Test shot every 5 days better than 1/week?

[PointBlank]

Hi, my first post on the forum, which is great by the way

I have been on the SWALE protocol using test enanthate every week at 100mg + 2x250IU of HCG on days 5 and 6. I find I feel great days 1 through 4 but day 5 and 6 are very flat, no libido etc, its very noticable.

Would I perhaps be better off injecting the 100mg once per 5 days to keep a more consistent test blood level, and doing the HCG maybe Mon, Wed, Fri? I know the idea of the HCG on days 5 and 6 is to make up for the lowered test levels at that point but I don't really seem to feel the effects of the HCG until a couple of days after I inject it.

Any thoughts very welcome

 

[mranak]

I see no problem with doing the injections every five days as long as you maintain testosterone levels in the normal range. As for the hCG, I would personally still use it on the two days proceeding the next injection, or if nothing else, I wouldn't inject hCG more than 2x/week. There just isn't much benefit to doing so and why even risk desensitizing the leydig cells.

I don't seem to get any particular benefit from hCG either. Might I ask what brand of hCG you use? Profasi, Pregnyl, generic made by APP?

 

[PointBlank]

I don't seem to get any particular benefit from hCG either. Might I ask what brand of hCG you use? Profasi, Pregnyl, generic made by APP?

Usually Profasi. I do see benefit from the HCG but it seems to take a couple of days to kick in.

 

[SPE]

mranak, why do you think more frequent use of HCG would desensitze the leydig cells? If the dosage is kept at 500iu/week then it wouldn't matter, would it?

 

[mranak]

mranak, why do you think more frequent use of HCG would desensitze the leydig cells? If the dosage is kept at 500iu/week then it wouldn't matter, would it?

That's what I thought, but SWALE made a post recently that suggested otherwise. Two days/week is usually enough, anyway.

 

[pmgamer18]

Hi, my first post on the forum, which is great by the way

I have been on the SWALE protocol using test enanthate every week at 100mg + 2x250IU of HCG on days 5 and 6. I find I feel great days 1 through 4 but day 5 and 6 are very flat, no libido etc, its very noticable.

Would I perhaps be better off injecting the 100mg once per 5 days to keep a more consistent test blood level, and doing the HCG maybe Mon, Wed, Fri? I know the idea of the HCG on days 5 and 6 is to make up for the lowered test levels at that point but I don't really seem to feel the effects of the HCG until a couple of days after I inject it.

Any thoughts very welcome

I had this problem but it was before adding HCG. My Dr. said it would be better to up the dose to 150 mgs. because of the half life. I am doing great on 150 IU's and doing HCG.
Phil

 

[Stez]

I've done 125mg E5D, but will probably change to 150mg E7D just cos it makes shots simpler - once a week on the same day.

 

[Weatherlite]

You say you don't feel the HcG for a couple of days....why not try moving the HcG two days earlier to see if that helps you bridge the gap better? Or, you could try bumping it one day first and if that doesn't help then try two.

Just an idea.

 

[PointBlank]

Hey, good idea, I think I will give that a try. If that doesn't get me to where I want I'll try the test 1/5 days

 

[SWALE]

My HCG Protocol is based upon the drop in serum androgen levels by the half-life of the cypionate ester, and HCG's ability to stabilize same.

We do not know what your serum T levels are on this TRT dose. That is crucial information here, and could explain everything.


If you do not feel a pick up until two days later, then you are already into the increase due to the IM injection.

Weatherlite offers a good possible remedy. Give 'er a try. Everyone is different.

With all the anecdotal reports of differences in HCG products, I am going to have to rethink my position that "hCG is hCG".

I am always surprised when I read more talk of HCG at my recommended dosages causing "desentization" of the Leydig cells. Over and over and over. How on earth could providing what roughly amounts to natural concentration of LH possibly cause this? I am hoping this is the last time I will have to answer this issue (meaning it is left up to My Boyz--my Padawans--to handle from now on!).

 

[Weatherlite]

In regards to the desensitization, I've known a few who claimed that they were able to drop their dose over time and still get the same effects.

 

[mranak]

I am always surprised when I read more talk of HCG at my recommended dosages causing "desentization" of the Leydig cells. Over and over and over. How on earth could providing what roughly amounts to natural concentration of LH possibly cause this? I am hoping this is the last time I will have to answer this issue (meaning it is left up to My Boyz--my Padawans--to handle from now on!).

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but you recently advised that pmgamer18 in this thread that you thought he was desensitizing his leydig cells even though he was only using hCG at 500 IU 3 times/week. This surprised both pmgamer18 and myself. I took you at your word and advised this guy to follow your hCG protocol of only twice/weekly hCG injections rather than 3 times/weekly injections. But this statement from you confuses me. So please clarify for me one last time and we will spread the word:

Can hCG at 500 IU three times/week potentially desensitize the leydig cells or not?

Thank You.

 

[SWALE]

In looking at that particular case, that seemed like a possibility. Plus, we know our good pal gamer has a rather touchy endo system.

I just do not want to see guys use more than 250IU at a time now. I remember getting attacked on some Boards when I began saying we should not use more than 1000.

 

[mranak]

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[pmgamer18]

In looking at that particular case, that seemed like a possibility. Plus, we know our good pal gamer has a rather touchy endo system.

I just do not want to see guys use more than 250IU at a time now. I remember getting attacked on some Boards when I began saying we should not use more than 1000.

SWALE I just did my second 500 IU's shot of Novarel HCG. When you posted to me that I could be desensitize my testis. I had posted that my levels came down. Now at the time I had a refill from MedcoHealth and they sent me the wrong HCG they sent me the Generic for Novarel called "Chorionic Gonadotropin" made by APP. I did not know it was a Generic so I was using it for 6 weeks and feeling my levels going down I was sure you were right that my testis were becoming desensitize to the dose of 500 IU's 3 times a week. And when I first got my Dr. to put me on it I did not want to do that much but I let my Dr. talk me into it for a starting dose. The plain was to go to 250 IU's when my levels stablized. But the Generic HCG has set me back bad my joints and muscles are hurting again and I am having trouble losing weight now. Last week I put on 2 lbs. I am still walking and working out but now my recovery time is taking me all day. I could tell yesterday when I got the Novarel in the mail and did a 500 IU shot. I could feel the feeling of well being. I am still worried about desensitizing my cells. Yet my Dr. wants me to say the course of 500 IU's 3 times a week until my levels come back up. I do my next blood test in 3 weeks. So I hope this will bring up my levels.

But if one does desensitize his cells to HCG can lowering the dose or stopping the HCG for a time reverse the desensitized cells.
Thanks Phil

 

[mranak]

hrm.... since Novarel is a 'generic' in the US, maybe I can get my pharmacy to fill my prescription with Novarel next time rather than the APP brand. If I can get the Novarel brand and I feel different, then that will be one more anecdoctal report of such.

 

[mranak]

UPDATE: I just did a quick search with google for the term "novarel." The second hit brought me to this web page about Novarel hCG. Take a look at the web page and scroll down to the bottom. You will find the following text:

Manufactured for:
Ferring Pharmaceuticals Inc.
Suffern, NY 10901

By: American Pharmaceutical
Partners, Inc.

But this web page says:

Mfd. for:
Ferring Pharmaceuticals Inc.
Suffern, NY 10901
Mfd. by:
Steris Laboratories, Inc.
Phoenix, AZ 85043 USA

pmgamer18: any chance you could look at the bottom of your package insert and tell us who it is manufacturerd by?

 

[pmgamer18]

hrm.... since Novarel is a 'generic' in the US, maybe I can get my pharmacy to fill my prescription with Novarel next time rather than the APP brand. If I can get the Novarel brand and I feel different, then that will be one more anecdoctal report of such.

OK but APP is the Generic for Novarel Novarel is the true HCG not a Generic. Ask your Dr. to check the box for "no Generic" and you should get the Novarel if he rights the script for Novarel.
Phil

 

[mranak]

OK but APP is the Generic for Novarel Novarel is the true HCG not a Generic. Ask your Dr. to check the box for "no Generic" and you should get the Novarel if he rights the script for Novarel.
Phil

Both 'Chorionic Gonadotropin' from APP and 'Novarel' are generic brands. Profasi and Pregnyl are name brands.

 

[stat1951]

Both 'Chorionic Gonadotropin' from APP and 'Novarel' are generic brands. Profasi and Pregnyl are name brands.

Thanks for that info. Clears up some of the confusion about which is which (I hope).

Possibly there's enough of a difference in even the generic brands that Phil was simply doing good on the one generic and not responding to the other generic brand???

Larry