MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
The Lobster International,EU and UK domestic HGH,PEPTIDES and Turkish Pharmacy
- Thread starter TheLobster
- Start date
AlexDavis43
Member
In that case, I don't think I've ever had lyophilized pharma peptides. Pharma GH (cinna & geno) in pens, and all other non-GH peptides from UGL lyophilized (mostly vacuum but not all).
I'm getting the sense that vacuum is not a big deal, unless maybe for long-term storage (still unknown)
TheLobster
Subscriber
Hello
Vacuum is commonly used to protect products from external factors and maintain their stability. However, in the absence of vacuum, as long as proper storage conditions are met, it does not significantly affect the quality of the product
It seems that a few people here think I’m blowing air with my mouth and closing the vial . Ok
Thank you
RekTest
Member
Ah, taking trade secrets from qsc I see.
TheLobster
Subscriber
You are more than welcome to visit our manufacturing facility. I will cover all your costs, and you can share your ideas here. Let me know if you’re interested. January possibly
Thank you
bighunanballs
Well-known Member
Forgive my ignorance here, does Pharma HGH come as lyophilized/freeze dried powder? The absence of vacuum is a concern for long-term storage if you are a hoarder. Unless lobster is using an inert blanket gas to fill the head space of his vials then vacuum is usually the cheapest easiest method of eliminating oxygen for shelf life
bighunanballs
Well-known Member
Does that mean you buy the GH raws from China and then lyophilize it in your own facilities in Turkey?
Not having a vaccum in the vials could in principle lead to faster degradation through oxidation (unless the vial contains an inert gas like nitrogen). See below. So this should be of concern to customers.
Oxidation of therapeutic proteins and peptides: structural and biological consequences - PubMed
Oxidation is a common degradation pathway that affects therapeutic proteins and peptides during production, purification, formulation, transportation, storage and handling of solid and liquid preparations. In the present work we review the scientific literature about structural and biological...pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
This is 100% accurate. If these vials are not filled with an inert blanket gas or stored under vacuum then the atmospheric oxygen present when bottling will degrade these peptides fast. I don't think anyone has Jano tested analytics on improperly finished vials, but theoretically from other industries we see degradation of 5-10% within the first 2-4 weeks and 30-50% in a few months time ( not apples to apples but this is typically lyophilized water soluble THC and cannabinoids) I would definitely not be interested in a non-vacuumed vial of HGH If I was planning on storing it for longer than a couple months
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TheLobster
Subscriber
There is no air inside the vials. If you create a vacuum of 2000-3000 Pa in the machine, the vials will not contain air, but they also won’t have a complete vacuum
The machine does not apply top pressure with 5-10 Pa. Instead, the machine applies top pressure with around 2000-3000 Pa
Also tonight will share results
GCMS screening
LCMS screening
Heavy metals screening (As, Cd, Pb, Hg)
Endotoxin analysis
Thank you
MyNameIsJeff
Well-known Member
You are trying to deflect. A low-vacuum of 2000 Pa represents about 2% of atmospheric pressure, meaning there are much less gas molecules in the vial compared to having no pressure differential. It is much better than having no vacuum at all.
By your own admission, your machinery is defective so that atmospheric air is not extracted from the vial prior to sealing it. Users observe this as a lack of any pressure differential (no perceived vacuum). Therefore, your vials will contain significantly more oxygen and humidity than they should. This will negatively affect peptide stability, meaning that your products are not suitable for long-term storage.
If it's not an issue, then why even bother getting it repaired?
Another attempt to distract from the issue with a strawman argument. No one has raised concerns about potential bacterial contamination. The concerns are about atmospheric air content in the vial. Whether it is cleaned and purified air is irrelevant to the oxygen and humidity issues.
That's nice, but these results will do nothing to alleviate concerns about long-term stability of your products due to the presence of atmospheric air in the vials. You should prioritize fixing or replacing your machinery. Fly in a tech from China if you have to.
You demand a sizable price premium over your competitors in the international GH market. Yet, you cannot even get the manufacturing basics right, and never even informed customers about the changes due to your defective machinery. Guess what, your much cheaper competitors do not have any issues manufacturing vials with a proper vacuum. FIX YOUR SHIT.
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bighunanballs
Well-known Member
I'm only going on what others are stating that they did not have "any" vacuum. Yes I would say low vacuum is better than no vacuum if that's the case but it certainly not "ok"
MyNameIsJeff
Well-known Member
I think the argument he is trying to make is that, when working properly, the machine only generates a low vacuum of 2000PA, not a full vacuum. And that, therefore, it's no big deal that the machine broke and doesn't produce any vacuum now. Which is of course nonsense.
This is the only logical explanation of his statement, given that users report no perceived vacuum at all, which indicates that now that his machine is broken, the pressure in the vial is the same as the atmospheric pressure.
TheLobster
Subscriber
While I'm having the machine fixed in January, I'll take this opportunity to provide/produce clarity on this matter by arranging for testing non-vacuum sealed hgh vs a vacuum sealed control group (made from the same batch of raws at the same time) both for humidity and for degradation at a recommended 0, 3, 6, 12 months post production in realistic storage conditions (as few users will have access to cooling them at the –20 °C or –80 °C recommended in the sigmaaldritch link), and publish the results in this thread as well as in a separate thread.
It's not that there's a lack of non-vacuum sealed peptide test results cumulatively proving my point around in this community but rather that they're all scattered and not tagged/time-stamped properly, so let me know if you want to add any specifications to this testing to strengthen the potential results/remove any bias as there's always an inherent issue with a source setting up such testing rather than the community
The kit i'm using currently from EU domestic has a "slight" vacuum, not a strong one but i can't say it hasn't any at all.
To explain it better, when i first pin the vial to reconstitute it with bac water, with no pressure at plunger it just sucks water in with a slow pace.
You don't have to press it down (perhaps needs a little push when bac water is near the end inside the syringe) but definitely not that scary sucking you have to hold the plunger to prevent water going in crazy fast.
To explain it better, when i first pin the vial to reconstitute it with bac water, with no pressure at plunger it just sucks water in with a slow pace.
You don't have to press it down (perhaps needs a little push when bac water is near the end inside the syringe) but definitely not that scary sucking you have to hold the plunger to prevent water going in crazy fast.
I would be interested in the link fo sigmaldritch -20 and -80n thing..If you have it
MyNameIsJeff
Well-known Member
Thank you for addressing this issue in good faith. The testing you propose would certainly be useful to quantify the increase in degradation caused by a lack of vacuum seal.
Until the results are in, however, it is important to maintain transparency towards your customers. For example, you could state the lack of vacuum seal in the description of the items/batches that are affected. And then let customers know once a batch without the issue is available. That way, customers can decide for themselves whether they are willing to take the risk of increased degradation, and/or take measures to mitigate it (by using the affected batches as soon as possible instead of keeping them in the stockpile for a year).
MyNameIsJeff
Well-known Member
bighunanballs
Well-known Member
Would be great to see this testing Thanks
MyNameIsJeff
Well-known Member
Lobster mentioned that the batch available for EU domestic is the one that was produced when the vacuum-seal machinery was still working correctly. What you are describing is consistent with the ~2000 Pa low-vacuum that he stated as the capability of the machinery when not broken.
Arguably, the stronger vacuums present in most peptide vials from China would be preferable, since the latter contain even less air particles and humidity. Might be an argument for Lobster to upgrade his machinery instead of repairing the existing one.
RekTest
Member
I am following for this testing.
Curious to see
