swale-your hcg protocl

[mxim]

before you start your patients on hrt,do you give them various dosages of hcg and collect blood work to determine how much hcg would be needed on an individualized basis? for example,you usually recommend 250 iu 2x weekly in conjunction with T. however, would'nt it be good to know if each respective patient responds to 250 iu befoe T is administered? its quite possible that 250 iu of hcg does nothing to patients with primary hypogonadism. i would thank that blood work after 2 shots of 250 iu or even 1 shot would be logical,then perhaps upping the dosage to 500iu if needed. finally,with regards to testosterone,would blood work just 1 week after the first shot render `the same results that would arise after 2 monts. i was using 100mgs of cypionate and had by levels checked 7 days after my last shot(an hour before my next),my level was around 610. this was after 2 monts,would they of still been 610 after only a week or does it take time to build up?
thanks

 

[buck]

I believe that Swale states that it takes 5 weeks for the T levels to stabilize due to the half life of the cyp ester. As for the hcg I would think that you would get a diferent responce from it once you were on T replacement then you would by using it alone. It is being used as an adjunct to the T so you would want that stabilized first.

 

[mxim]

yes,but would'nt you want to know what dose works best. if you use 250iu of hcg and it barely moves your T levels,whats the point? that means that dosage will not prevent atrophy so a higher dosage would be recommended. i do agree that no more than 500iu should be used at a time.

 

[SWALE]

No. That would be way more trouble and expense than it would be worth. Besides, the variable production of the body's own testosterone, and variable release of the HCG, would effectively negate such results.

I do not think we should use more than 250IU of HCG per day now. If you need more, take it more days.

With Primary Hypogonadism, taking more HCG may not elevate T levels, but will cause increases in 17-OHP, and this can cause gyno on its own.

 

[pmgamer18]

I am confused?

I have been on TRT for 21 yrs and I am Primary I read SWALE paper on adding HCG to the mix. I asked my Dr. if it would help and he felt no. Because my Testis don't work. SWALE is he right.
Phil

 

[SWALE]

No. He probably feels that since you suffer primary hypogonadism (I am guessing) there is no use in adding HCG to your protocol. There are several reasons why this is not so. First, you have not lost all Leydig cells, so any HCG you take will stimulate those who still function to produce endogenous testosterone.

This will support testicular size. We should not ignore this aesthetic consideration.

Next, if he reads my work, he will learn that HPTA-suppressed (as all TRT patients are to some extent) also suffer decreased pregenenolone levels, which is the first step after CHOL in all three hormonal pathways which begin with CHOL. HCG increases pregnenolone production, and therefore restores a more natural balance of our hormones.

Next, nearly all TRT patients who add in HCG to their regimens report an increased sense of well-being and also libido. These are genuine quality of life issues.

Finally, I just instinctively do not want all those LH receptors (including those we have yet to discover and appreciate) unstimulated.