll Pyramid the dosage up as the weeks go and based off how I feel and the pumps(LOL).

The Dbol looks out of place here but I know how I react to it and I respond really well to it. As long as my nutrition is in check I don’t bloat too much at all. I like the strength increase the mental edge it gives me. So that’s the reason it’s in there.

I’d like to hear guys views on using Sust to kickstart the cycle while the Cyp kicks in. I have it wk’s 1-3. This is on top of starting the Cyp wk 1.

I won’t be PCT’ing as I am on TRT and will go into an immediate cruise at 300mg Test E wk.

Blood work monitoring throughout... especially liver values as I’m running two Orals. LIV52 taken throughout as well as other vitamins and minerals helping in liver function.

My history and Stats.

I’m 39 y/o (40 in several months )
I’m 6’4
248lbs
Between 12-16% bodyfat (estimated)

I’ve run AAS off and on for many years. I’m not an expert by any means. I know what has worked for me personally and I’ll be honest a lot of finding out what worked for me was a lot of finding out what doesn’t work for me and through that process you learn your do’s and don’ts. I’ve never done anything super crazy or super dangerous... but I have pushed the limits in some areas.

Compounds I’ve used:

Test (p,c,e,sus, Depot, TNE)
Tren Ace (no Tren E)
EQ
Deca
NPP
Winstrol (oral only)
D-bol
Anavar
Primo
HGH (Chinese synthetic/Not Pharma Grade)
Slin


Current Nutrition/macros

M,T,W,T,F,S ——> Sun calorie Surplus

5,000 calories ED

Protein 370g
Carbs 600g
Fats 170g

***Food from no cheat meals. Eggs, chicken, steak, fish, sweet potatoes, greens, rice, avocados, bread, protein shakes, milk, ect...

(5k isn’t a lot but eating it clean is much harder for me)

Sunday——> 6,000 calories
(2) cheat meals

Cycle lengths have been between 10 wk and the longest was a 24 wk.


I’ve run TRT for 5 years with a 2 year period blasting and cruising using Test E.

Goals:

Drop/shed bodyfat down to under 8%
Add lean muscle. Happy with 2-3 pounds of lean mass. Keep water retention under control and solid strength gains throughout. Stay with the training program. Don’t miss days of training, days of eating, nights of sleeping. This is an all fucking hands on deck... shut your personal life down 21 weeks of torture, pain and lifestyle changes.

I’m definitely looking forward to hearing what anyone has on this one, lol. It’s not a crazy blast but it is different to the typical way some people do things... so chim in! What can I do to make this the most reliable and progressive 21 weeks!?
Thanks men!

I look forward to talking with everyone... anyone else a Veteran here?

Infantry! Wardak, Afghanistan 2011-2012

 

[Spokeonawheel]

You want to shed fat? Your diet looks like a bulker. I weigh 15 lbs less than you but at 5K calories im doing nothing but getting larger amd i will gain fat at those cals...no matter how clean.

Is shedding fat a general goal or is that the goal of this cycle?

 

[Oldschool]

Hello gentlemen. I’m fairly new here to MESO however not new to the forums or AAS... I’ve introduced myself over at the new member section so I’m hoping I could get a thread going about the possibilities of a cycle like this and to see all the different opinions and options guys can come up with.

Please note my history and stats at the end of my post... always good to have some info when possibly giving some suggestions to someone.

As you can see in my stats I’ve gained some bodyfat... it’s higher than it has been in recent years. Obviously nutrition, exercise and other factors are more in play when it comes to lowering bodyfat more than any AAS. And for the last several months I’ve had my food in-check and my training is a 5 day split/1 off day of a HIIt session/1 day off for total recovery.

The last and least important part of this is the AAS. What would you do differently? How would you change this run and even what compounds would you take out or add? I’m open to all knowledge, suggestions and different view points.

1-18 Test Cyp @ 500mg wk(E4D250mg)
1-4 Dbol @50mg ED -kickstart
1-3 Sustanon250 @250mg wk- kickstart
1-21 HGH 3-4 iu ED
6- 18 Masteron E @500mg wk
6- 18 Anavar/30mg ED/50mg ED/70mg ED *low dosage first few wk’s then pyramid upward with higher dosages. Using Anavar for anti-catabolic affects)
1-18 Aromasin/ As Needed
**Nolva on hand**

Notes: I’m looking to use Anavar for longer than a typical 4 or 6 week cycle and I’m looking to run it longer at lower dosages for a lot of the benefits it offers. I’ll Pyramid the dosage up as the weeks go and based off how I feel and the pumps(LOL).

The Dbol looks out of place here but I know how I react to it and I respond really well to it. As long as my nutrition is in check I don’t bloat too much at all. I like the strength increase the mental edge it gives me. So that’s the reason it’s in there.

I’d like to hear guys views on using Sust to kickstart the cycle while the Cyp kicks in. I have it wk’s 1-3. This is on top of starting the Cyp wk 1.

I won’t be PCT’ing as I am on TRT and will go into an immediate cruise at 300mg Test E wk.

Blood work monitoring throughout... especially liver values as I’m running two Orals. LIV52 taken throughout as well as other vitamins and minerals helping in liver function.

My history and Stats.

I’m 39 y/o (40 in several months )
I’m 6’4
248lbs
Between 12-16% bodyfat (estimated)

I’ve run AAS off and on for many years. I’m not an expert by any means. I know what has worked for me personally and I’ll be honest a lot of finding out what worked for me was a lot of finding out what doesn’t work for me and through that process you learn your do’s and don’ts. I’ve never done anything super crazy or super dangerous... but I have pushed the limits in some areas.

Compounds I’ve used:

Test (p,c,e,sus, Depot, TNE)
Tren Ace (no Tren E)
EQ
Deca
NPP
Winstrol (oral only)
D-bol
Anavar
Primo
HGH (Chinese synthetic/Not Pharma Grade)
Slin


Current Nutrition/macros

M,T,W,T,F,S ——> Sun calorie Surplus

5,000 calories ED

Protein 370g
Carbs 600g
Fats 170g

***Food from no cheat meals. Eggs, chicken, steak, fish, sweet potatoes, greens, rice, avocados, bread, protein shakes, milk, ect...

(5k isn’t a lot but eating it clean is much harder for me)

Sunday——> 6,000 calories
(2) cheat meals

Cycle lengths have been between 10 wk and the longest was a 24 wk.


I’ve run TRT for 5 years with a 2 year period blasting and cruising using Test E.

Goals:

Drop/shed bodyfat down to under 8%
Add lean muscle. Happy with 2-3 pounds of lean mass. Keep water retention under control and solid strength gains throughout. Stay with the training program. Don’t miss days of training, days of eating, nights of sleeping. This is an all fucking hands on deck... shut your personal life down 21 weeks of torture, pain and lifestyle changes.

I’m definitely looking forward to hearing what anyone has on this one, lol. It’s not a crazy blast but it is different to the typical way some people do things... so chim in! What can I do to make this the most reliable and progressive 21 weeks!?
Thanks men!

I look forward to talking with everyone... anyone else a Veteran here?

Infantry! Wardak, Afghanistan 2011-2012

First thanks for your service!
Like the cycle plan. Pretty simple but solid. I see nothing wrong with the sust to kick things off. More experienced guys will chime in I’m sure. Enjoy the blast. Welcome to MESO!

 

[Spokeonawheel]

As far as sust Kickstart weeks 1 to 3.....you've already got the dbol. If you really wanted to go ahead and push the test use test P or A.
However, I'm more for letting things build and increasing dosages on the back end. Like I'd rather see u randomly throw in sust at the end of the cycle rather than the start.

Just random thoughts.

Looks like a pretty down to earth cycle for the most part. I do like masteron and if I was gonna run an oral for 12 weeks it would be var.

Good luck to you bub. When does cycle start?

 

[JJdigs81]

At work at the moment but thanks everyone!

I do like that idea to throw the Sus in at the end of the cycle... hmmmm. I think I’ve usually stayed away from Sus during some cycles because it complicates the pct. Although in my case I’m not pct’ing so it makes a ton of sense.

Would you pyramid the Sus? Or keep it at the same dosage from the start to the end?

Thanks everyone for your posts.

I’m think two weeks will be the start date

 

[JJdigs81]

You want to shed fat? Your diet looks like a bulker. I weigh 15 lbs less than you but at 5K calories im doing nothing but getting larger amd i will gain fat at those cals...no matter how clean.

Is shedding fat a general goal or is that the goal of this cycle?

Well that’s the goal.. I’d like to shed fat and recomp to be honest. I’m not well versed in the best way to go about this. So I’m all ears man... truly if you have some suggestions I’d love to hear it. Even point me in a direction and I’ll read about it.
I’ve always associated clean eating with lean mass and usually because of my job being so labor intensive I’m on the go constantly and burning massive amounts of calories. This requires me to go into a surplus or I’ll start losing muscle mass.

I’ve just never been great at knowing what to do when recomping/shredding fat and I’m always trying to prevent muscle loss...

 

[cochino]

At work at the moment but thanks everyone!

I do like that idea to throw the Sus in at the end of the cycle... hmmmm. I think I’ve usually stayed away from Sus during some cycles because it complicates the pct. Although in my case I’m not pct’ing so it makes a ton of sense.

Would you pyramid the Sus? Or keep it at the same dosage from the start to the end?

Thanks everyone for your posts.

I’m think two weeks will be the start date

I think Sustanon is a shit drug. Too many esters requires you to pin frequently for optimal results. If I'm going to do that (and I do) I go with prop for faster results. Just add to my trt dose of cyp. Propinate, cypionate and enanthate are far superior to Sustanon.

 

[Spokeonawheel]

I was thinking about your 5k caks the other day after I left that comment.

Your running GH. Your burning a lot of cals at work. Your a pretty big guy....is this really maintenance cals? No weight gain or loss at this diet? Are you tracking cals or guessing?

I recently finished what was supposed to be a lean bulk where I slowly raised cals up from maintenance. I have been tracking every bit of food for like 6 months straight meticulously, but then I got a little lazy. Figured I know how to eat clean. I'll eat clean and eat plenty and won't worry about tracking as much. Well, what I thought was about a 4k cal diet was probably much closer to 4.5k. I came off a cut and was looking for like maybe 5 pounds lean. I gained 15lbs in 8 weeks. Gained back probably 2%BF in the process. The point is this: diet is tricky.

I'm similar to you in that it is not hard for me to eat. A lot. This is a fucking awesome asset for us, but it can cause trouble.

If you want to lean down, don't be afraid to eat less. You'll have to be in a deficit to burn fat. No way around it. You're not gonna lose muscle eating at a small deficit. This is my experience. If we are talking about show condition, there I dont have experience. But that is another level of lean and low BF that I dont think is your goal rt now.

Last cut, I lost 15 lbs. I got a lot of comments about looking a lot bigger. Cutting is weird like that.


Well, I wrote you a couple chapters. Hope some of it helps. Glad to.share any experience I have, but that is all I will do. If I don't have experience I just keep my mouth shut. If you need anything holler.

 

[Spokeonawheel]

As far as the gear,

Week 1-10
Test cyp 500 mg weekly
Mast 400 mg weekly

Week 11-18
Test cyp 750 mg weekly
Mast 600 mg weekly

Thats all I'd change. If you decide on a cut: maybe I'd drop the dbol entirely. And you could get by with less than this.

But I like this because as the cycle progresses your dosages raise and you get new stimulus. I like the way you are pyramiding the var.

 

[Iron_Yuppie]

So the Sust doesn’t fit in there as a kickstarter at all. You’re functionally getting an extra 90mg/w of two short esters, which doesn’t seem like enough to warrant the use of it.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

I would run
50mg prop eod or 125 e 2x weekly
50-75 mast prop eod or 200e 2x weekly
100mg tren a eod
Mid blast you're going to blast
Clen ECA 4-5 weeks

And then you just continue your program
Or blast anavar 6-8 weeks

And then when you're lean
I would add boldenone
And change the tren a with npp

In the end you're lean big
And you have a nice strong versatile anabolic base
Test,EQ,Npp,Mast
You can do whatever you want and adjust the dosages
Recomp, Maintance ,cut,mass

 

[Test_Subject]

The sust kickstart is kind of weird.

You're already running dbol at a pretty decent dose so three weeks of sustanon is not even going to be noticeable. Even without the dbol, sust is largely long esters; you won't get much from it. You'd end up with 90mg a week of short esters from 250mg of sust. That's not even a TRT dose worth. As far as strength boosts, you'd probably get more from a strong pre-workout.

If you're dead-set on doing an injectable kickstart, I'd drop the dbol entirely and run straight test prop at 350-500mg a week for the first four weeks.

 

[EazyE]

I would drop the Sust and Dbol. Sust brings no extra value over other esters. I would use Anadrol instead of the Dbol if you want to kickstart with an oral. I like the idea of a Test P kickstart to the cycle as @Test_Subject mentioned.

 

[MuscleFreak]

Drop the sust just use cyp,most sust are shit due to brewing they cook all esters together and for prop u need much higher temp then Let's say cyp...also kickstart cycle with oral makes zero sense,u will be toxic right from the start od the cycle and u have another 20 weeks before u come off and detox and second orals don't bind hard to AR so by themself they can't built lean tissue only extra water weight but if u have injectables that already reach staple blood lvl lile mast, deca, primo etc now orals makes sense cause with them u will get extra strenght, aggression and do more muscle damage after that injectables repair that and grow bigger stronger muscle

 

[Test_Subject]

orals don't bind hard to AR so by themself they can't built lean tissue only extra water weight

That's simply not true.

The muscle building effects of quite a few oral steroids are well-studied because many of them either have legitimate medical uses or were developed with the intention of being used for medical purposes. Even with the ones that don't have literature to back their efficacy -- are you honestly going to tell me that superdrol doesn't build muscle?

Anadrol and Anavar both have scientific literature on their contributions to muscle growth in human subjects.

 

[JJdigs81]

Now this is why I’m here at Meso... I’ve forgotten what an actual community looks like... coming from ASF I’m blown away at all the responses boys

Ok so I’m tracking on the Sus on the kickstart... reading all of the responses I guess I never thought of it being broken down to only 90mg.

I like the suggestions... one guy wants me on every AAS possible, lmao. Kidding lol.

I was thinking about your 5k caks the other day after I left that comment.

Your running GH. Your burning a lot of cals at work. Your a pretty big guy....is this really maintenance cals? No weight gain or loss at this diet? Are you tracking cals or guessing?

I recently finished what was supposed to be a lean bulk where I slowly raised cals up from maintenance. I have been tracking every bit of food for like 6 months straight meticulously, but then I got a little lazy. Figured I know how to eat clean. I'll eat clean and eat plenty and won't worry about tracking as much. Well, what I thought was about a 4k cal diet was probably much closer to 4.5k. I came off a cut and was looking for like maybe 5 pounds lean. I gained 15lbs in 8 weeks. Gained back probably 2%BF in the process. The point is this: diet is tricky.

Man that’s great info brother! And yea you know the other day as I was writhing the post... when I was writing I was thinking I have everything down pretty good... good direction... well planned but you know even before you mentioned this... I think I need some more work on my nutrition. Your post really made me think... because I feel like I have to dial my macros in. And also change up what I’m eating and how much.

Just what you said... you lost 15lbs but you look bigger. That’s what I need to do... I really need to lose some bad fat but still stay building muscle. I don’t know because now I’m a little confused as to what I should do... nothing wrong with admitting that right?!? Lol.

Thats why we plan these things out right? And start conversations like these... so everyone can benefit from all the different mindsets and theories. I think after reading what Spokeonwheel said I may push the pause button and dial in the nutritional aspect first. I don’t want to be running anything if my nutrition isn’t leading the charge and is down to how I want it.

I’m obviously going to look for articles (I don’t expect anyone to spoon feed me) however if anyone has an idea or knows of a good thread to look into... I’m all ears.


Thanks TestSubject, MuscleFreak, AlwaysHungry,EasyE,Yuppie, cochino... anyone else I missed Thanks gents.

 

[JJdigs81]

No test Prop in the arsenal at the moment:/

I’m still new here so I need to figure out the land and hopefully get something going where I can change that, lol. In good time

The sust kickstart is kind of weird.

You're already running dbol at a pretty decent dose so three weeks of sustanon is not even going to be noticeable. Even without the dbol, sust is largely long esters; you won't get much from it. You'd end up with 90mg a week of short esters from 250mg of sust. That's not even a TRT dose worth. As far as strength boosts, you'd probably get more from a strong pre-workout.

If you're dead-set on doing an injectable kickstart, I'd drop the dbol entirely and run straight test prop at 350-500mg a week for the first four weeks.

 

[Spokeonawheel]

Here's an idea. Instead of one long 18 week cycle.

6 week cut cycle.
6 week cruise
10 week lean bulk.

The cut won't need a lot of gear. You will need fast acting esters, but there are workarounds to use what you have. Cut at say 500 cal deficit. Drop to where you want BF wise.

Cruise and recover.

Bulk at just over maint cals adding cals in as needed as long as the mirror says you aren't gaining fat.

I feel like this gives you a cycle where you get to commit more to a true cut, then a bulk.

Just throwing out ideas, this would only take a few more weeks than original plan and feels more focussed.