Tamoxifen during cycle, gyno question - need help

[Juklil]

Hello everyone,

been following since a while but now i need the actual help.

currently on my first cycle:

500mg TEST E a week / 2 pins : mo pm | fr am . real pharma stuff

Basically i've been doing amazing, my diets on track so is my training - i've been feeling great and it's been going the right way.

The first 2 weeks i felt my nipples were burning, but thats due to aromatisation of test - so i let it go and it dissapeard.

the problem now is, that i'm not sure that i have lumps or whatever, i checked it with my friend - he has the same thing at the nipple area, so i'ts some kinda "tissue" i guess.

But i want to be sure.

I found these "2 protocols" and basically this sums up my research and all the other opinons i've got from people.

So incase it's a lump and i dont want to risk anything:

Reversing gyno:

Raloxifene: 60mg a day, increase by 20mg if i dont see improvement) + AI then lead into nolva at the PCT

or

Nolva: 40mg for 1 week then 20mg afterwards

I cant get Raloxifene & Aromasin,
So in my case: i'm ending my 8th week of test - e, my cycle was planned to be 16 weeks

So, week 9 - 40mg nolva + 500mg Test e/week
week 10-16 20mg Nolva + 500mg Test e/week
week 17 20mg nolva
week 18 20mg nolva
week 19 ( PCT starts) 20mg nolva + 1st day 200mg clomid/100mg/50mg and so on
week 20 20mg nolva + 50mg clomid
week 21 20mg nolva + 50mg clomid
week 22 20mg nolva + 50mg clomid
week 23 20mg nolva (rebound effect?)
week 24 20mg nolva (rebound effect?)

or should i continue 2 weeks more with nolva?

i really hope someone can help me out! Appreciate every help and answer, thanks a lot guys!!!!

 

[Juklil]

no one?

 

[hotdog23]

You need to know if u actually have gyno. For the time being take 20mg nolvadex ed. I went through the same thing... And I'm 90% sure I don't even have gyno.

Is your AI legit? U got other high estro symptoms?

 

[Marcus]

I'm a little confused... Do you have an AI on hand or not? And agree with hotdog, you gotta figure out if you have gyno symptoms for sure.
Same thing happened to me first cycle (how I learned I'm just gyno proned), started taking 0.5mg Arimidex ED for about 4 days then dropped it to 0.5mg EOD, then 0.5mg E3D as my symptoms subsided and ran that to PCT. My body reacted relatively well to the AI, so you have to listen to that obviously. I read a protocol of 0.5mg Adex EOD with 40mg Nolvadex ED for the first week, then 0.5mg Adex E3D and 20mg of Nolvadex the 2nd week until symptoms subside. I just didn't want to run a SERM if I could avoid it on cycle, since I was going to run it in PCT. Hope this helps and maybe a vet could chime in and correct my info or add their personal experience. Good luck man

 

[Juklil]

I'm a little confused... Do you have an AI on hand or not? And agree with hotdog, you gotta figure out if you have gyno symptoms for sure.
Same thing happened to me first cycle (how I learned I'm just gyno proned), started taking 0.5mg Arimidex ED for about 4 days then dropped it to 0.5mg EOD, then 0.5mg E3D as my symptoms subsided and ran that to PCT. My body reacted relatively well to the AI, so you have to listen to that obviously. I read a protocol of 0.5mg Adex EOD with 40mg Nolvadex ED for the first week, then 0.5mg Adex E3D and 20mg of Nolvadex the 2nd week until symptoms subside. I just didn't want to run a SERM if I could avoid it on cycle, since I was going to run it in PCT. Hope this helps and maybe a vet could chime in and correct my info or add their personal experience. Good luck man

Hey,

ye i can get nolva/arimidex in 1 day - anything i want, 100% pharma stuff - so ye i can say it that i have on hand.

Well it's really hard to tell actually, my nipples are not sore, not sensitive - neither they hurt when i touch them. They are a little bit swolen and i tested one thing out with my friend, if you grab around whole nipple deeper, we both have the same tissue - if i grab the nipple only i have a little small sized "ball" - if i squezzy it - it hurts, but thats pretty much it.

Combining Adex with SERM like nolva would decrease the effictivness.

What were your symptoms?

 

[Marcus]

Mine started out itchy for a few days, then became pretty sore and puffy, and by day 2 of the soreness I had a enough and didn't want it to get worse.

Where did you read that it will decrease effectiveness when combining a SERM with an AI? The purpose of combining them from my understanding, is to prevent estrogen rebound when you taper off the AI, but again this is not how I used it. I was just telling you a protocol I read and my personal experience.
Again, maybe a vet could chime in regarding your symptoms.

 

[Juklil]

Mine started out itchy for a few days, then became pretty sore and puffy, and by day 2 of the soreness I had a enough and didn't want it to get worse.

Where did you read that it will decrease effectiveness when combining a SERM with an AI? The purpose of combining them from my understanding, is to prevent estrogen rebound when you taper off the AI, but again this is not how I used it. I was just telling you a protocol I read and my personal experience.
Again, maybe a vet could chime in regarding your symptoms.

Raloxifene + Aromasin would be perfect in my case but i can't get it..

Ye your "side effects" are like 10times heavier than mine, i don't have pain if i don't "play with ito"

Just did a blood test - some enzymes + test + e2

 

[hotdog23]

Tamoxifen reduces effectiveness of anastrazole, too what degree idk. The purpose of the SERM - nolva/ralox/torem - is to block estrogenic activity in the breast tissue, effectively halting any more growth. E2 rebound is largely a myth. Letrozole is your best bet at reversing gyno, but it will destroy your estro. Start nolvadex 20mg/day it will prevent further progression of your gyno

 

[Marcus]

Don't know if you want research or pharma grade, but I've had good response time from Iron Dragon, usually 2-3 days and it's in my mailbox... They're on the west coast. They have Ralox and Aromasin (Emestane). Can't vouch for the quality of either though, used their Nolva and Adex. Nolva was good and confirmed with bloodwork and the Adex helped my gyno on cycle. This was over a year ago, just placed another order from them for some stuff for an upcoming cycle though.

Again though, you might be pre-mature with symptoms, maybe inquire with someone who has knows a little more than me on these boards, but I would get an AI at least to have on hand in the mean time anyway regardless in case symptoms get worse.

 

[Marcus]

This... Letro can take up to 2 weeks to work from what I've heard, but does crush that E2 which can be good and bad. Listen to hotdog though, sure he knows more than me man.

Hey hotdog, estrogen rebound is myth? Does it happen when AI's aren't tapered off appropriately? Is the only reason this was thought up because most used an AI on cycle when Estrogen would most likely be higher than normal anyway? Thanks for the info man

 

[Juklil]

Tamoxifen reduces effectiveness of anastrazole, too what degree idk. The purpose of the SERM - nolva/ralox/torem - is to block estrogenic activity in the breast tissue, effectively halting any more growth. E2 rebound is largely a myth. Letrozole is your best bet at reversing gyno, but it will destroy your estro. Start nolvadex 20mg/day it will prevent further progression of your gyno

So let me be sure by this little protocol, correct if i'm wrong

Week 9-16: test e 500mg/week + 20mg nolva ed
week 17-19: 20mg nolva ed
week 20-24: 20mg nolva ed + 200 day1, 100 day2, rest 50mg clomid ed
week 25-26: 20mg nolva ed?

week 17, 18, 19 would be the gap and then i start the PCT with adding clomid towards it. I go by 3 week gap coz it's the timing that is important, right? and what matter is the compounds used at the amount of it, not just the half life of the steroid? been reading a lot about it on different boards.

Thanks for your info!

 

[hotdog23]

I'm no expert either foreal. That "ball" u have behind your nip is minor gyno I can almost guarantee.

The only way I found out out I didn't have gyno was to compare tits/nips with my buddy that does have it.

Basically estrogen rebound has never been proven are shown in any clinical context. If the body does upregulate production of aromatase enzyme to combat the AI effect, then it stands to reason when your AI wears off, you will be left with the ability to aromatize a shitload of test to estro... But that's never been shown either. I'm really just parroting things I've read and Dr. Scally has said on the topic.

If u got pharma grade on deck DEFINETLY go that route

You posted while i was typing... Um ya basically right. If u wanna go for reversal try letro and maybe ralox. Idk about the newer SERMs but some say they are more effective at reversal IDK. Pharma nolva is pretty safe bet tho. Go 20/day for a week or two then drop to 10-20 eod for rest of cycle. Then bring it back up in pct. Get e2 in check, unless u are very sensitive u never shoulda got gyno if it was under control in first place. This is all I know. Maybe someone with experience with a reversal protocol can say somethin. Good luck man

 

[Ach3r0n]

Where did you read that it will decrease effectiveness when combining a SERM with an AI? The purpose of combining them from my understanding, is to prevent estrogen rebound when you taper off the AI, but again this is not how I used it. I was just telling you a protocol I read and my personal experience.
Again, maybe a vet could chime in regarding your symptoms.

It's listed in the drug information on various pharmaceutical/medial websites, such as this one. The http://www1.astrazeneca-us.com/pi/arimidex.pdf (official documentation for Arimidex) also indicates that the 2 should not be taken together. Some of these sites warn of potentially severe drug interactions between tamoxifen and anastrazole/letrozole as well, though I could find nothing to support such concerns.

 

[Marcus]

It's listed in the drug information on various pharmaceutical/medial websites, such as this one. The http://www1.astrazeneca-us.com/pi/arimidex.pdf (official documentation for Arimidex) also indicates that the 2 should not be taken together. Some of these sites warn of potentially severe drug interactions between tamoxifen and anastrazole/letrozole as well, though I could find nothing to support such concerns.

Ahhhh I didn't know that, read a lot of logs where people use these together. Great info to know. Thank you for this sirrr