Test/Estrogen ratio or reference range?

Frankie77

New Member
Hey guys I’m new to this forum and also a newbie in the PEDs world so I would love to hear what people more experienced than me think or have done in my shoes.
I had lowish test levels but before committing to test I wanted to try the SERMs route, in addition to this I was about to start a pretty long cutting phase to lose once and for all the excessive body fat and considering that during a prolonged caloric deficit test level tanks I decided there was no better time to try them out. I take 25mg of Clomid and 10mg of Tamoxifen every other day and it worked great! I have more energy, can train for longer periods, mental sides of low test are pretty much gone and despite losing around 45 pounds in 12 weeks (from 225 to 180, height is 6’3) it doesn’t look like I lost much muscles. Sex drive is pretty good too but I didn’t have problems in that regard before starting. So anyway after 12 weeks I did some bloodwork to check what was going on and my test levels skyrocketed, but so did my estrogen.
Total Test: >1500ng/dl ref.range (249-830) (don’t know why they didn’t give me a precise number)
Free Test: 97pg/ml ref.range (19,8-51,7)
17-beta-estradiol (E2): 90pg/ml ref. range (11-43)
So well test levels are pretty good but estrogen is high, now I’ve seen that there are two sides on the issue: one says that Estrogen level on its own is useless and should be looked as a ratio between E2 and Test, the other says that regardless of the ratio your estrogen level should always be between a certain range. Curious to hear from you guys what you think the best way to procede is, I was considering to start taking an ai to lower E2.
As far as side effects from Estrogen I’m experiencing the following:
-I’m not “emotional” in the sense of crying if I watch a sentimental scene in a film or the “random crying” I’m reading everywhere, however I’m kind of “pissed off” constantly and for the most random shit: if I’m not eating dinner at my usual time I’m extremely annoyed or if the ribs I smoked did not turn out exactly as I wanted I’m angry af. If my usual parking spot of seat is taken man I’m just super pissed off and all of this is pretty strange because usually I’m really calm and controlled. In addition to this I’m having a shit ton of acne on the chest and forehead which is unusual and I’m getting kind of bloated which might not necessarily be linked to estrogen but I follow a pretty strict routine, drink enough water, don’t eat shit and take potassium while limiting sodium.
Last symptom which really ringed a bell is uncontrollable fucking cravings for sugary/sweet stuff, mainly chocolate. I’ve never been really into chocolate but now if I see it anywhere I’m eating the whole fucking bar lol.
So yes what do you guys think?
Should I try an ai?
Advice on which one and dosing?(I was thinking of 0.25 Anastrozole 2 times a week)
Thanks
 
Clomid and nolva is a really dumb way to go about getting your test up. They both have a host of sides. Adding a 3rd compound instead of lowering your dose of serms is even more moronic. Just get on trt or run a cycle. And you don't go by a ratio or reference ranges when dealing with super physiological levels of test. You go by feel. As long as high e2 isn't giving you symptoms you leave it alone. Your symptoms are from doing a bad drug combination. Drop the nolva. But really you should drop the clomid too. Get actual testosterone
 
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Go based on feels.

There’s evidence to suggest you want your e2 in range. There’s evidence to suggest you should have it as a ratio of your T.

People give positive anecdotes on both sides.
 
Go based on feels.

There’s evidence to suggest you want your e2 in range. There’s evidence to suggest you should have it as a ratio of your T.

People give positive anecdotes on both sides.
This. There are benefits to estradiol being both in range and being higher/out of range. For example, when my estrogen is in range I experience more anxiety. When it’s out of range (~60 pg/ml), the anxiety is gone. Everyone is different. For me it tooks months of testing different TRT dosages (always stayed below 150 mg/week) with and without an AI, getting blood work every 6 weeks, logging a diary of how I felt and most importantly maintaining a strict diet and not introducing anything new into my life/body so that I could factor that side out.

Edit - didn’t realize this was an older thread!
 
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Another thought.

When you test your blood, you’re testing the mean concentration of the substance in your body. This is fine for stuff like testosterone which is endogenously secretly almost entirely from the nuts and then circulated from there, but E2 for us is primarily derived from T, and the enzyme that’s responsible for it is not evenly distributed in the body.

Aromatase may even be tightly controlled in some tissues to provide very precise aromatisation. Maybe in the brain?

So a “mean e2” reading doesn’t tell you what’s happening at different tissues.

And an AI is going to have its own unique pharmacokinetics as well.
 

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