Switching AI's on heavy runs. Adex to Letro

[penche]

Sup gentlemen, got a question.
Recently ran a cycle of 800mg test and 400mg NPP per week, 12 weeks total. Had to take 6mg of adex total per week to keep estrodial at 36pg/ml.

Took some time off and started the same run again but added 400~500mg of pellet Tren per week. So total anabolics is 1600~1700mg per week. It's been a great run so far. However, Ive recently switched from Anastrozole to letro. The switch is more cost effective for me. 30 pills of letro cost me the same as 30 pills of adex. I'll use 2 pills of letro per week vs 6 pills of adex per week.

My letro dose is about .8mg per day and the tabs I have are 2.5mg. Been on this dose for about 1 week. Sex drive still high and no achy joints. I was gonna go on this dose another 2 weeks then check total test and sensitive estrodial test. Anyone think this isn't enough time for accurate results?

Found this info on half life of letro and pharmacokinetics.

Letrozole’s terminal elimination half-life is about 2 days and steady-state plasma concentration after daily 2.5 mg dosing is reached in 2-6 weeks.

Femara ® (letrozole tablets) 2.5 mg Tablets Rx only Prescribing Information


Bill Roberts suggests no more than 1mg per day. I understand everyone is different hence why I'm testing.

I recommend about 0.36 mg/day as a base amount for an anabolic steroid cycle with a modest amount of aromatizable steroids, such as 200-300 mg/week testosterone. At a higher dose such as 750 mg/week, this amount will usually be doubled. Generally no more than 1 mg/day should be taken unless blood testing shows abnormally high estradiol even at that level, but that’s rarely the case.

Letrozole Profile

All thoughts welcomed. @Dr JIM too

 

[penche]

@Docd187123 you think 2~3 weeks is enough to get a accurate result on E2 while on letro?

 

[trying to get big]

Sup gentlemen, got a question.
Recently ran a cycle of 800mg test and 400mg NPP per week, 12 weeks total. Had to take 6mg of adex total per week to keep estrodial at 36pg/ml.

Took some time off and started the same run again but added 400~500mg of pellet Tren per week. So total anabolics is 1600~1700mg per week. It's been a great run so far. However, Ive recently switched from Anastrozole to letro. The switch is more cost effective for me. 30 pills of letro cost me the same as 30 pills of adex. I'll use 2 pills of letro per week vs 6 pills of adex per week.

My letro dose is about .8mg per day and the tabs I have are 2.5mg. Been on this dose for about 1 week. Sex drive still high and no achy joints. I was gonna go on this dose another 2 weeks then check total test and sensitive estrodial test. Anyone think this isn't enough time for accurate results?

Found this info on half life of letro and pharmacokinetics.
Femara ® (letrozole tablets) 2.5 mg Tablets Rx only Prescribing Information


Bill Roberts suggests no more than 1mg per day. I understand everyone is different hence why I'm testing.

Letrozole Profile

All thoughts welcomed. @Dr JIM too

So im curious are taking your doses on like mon and fri?? Im thinking of doin the same thing i have to take 1mg a day of adex.

 

[penche]

So im curious are taking your doses on like mon and fri?? Im thinking of doin the same thing i have to take 1mg a day of adex.

Here it is brother.

Mon. 70mg Tren, 140mg NPP, 1mg Adex,
60mg Raloxifene.

Tues. 70mg Tren, 1mg Adex, 60mg raloxifene

Wed. 400mg Test C, 140mg NPP, 70mg Tren, .5mg Adex, 60mg raloxifene

Thurs. 70mg Tren, 1mg Adex, 60mg raloxifene.

Fri. 70mg Tren, 140mg NPP, 1mg Adex, 60mg raloxifene.

Sat. 400mg Test C, 70mg Tren, 1mg Adex, 60mg raloxifene.

Sun. 70mg Tren, .5mg Adex.

Blood presure med as needed which is carvedilol but lately BP been good.

 

[Docd187123]

@Docd187123 you think 2~3 weeks is enough to get a accurate result on E2 while on letro?

Yea it should be fine. Try and get an LC/MS panel so results aren't skewed by the 19-nors

 

[Dr JIM]

Yea it should be fine. Try and get an LC/MS panel so results aren't skewed by the 19-nors

Although an LC/MS is the more reliable assay a difference of 10-20% in ones E-2 level bc of 19-Nor cross reactivity matters not

I recall a similar concern on behalf of BB who were running a SERM and an AI
simultaneously bc an article was published that showed such a combination could effect E-2 levels as much as THIRTY PERCENT.

Howevrr even a 30% change was NOT considered clinically significant according to the authors, a fact many on PED forums simply ignored or failed to understand its application from a therapeutic perspective.

The "numbers" are essentially meaningless in the absence of a patient with clinical signs and symptoms!

 

[Dr JIM]

OR in those instances in which a well defined therapeutic objective (like ones E-2 level) is based upon established mortality and/or morbidity data for a particular ailment such as breast CA.

Since no such data exist for BB running AAS the pursuit of an optimal
E-2 level is numeric ONLY.

 

[trying to get big]

Here it is brother.

Mon. 70mg Tren, 140mg NPP, 1mg Adex,
60mg Raloxifene.

Tues. 70mg Tren, 1mg Adex, 60mg raloxifene

Wed. 400mg Test C, 140mg NPP, 70mg Tren, .5mg Adex, 60mg raloxifene

Thurs. 70mg Tren, 1mg Adex, 60mg raloxifene.

Fri. 70mg Tren, 140mg NPP, 1mg Adex, 60mg raloxifene.

Sat. 400mg Test C, 70mg Tren, 1mg Adex, 60mg raloxifene.

Sun. 70mg Tren, .5mg Adex.

Blood presure med as needed which is carvedilol but lately BP been good.

Thanks for this!

Really thank you for breaking it down like that much appreciated

 

[Dr JIM]

If you fellas only knew the BENEFIT of an "increased" E-2 level that may occur in those folk with nonspecific arthralgias.

Yea I know it's anecdotal but one thing is NOT a "sub-therapeutic" E-2 level IS associated with worsening joint symptomatology in many patients, which is further substantiated by evidence in PMP patients.

The point; providing GCM is not an issue,the "bloat" of a rising E-2 level can be BENEFICAL especially for those who are not actively involved in competitive BB.

To that end far to much emphasis has been placed on a "high E-2 level" especially considering the paucity of data, in those running PEDs.

What's left after all the data is collated and carefully scrutinized; is A LOT of Bro-science, IMO.

Regs
Jim

 

[penche]

OR in those instances in which a well defined therapeutic objective (like ones E-2 level) is based upon established mortality and/or morbidity data for a particular ailment such as breast CA.

Since no such data exist for BB running AAS the pursuit of an optimal
E-2 level is numeric ONLY.

Thanks for chiming in @Dr JIM and @Docd187123
I'll be honest, I've been on this high dose of testosterone and nandrolone around 18 weeks. The Tren I've been on the last 6 weeks of the same run. A bit too long and I don't condone it. I'm going to end it in 3 weeks and return to my normal trt dose that my doc has me on, which is 200mg per week.

I've been on 60mg Ralox from the start as an insurance measure due to using (2)19Nors. During this time I've also had the chance to experiment with my Anastrozole dose. Sometime during the cycle I've decreased it from 6mg a week to 3.5~4mg per week. I lowered the Adex for 2 reasons. To see if I would have adverse effects from slightly higher E2 levels and to save some Adex pills.

About 2~3 weeks on the lower dose my left nip started to get tender. Maybe I'm over reacting but I thought I could feel a small pebble underneath. That's when I increased the Adex back. Recently switched to letro, stayed on raloxifene. Nip tenderness has dramatically decreased. I'll more likely use letro on heavy runs and on trt dose go back to Adex.

 

[hurricane]

Sup gentlemen, got a question.
Recently ran a cycle of 800mg test and 400mg NPP per week, 12 weeks total. Had to take 6mg of adex total per week to keep estrodial at 36pg/ml.

Took some time off and started the same run again but added 400~500mg of pellet Tren per week. So total anabolics is 1600~1700mg per week. It's been a great run so far. However, Ive recently switched from Anastrozole to letro. The switch is more cost effective for me. 30 pills of letro cost me the same as 30 pills of adex. I'll use 2 pills of letro per week vs 6 pills of adex per week.

My letro dose is about .8mg per day and the tabs I have are 2.5mg. Been on this dose for about 1 week. Sex drive still high and no achy joints. I was gonna go on this dose another 2 weeks then check total test and sensitive estrodial test. Anyone think this isn't enough time for accurate results?

Found this info on half life of letro and pharmacokinetics.
Femara ® (letrozole tablets) 2.5 mg Tablets Rx only Prescribing Information


Bill Roberts suggests no more than 1mg per day. I understand everyone is different hence why I'm testing.

Letrozole Profile

All thoughts welcomed. @Dr JIM too

Penche did you look at aromasin at all? Its just that I'd be worried about letro really lowering my estrogen to much and fukin everything up. Most importantly my sex drive. LOL. I see were both coreg brothers. I use it to control my heart rate though. Great heart and BP medication.

 

[penche]

Penche did you look at aromasin at all? Its just that I'd be worried about letro really lowering my estrogen to much and fukin everything up. Most importantly my sex drive. LOL. I see were both coreg brothers. I use it to control my heart rate though. Great heart and BP medication.

I haven't used it but I do have 30 pills of pharm grade Aro in my stash. In my opinion Aro is a solid choice for somone who doesn't aromatize that much. I think I'd go through aromasin faster than Anastrozole since its a less superior AI. Seems when I start adding several anabolics together is when I need a stout AI with a long half life. Aromasin half life is about 24hrs and it's considered an inactivator.

Some great info on all 3 AI's that we commonly use. I like this read.

There are two broad categories of third-generation AIs (Lønning and Geisler, 2008). The reversible non-steroidal agents include anastrozole and letrozole (triazole derivatives). The third agent, exemestane, is an androstenedione derivative that functions as an irreversible steroidal inhibitor (or inactivator). The triazole derivatives bind to the cytochrome P-450 component of the aromatase enzyme, whereas the steroidal compound exemestane binds to the substrate-binding pocket of the aromatase enzyme (Geisler et al, 1998), leading to its degradation (Figure 1).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3068499/pdf/bjc201158a.pdf

Following oral administration to healthy postmenopausal women, exemestane is rapidly absorbed. After maximum plasma concentration is reached, levels decline polyexponentially with a mean terminal half-life of about 24 hours.

AROMASIN®exemestane tablets

I could experiment with Aromasin when I cruise on trt or maybe when I do a test cycle. I'm about 7 days in on this letro dose and so far wood is still solid. Woke up this am and the wifey was ready to play at 4:45am before work. Didn't take any cialis or nothing and went to town on her booty. That's cuz I was concerned using nandrolone and Tren together but knock on wood, all has been good.
@hurricane do you use Aro on heavy runs? If so how much? Thanks for chiming in btw!

 

[hurricane]

I haven't used it but I do have 30 pills of pharm grade Aro in my stash. In my opinion Aro is a solid choice for somone who doesn't aromatize that much. I think I'd go through aromasin faster than Anastrozole since its a less superior AI. Seems when I start adding several anabolics together is when I need a stout AI with a long half life. Aromasin half life is about 24hrs and it's considered an inactivator.

Some great info on all 3 AI's that we commonly use. I like this read.

There are two broad categories of third-generation AIs (Lønning and Geisler, 2008). The reversible non-steroidal agents include anastrozole and letrozole (triazole derivatives). The third agent, exemestane, is an androstenedione derivative that functions as an irreversible steroidal inhibitor (or inactivator). The triazole derivatives bind to the cytochrome P-450 component of the aromatase enzyme, whereas the steroidal compound exemestane binds to the substrate-binding pocket of the aromatase enzyme (Geisler et al, 1998), leading to its degradation (Figure 1).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3068499/pdf/bjc201158a.pdf



AROMASIN®exemestane tablets

I could experiment with Aromasin when I cruise on trt or maybe when I do a test cycle. I'm about 7 days in on this letro dose and so far wood is still solid. Woke up this am and the wifey was ready to play at 4:45am before work. Didn't take any cialis or nothing and went to town on her booty. That's cuz I was concerned using nandrolone and Tren together but knock on wood, all has been good.
@hurricane do you use Aro on heavy runs? If so how much? Thanks for chiming in btw!

Yeah bro aromasin is my go to AI. Im pretty prone to gyno so once I'm at the 500-800 mg of test a week I'll run 12.5 everyday. The times that I'll go from 900-1200 mg per week I'll even run 25mg ed. Although that's not often. I like it and for the most part I think choosing an ai is like choosing your favorite test. They all work pretty similar but everyone has their favorite. I agree that letro does have more punch to it. I know I have to much estrogen when I don't want to fuk my wife every night while on gear. Who needs blood work. LOL.

 

[trying to get big]

I haven't used it but I do have 30 pills of pharm grade Aro in my stash. In my opinion Aro is a solid choice for somone who doesn't aromatize that much. I think I'd go through aromasin faster than Anastrozole since its a less superior AI. Seems when I start adding several anabolics together is when I need a stout AI with a long half life. Aromasin half life is about 24hrs and it's considered an inactivator.

Some great info on all 3 AI's that we commonly use. I like this read.

There are two broad categories of third-generation AIs (Lønning and Geisler, 2008). The reversible non-steroidal agents include anastrozole and letrozole (triazole derivatives). The third agent, exemestane, is an androstenedione derivative that functions as an irreversible steroidal inhibitor (or inactivator). The triazole derivatives bind to the cytochrome P-450 component of the aromatase enzyme, whereas the steroidal compound exemestane binds to the substrate-binding pocket of the aromatase enzyme (Geisler et al, 1998), leading to its degradation (Figure 1).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3068499/pdf/bjc201158a.pdf



AROMASIN®exemestane tablets

I could experiment with Aromasin when I cruise on trt or maybe when I do a test cycle. I'm about 7 days in on this letro dose and so far wood is still solid. Woke up this am and the wifey was ready to play at 4:45am before work. Didn't take any cialis or nothing and went to town on her booty. That's cuz I was concerned using nandrolone and Tren together but knock on wood, all has been good.
@hurricane do you use Aro on heavy runs? If so how much? Thanks for chiming in btw!

I know you wanted hurricans response but i tried both aro and adex while pinning a gram of test and npp.

Adex i had to use 1mg a day to keep a handle on e levels switched to armo just to see i was taking 25mgs a day and it couldnt keep up. I might just be a poor responder to armo but i went back to adex. Anyway just wanted to throw that out their.

 

[hurricane]

I know you wanted hurricans response but i tried both aro and adex while pinning a gram of test and npp.

Adex i had to use 1mg a day to keep a handle on e levels switched to armo just to see i was taking 25mgs a day and it couldnt keep up. I might just be a poor responder to armo but i went back to adex. Anyway just wanted to throw that out their.

Not even 25mgs worked bro? Damn. Guess that ones not your cup of tea. Myself on the other band don't respond as well to adex. Different strokes I guess.

 

[trying to get big]

Not even 25mgs worked bro? Damn. Guess that ones not your cup of tea. Myself on the other band don't respond as well to adex. Different strokes I guess.

I don't understand it actually....i really rather use aromisin then i wouldnt have to worry about rebounding e levels but like you said not my cup of tea.

 

[penche]

@trying to get big and @hurricane appreciate you fellas sharing personal experiences. It does help.

On the other hand, that Tren makes me one horny bastard by far.

 

[trying to get big]

Really tho with out taking bloods weekly what would be the fastest sign of the onslaught of crashed e levels. I would rather save money and use letro too but worry bout crashin my self.

 

[hurricane]

Really tho with out taking bloods weekly what would be the fastest sign of the onslaught of crashed e levels. I would rather save money and use letro too but worry bout crashin my self.

Honestly libido is one of them. And I find I get real lethargic. Going to the gym becomes a chore, not something I'm pumped to go to and do. And for me my nips definitely get puffy. I know this isn't scientific here, but those are definate signs. Sorry I'm spelling like my 7 year old daughter today.

 

[trying to get big]

Hell because of my job i already have achy joints and im already worn out so it gets a little tricky without bloods

I cant spell worth a damn so im not one to talk