Toremifene and Clomid Dosages - Help Needed

[Weagle12]

I am winding down my Tren/Test-E cycle and I have a few specific questions about the PCT. This is going on my 10th week and I plan to finish after 12. I have been 500mg/week of Test-E and 70mg Tren Ace ED. I have both clomid and toremifene on hand.

I made sure to get the Torem due to the fact that I have started to notice some gyno issues in my right nipple and the small previous gyno issue in my left nipple has gotten worse.

Should I start the Torem now and then continue through the end of the cycle and finish with the Clomid two weeks after my last Test dosage? That is another area I am a little confused about because of the huge difference in half life between the Test E and Tren Ace.

Also what is the recommended dosages of each of them?

Please excuse my ignorance on the topic but its getting to crunch time now and I have to figure out what I need to do to get this gyno under control and to get my levels back on track.

 

[jabrel3]

Whoa whoa, are you asking if you should start taking pct 2 weeks before you take your last shot? Absolutely not, you need to time your pct with the longest ester so Test E. Personally I would only run the torem at 120/90/60/30, for me it's enough alone and adding clomid may produce more side effects than positive effects. Just my opinion.

 

[Weagle12]

Whoa whoa, are you asking if you should start taking pct 2 weeks before you take your last shot? Absolutely not, you need to time your pct with the longest ester so Test E. Personally I would only run the torem at 120/90/60/30, for me it's enough alone and adding clomid may produce more side effects than positive effects. Just my opinion.

No, no, no lol. Sorry if I was misleading but yes I definitely meant two weeks after my last shot. I have read mixed reviews about taking both torem and clomid together so I guess I will need to look into that some more. What sides could I potentially expect to see?

 

[Volley_Fire]

How old are you?

Clomid can cause any number of side effects. High doses definitely don't agree with my body.

I plan on using it for my next PCT, but instead employing a more modest dosing schedule, perhaps 75/50/25/25 or 50/50/25/25. And I'll stop using it at the first sign of side effects. You might consider similar doses, and likewise dropping the clomid at the first instance of side effects.

Potential clomid side effects:
CNS: headache
EENT: blurred vision, floaters, photophobia, scotomata, phosphenes
CV: hot flashes
GI: abdominal pain, bloating, distention, nausea, vomiting, ↑ liver enzymes
Metabolic: weight gain
Italics indicate most frequent.

Other side effects from clomid can include depression, malaise, and lethargy (which I experienced until a few days after dropping clomid.)

The toremifene doses recommended by jabrel3 is probably what I would use too (if I were using torem).

 

[Weagle12]

How old are you?

Clomid can cause any number of side effects. High doses definitely don't agree with my body.

I plan on using it for my next PCT, but instead employing a more modest dosing schedule, perhaps 75/50/25/25 or 50/50/25/25. And I'll stop using it at the first sign of side effects. You might consider similar doses, and likewise dropping the clomid at the first instance of side effects.

Potential clomid side effects:
CNS: headache
EENT: blurred vision, floaters, photophobia, scotomata, phosphenes
CV: hot flashes
GI: abdominal pain, bloating, distention, nausea, vomiting, ↑ liver enzymes
Metabolic: weight gain
Italics indicate most frequent.

Other side effects from clomid can include depression, malaise, and lethargy (which I experienced until a few days after dropping clomid.)

The toremifene doses recommended by jabrel3 is probably what I would use too (if I were using torem).

I am 23. Thank you for the information. So I guess I should definitely not use both. Would you recommend torem over clomid?

 

[Volley_Fire]

I am 23. Thank you for the information. So I guess I should definitely not use both. Would you recommend torem over clomid?

It's not that you definitely shouldn't use both, just that you're more likely to experience unwanted side effects when using both.

I'm no PCT expert, but I've been picking up a lot of gems from this forum over the past few months. I would probably recommend the previously mentioned torem doses and dosing schedule, along with clomid at 50/50/25/25, or 50/25/25/25. That should be a lot more effective than just using one SERM, while minimizing the chances of side effects. If you experience intolerable side effects, lowering the dose of clomid or dropping it entirely would probably be a good move.

Btw, 23 is a bit young to be using roids, and it caries with it increased risk of long term or permanent damage to your endocrine system. It's wise to wait till at least 25 (preferably 27 or 28). Just an FYI.

 

[Weagle12]

It's not that you definitely shouldn't use both, just that you're more likely to experience unwanted side effects when using both.

I'm no PCT expert, but I've been picking up a lot of gems from this forum over the past few months. I would probably recommend the previously mentioned torem doses and dosing schedule, along with clomid at 50/50/25/25, or 50/25/25/25. That should be a lot more effective than just using one SERM, while minimizing the chances of side effects. If you experience intolerable side effects, lowering the dose of clomid or dropping it entirely would probably be a good move.

Btw, 23 is a bit young to be using roids, and it caries with it increased risk of long term or permanent damage to your endocrine system. It's wise to wait till at least 25 (preferably 27 or 28). Just an FYI.

I appreciate the advice. Yeah I have really enjoyed the cycle so far and short term sides have been minimal aside from the developing gyno issues. But I do believe you are probably right about being a little to young. I will most likely wait a few years before revisiting anabolics.

And just to clear things up and make sure I fully understand, I guess what I am trying to find out is if there is anything I can/should do to treat the gyno issues while I am still on my cycle. I did not know if it would be appropriate or safe to, for instance, maybe take the torem now and throughout the end of my cycle and then do the clomid after I am completely off cycle.

 

[Volley_Fire]

I appreciate the advice. Yeah I have really enjoyed the cycle so far and short term sides have been minimal aside from the developing gyno issues. But I do believe you are probably right about being a little to young. I will most likely wait a few years before revisiting anabolics.

And just to clear things up and make sure I fully understand, I guess what I am trying to find out is if there is anything I can/should do to treat the gyno issues while I am still on my cycle. I did not know if it would be appropriate or safe to, for instance, maybe take the torem now and throughout the end of my cyxcle and then do the clomid after I am completely off cycle.

I believe nolvadex/tamoxifen is commonly recommended to treat gyno while on cycle. Also, keeping estrogen low with an AI is critical for preventing gyno flares.

Are you taking an AI while on cycle? E.g. arimidex, aromasin, or letrozole? If not, I'd get my hands on some pharm-grade AI ASAP, along with some tamoxifen/nolvadex.

@Northern Nutrition might be willing to offer some more knowledgeable insight.

 

[Weagle12]

I believe nolvadex/tamoxifen is commonly recommended to treat gyno while on cycle. Also, keeping estrogen low with an AI is critical for preventing gyno flares.

Are you taking an AI while on cycle? E.g. arimidex, aromasin, or letrozole? If not, I'd get my hands on some pharm-grade AI ASAP, along with some tamoxifen/nolvadex.

@Northern Nutrition might be willing to offer some more knowledgeable insight.

From what I understand through my research, Nolva and other SERMs can have some negative effects if taken on cycle. Torem supposedly does not have the risk for these negative effects if taken while on cycle. Here's where I have read this,

http://www.steroidal.com/anti-estrogens-pct/toremifene/toremifene-dosage/

(Hope I am not breaking any rules by posting another sites link.)

And to answer your question I have not been taking an AI and but I am in the process of finding one now. Letro, most likely. Im usually the type to avoid "learning as you go" but in this case I guess I have no option. From what I have read I am confident I have reserve or if nothing else stop the development of the gyno by taking the Torem through the rest of the cycle and as part of my PCT with the Clomid. Now if only I find an AI soon I should be on the right track.

Also this is just what I have researched online and could be misinformed or may have received outdated information. Please feel free for anyone to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Volley_Fire]

From what I understand through my research, Nolva and other SERMs can have some negative effects if taken on cycle. Torem supposedly does not have the risk for these negative effects if taken while on cycle. Here's where I have read this,

http://www.steroidal.com/anti-estrogens-pct/toremifene/toremifene-dosage/

(Hope I am not breaking any rules by posting another sites link.)

And to answer your question I have not been taking an AI and but I am in the process of finding one now. Letro, most likely. Im usually the type to avoid "learning as you go" but in this case I guess I have no option. From what I have read I am confident I have reserve or if nothing else stop the development of the gyno by taking the Torem through the rest of the cycle and as part of my PCT with the Clomid. Now if only I find an AI soon I should be on the right track.

Also this is just what I have researched online and could be misinformed or may have received outdated information. Please feel free for anyone to correct me if I'm wrong.

It's a bad idea to use nolva nonchalantly whilst on cycle, or as a replacement for an AI, but if you have gyno, it would be wise to take it. I am not aware of torem showing any efficacy in treating gyno while on cycle. Bring your E2 down with an AI (letro is fine, but be careful to not crash your E2) and treat the gyno with tamoxifen.

 

[Genghis K.]

Legit clomid could also make you an emotional rollercoaster. I am not a fan at all, but there is no free lunch in this game.
Letro - got to love it. Strong, gets the job done and little sides. Not trying to crash your E2 with legit Letro is, IMO, a bit of a roll of the dice. Weight, dosage, frequency all impact if you crash your E2 or not.