Topical Solutions to 17-AA Issues

[2023rebuild]

I did a cursory search on here and I didn't find anything that was quite on topic, though apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere and i missed it. I am curious if anyone has attempted (or has heard of anyone else attempting) to create a topical solution for 17-Alpha-Alkylated compounds. I would imagine that this would significantly reduce the first pass liver issues quite a bit and still retain the oral compounds' "faster acting" characteristics when compared to the traditional injectables. This might result in the ability to take larger doses (not what interests me) and/or allow a person to use such compounds safely for longer than the commonly accepted cycle times (very much interests me).

I realize that there are many negative observations/anecdotes and even clinical studies about topical testosterone solutions compared to IM administration and that the comparative bioavailability isn't great but: 1) I doubt those preparations use something powerful like DMSO; and 2) I think the use case is totally different since Test is tolerated so well through IM administration (if it ain't broke don't fix it). Given the effectiveness of DMSO in pushing compounds across the skin barrier, i have to imagine that a decent amount of the compound would get through, though there is obviously not a lot of data to look to on this.

I figured that this would be a good topic in the homebrew category.

Really curious as to everyone's thoughts/experiences/theories.

 

[narta]

You have the choice to:

1) Ingest your orals
2) Inject your orals
3) Don't do orals

 

[2023rebuild]

What is that based on? I am asking in good faith to see if anyone has played around with the idea. I think we can all agree that it sucks there are no real large scale trials on any of this shit. It would be amazing if we took a responible approach to all compounds in this country (and all countries). But that is never going to happen.

Was hoping that somebody somewhere had experimented with this and had actual data. Is there a way to draw more attention to my question?

Can you back up your response with anything more fact based?


I am actually also interested in injecting orals... any thoughts on where I can find more details on that? Does it actually lessen the impact on the liver?

(for the record, I am ingesting my orals and have always done so. just looking for other options... kinda wish I could stay on orals all the time )

 

[TheHaus88]

What is that based on? I am asking in good faith to see if anyone has played around with the idea. I think we can all agree that it sucks there are no real large scale trials on any of this shit. It would be amazing if we took a responible approach to all compounds in this country (and all countries). But that is never going to happen.

Was hoping that somebody somewhere had experimented with this and had actual data. Is there a way to draw more attention to my question?

Can you back up your response with anything more fact based?


I am actually also interested in injecting orals... any thoughts on where I can find more details on that? Does it actually lessen the impact on the liver?

(for the record, I am ingesting my orals and have always done so. just looking for other options... kinda wish I could stay on orals all the time )

Based on what evidence does applying orals to the skin or under the tongue or injecting "bypass the liver" first, second, once, twice or at all?

Do you understand how the liver works? Do you understand how blood works? How much research have you done on biochemistry and anabolics or pharmacology?

I feel like his answer was the most direct answer you can get. You are free to experiment and report back.

 

[AlexDavis43]

Even if you could bypass the "first pass," what about the other 99+ passes?

Seems like the benefit of injecting orals is because people are addicted to injecting. That shit is still going through the liver.

 

[Deskoze38192]

Even if you could bypass the "first pass," what about the other 99+ passes?

Seems like the benefit of injecting orals is because people are addicted to injecting. That shit is still going through the liver.

Exactly …and the injectable version is going though with addition of harsh solvents like guaiacol without any additional benefit

 

[2023rebuild]

Based on what evidence does applying orals to the skin or under the tongue or injecting "bypass the liver" first, second, once, twice or at all?

Do you understand how the liver works? Do you understand how blood works? How much research have you done on biochemistry and anabolics or pharmacology?

I feel like his answer was the most direct answer you can get. You are free to experiment and report back.

Yes I have looked into this quite a bit and yes I understand how the liver works? do you? When a drug is administered intramuscularly, it bypasses the gastrointestinal tract and first-pass metabolism in the liver and is absorbed directly into the bloodstream and distributed throughout the body.
This means the liver encounters the drug in a more diluted form, as it is spread through systemic circulation rather than concentrated in the portal vein.

So while the c17 part is still toxic the thesis is that its less toxic than taking the compound orally. I couldn't really find much on efficacy but I would assume that it would take longer to build up in the body via injection and not be as rapidly acting. Hard to find data on this second part.

Also I never mentioned sublingual administration

 

[narta]

Seems like the benefit of injecting orals is because people are addicted to injecting.

The injectable orals have a benefit and it's called zero stomach strain, so you can eat better while on steroids.

 

[baxter0312]

Yes it will bypass the liver first
It will then enter the bloodstream and hit the liver all at once.
This is why you do NOT want to use DMSO.

Now if we can slow absorption down so it all doesn’t go into the blood in a short time we might be onto something.

Thank you for the thread and don’t mind the curmudgeons

 

[baxter0312]

You have the choice to:

1) Ingest your orals
2) Inject your orals
3) Don't do orals

It's almost like you're telling me what i can and can't do, sir

 

[Pinnacle Elements]

Topicals FTW