Tren and Blood Pressure

[dealer]

I am curious as to everyone's experience with Tren and blood pressure.

Current on 500 Test E and 400 Tren E. Using an AI EOD.

My morning heart rate is about 140/90. I am at the 8 week mark and am thinking of stopping Tren.

Was thinking maybe lower the Test by half ?

I am staying hydrated and eat clean.
I have an at home monitor.

I also want to point out it's not that high all day.

Just looking to see what different people have experienced / suggest.

Thanks

 

[Big_paul]

I am curious as to everyone's experience with Tren and blood pressure.

Current on 500 Test E and 400 Tren E. Using an AI EOD.

My morning heart rate is about 140/90. I am at the 8 week mark and am thinking of stopping Tren.

Was thinking maybe lower the Test by half ?

I am staying hydrated and eat clean.
I have an at home monitor.

I also want to point out it's not that high all day.

Just looking to see what different people have experienced / suggest.

Thanks

its been awhile since i used tren but my heart rate was slightly elevated as well as my blood pressure. night sweats also, but for the most part i was able to manage it with lisinopril. check into it with your doc. you can be honest with him if you like, or he will treat the symptoms. no difference, most likely he will know anyway if you are a body builder. 140/90 isn't going to kill you quickly but you should do something to bring it down some.

 

[Dr JIM]

I am curious as to everyone's experience with Tren and blood pressure.

My morning heart rate is about 140/90. I am at the 8 week mark and am thinking of stopping Tren.

I assume u mean your morning BLOOD PRESSURE?
Do you have a HX of HTN?
If so what was your pre-cycle BP

It seems, like many AAS complications, HTN is likely to worsen during a cycle because of the predisposition ALONE. Fact is it's my experience AAS or TRT often uncovers a patients hypertensive predisposition.

What does that mean. CHANCES are if your BP is elevated on AAS your probably an early undiagnosed hypertensive or "prehypertensive" patient and this is unequivocal if the BP is approaching 160/100.

So what to do?

First determine if you are a hypertensive patient? (how's that defined? THREE BP readings exceeding 140/90 on three different days AFTER thirty minutes of rest in the supine position. That's the definition I've used for years and is recognized by the AHA. Others definitions are probably fine, just be consistent!

If your are HTN, do NOT cycle until it's controlled, period.

Why? Because UNLIKE your normotensive colleagues, the BP of hypertensive patients increases (rather than decreases) upon exertion and the levels achieved readily exceed 160/100 (and in some over 200 systolic).

What form of treatment works? Primarily Diuretics, ACE-I, ARBs etc
Combine aerobic activity into exercise regimen
May try limiting the use of those AAS which expand volume such as TT, D-bol, A-drol, Deca, etc


jim

 

[cvictorg]

http://f3.tiera.ru/2/B_Biology/BH_Human/Houston%20M.%20Handbook%20of%20hypertension%20%28Wiley,%202009%29%28ISBN%201405182504%29%28402s%29_BH_.pdf

Nutrition and Nutraceutical Supplements for the Treatment of Hypertension: Part I - Houston - 2013 - The Journal of Clinical Hypertension - Wiley Online Library

Nutrition and Nutraceutical Supplements for the Treatment of Hypertension: Part II - Houston - 2013 - The Journal of Clinical Hypertension - Wiley Online Library

http://www.acamnet.com/houstonf2010none.pdf

http://www.instituteofwomenshealth.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/JANA-Houston-Hypertension-4-02.pdf

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpTxE4Hm5sc]Mark C. Houston - Vascular Biology and Nutrition in Treatment of Cardiovascular Disease - AARM - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Big_paul]

I am curious as to everyone's experience with Tren and blood pressure.

My morning heart rate is about 140/90. I am at the 8 week mark and am thinking of stopping Tren.

I assume u mean your morning BLOOD PRESSURE?
Do you have a HX of HTN?
If so what was your pre-cycle BP

It seems, like many AAS complications, HTN is likely to worsen during a cycle because of the predisposition ALONE. Fact is it's my experience AAS or TRT often uncovers a patients hypertensive predisposition.

What does that mean. CHANCES are if your BP is elevated on AAS your probably an early undiagnosed hypertensive or "prehypertensive" patient and this is unequivocal if the BP is approaching 160/100.

So what to do?

First determine if you are a hypertensive patient? (how's that defined? THREE BP readings exceeding 140/90 on three different days AFTER thirty minutes of rest in the supine position. That's the definition I've used for years and is recognized by the AHA. Others definitions are probably fine, just be consistent!

If your are HTN, do NOT cycle until it's controlled, period.

Why? Because UNLIKE your normotensive colleagues, the BP of hypertensive patients increases (rather than decreases) upon exertion and the levels achieved readily exceed 160/100 (and in some over 200 systolic).

What form of treatment works? Primarily Diuretics, ACE-I, ARBs etc
Combine aerobic activity into exercise regimen
May try limiting the use of those AAS which expand volume such as TT, D-bol, A-drol, Deca, etc


jim

very good advice, i should have listened to my gp when he gave me the same advice. i didnt like using the meds because i felt it took away from my workout. i learned the hard way. i now take lisinopril and metoprolol religiously.

 

[Dr JIM]

There are many who believe the horror stories of yesteryear, because some were indeed TRUE. The side effects of anti-hypertensives as little as ten years ago were
intolerable for many MALES in particular.

The list ranges from occupational sedation, exercise intolerance to sexual dysfunction.

However the anti-hypertensive, armamentarium has expanded considerably over the past ten years, such that very few discontinue therapy because of side effects alone.

jim

 

[dealer]

I assume u mean your morning BLOOD PRESSURE?

Yes Doc, I meant morning blood pressure.

These were my blood pressure results over 6 weeks. You can see my "morning" is around 11 am - 2 pm and later times are my afternoons / evenings. You'll notice the most recent is higher vs the 3rd week in (when i started monitoring this) that its way lower.

2/16 7:21 PM 136/87
2/12 12:25 PM 120/87
2/12 1:01 AM 137/96
2/11 12:03 PM 128/82
2/10 10:31 AM 141/85
2/9 11:34 PM 119/86
2/6 10:37 PM 131/81
2/5 11:49 AM 138/84
2/4 10:32 AM 137/93
2/3 11:14 PM 131/86
1/25 1:00 AM 128/88
1/20 11:22 AM 121/86
1/16 10:36 PM 135/90
1/15 1:31 PM 146/81 (Irregular Heartbeat detected)
1/13 9:38 PM 117/86
1/12 1:54 AM 126/84
1/9 11:58 AM 144/87
1/9 1:43 AM 127/87
1/7 8:30 PM 131/84
1/7 1:55 PM 138/84
1/6 9:25 PM 139/83
1/5 8:39 PM 112/74
1/5 3:00 PM 131/87
1/4 1:57 PM 114/77
1/3 6:57 PM 109/75
1/3 6:56 PM 106/79

Do you have a HX of HTN?

Doc,

I do not have a personal history of hypertension. However, high blood pressure runs in my family (mother and grandmother).

If so what was your pre-cycle BP

I don't have this data. I read a thread by you on the importance of doing this before cycling. Your post back then also led me to buy my current HR monitor. Anyone who reads this get yourself an at home HR monitor.

It seems, like many AAS complications, HTN is likely to worsen during a cycle because of the predisposition ALONE. Fact is it's my experience AAS or TRT often uncovers a patients hypertensive predisposition.

What does that mean. CHANCES are if your BP is elevated on AAS your probably an early undiagnosed hypertensive or "prehypertensive" patient and this is unequivocal if the BP is approaching 160/100.

So what to do?

First determine if you are a hypertensive patient? (how's that defined? THREE BP readings exceeding 140/90 on three different days AFTER thirty minutes of rest in the supine position. That's the definition I've used for years and is recognized by the AHA. Others definitions are probably fine, just be consistent!

If your are HTN, do NOT cycle until it's controlled, period.

Why? Because UNLIKE your normotensive colleagues, the BP of hypertensive patients increases (rather than decreases) upon exertion and the levels achieved readily exceed 160/100 (and in some over 200 systolic).

What form of treatment works? Primarily Diuretics, ACE-I, ARBs etc
Combine aerobic activity into exercise regimen
May try limiting the use of those AAS which expand volume such as TT, D-bol, A-drol, Deca, etc


jim

Doc, I am assuming this baseline test should be done while NOT on AAS ?

I have decided to stop Tren today and lower my Test C dose to 250 mg per week vs 500 mg per week. An 8 week cycle was nice although 10 weeks was the plan.

In my scenario, or anyone else, should one take BP medication during this type of cycle with the above numbers ?

I have some Prazosin laying around (PTSD medicaiton I don't take) would that of allowed me to "continue through" the cycle ?

Thanks for you help as usual.

 

[Dr JIM]

What's your age?

Oh yea your considered "prehypertensive" (>120/80 but <140/90) mate, because with the passage of time your BP will INCREASE.

The average about 0.5-1mmHg / year. (So your age is quite relevant)

To be sure perform similar readings when your NOT cycling!
jim

 

[Dr JIM]

Shit I'm not one for alarmism when it comes to BP and you shouldn't be either.

I see patients ALL day long with BP in the 160 range and a few in the 220 range yet most are without symptoms.

BPs of 140/90 don't cause problems at all really but once it creeps into the 160 range that's when M&M begins to increase. SO STAY ONE TOP OF IT, THATS ALL FELLA!

Really am not to concerned about a few BP readings above 140/90.

Fact is I've no problem completing the cycle fella and NO I don't believe starting anti-hypertensive therapy is warranted AT ALL especially with Prazosin an alpha blocker which can cause orthostasis.

The latter can cause you to perform an unintentional face plant

Regards mate
jim

 

[Dr JIM]

Someone with your BP is typically started on a diuretic as first line. Usually between 25-50 mg of hydrochlorothiazide / day AND/OR discontinuation of the offending agent if known.

Thus chances are the AAS didn't cause your HTN, but rather revealed it. Hey this is very IMPORTANT.

It's the CHRONICITY of HTN that creates problems NOT ISOLATED increases of BP which naturally occur!!!

jim

 

[supralevels]

With tren my bp rises more than when I'm on test alone. Why do people on this forum run there test higher then their tren btw? Should byou run more tren and keep your test low like 150mg?

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

Shit I'm not one for alarmism when it comes to BP and you shouldn't be either.

I see patients ALL day long with BP in the 160 range and a few in the 220 range yet most are without symptoms.

I had a BP of ~170/105 at the doctor's office last year. It was only a one time thing, thankfully. Normally, it varies between ~110/70 to 130/90 at the most. Any idea why it went so high that time? I know, I know, could be many reasons but it was quite usual for me. Pulse was racing as well - +120 beats, IIR.

BPs of 140/90 don't cause problems at all really but once it creeps into the 160 range that's when M&M begins to increase. SO STAY ONE TOP OF IT, THATS ALL FELLA!

What is M&M?

Fact is I've no problem completing the cycle fella and NO I don't believe starting anti-hypertensive therapy is warranted AT ALL especially with Prazosin an alpha blocker which can cause orthostasis.

The latter can cause you to perform an unintentional face plant

Hopefully not when you're under the bar.

 

[Dr JIM]

Hey I overlooked your HX of Prazosin use for PTSD. If you tolerated that med by all means use it if desired. (FYI; VERY FEW BP meds reduce BP by more than 10mmHg )

BUT remember that drug can cause problems for BB especially during any wo which involves a valsalva maneuver, squats in particular!!

So don't "hold your breath" when lifting since doing so impedes blood flow back to the heart and can cause dizziness, or that FP I referred to earlier

 

[Dr JIM]

M & M = Mortality and Morbidity based on Framingham study.

(It's the absolute BEST longitudinal HTN study out there. It began in the 1950's and continues to this day)

 

[Dr JIM]

Hmm
CBS your BP was in the170s and the HR around 120, could be Pheochromocytoma or "white coat HTN".

Shall we begin testing for that Pheo today [)]

Best
jimmy

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

M & M = Mortality and Morbidity based on Framingham study.

(It's the absolute BEST longitudinal HTN study out there. It began in the 1950's and continues to this day)

I should have known that.

I am familiar with the Framingham study, though.

Hmm
CBS your BP was in the170s and the HR around 120, could be Pheochromocytoma or "white coat HTN".

Shall we begin testing for that Pheo today [)]

Best
jimmy

I suppose white coat HTN is the most likely explanation but it's never been that high at the doctor's office before.

Considering this was over a year ago and the BP and HR returned to normal shortly thereafter, I'm hoping that rules out pheochromocytoma - although being a bit of a hypochondriac, I'm sure my BP is up at least 30 points right now after reading THAT possible explanation.

You know, I only come to Meso for relaxation, not further stress. Now you've got me wondering if there might be more to my heat intolerance than just having spent too much time in a cold climate.

 

[Dr JIM]

Yes but doctor yet if there is ANY chance I could have a reversible form (surgical resection is often curative) of HTN why wouldn't you test me.

Is it my insurance plan I purchased on that BAMA health web site. No sir, it's just a very rare disorder and is highly unlikely based on your history alone.

But doctor where did you go to medical school? I told you when I entered I wanted "everything done" and I mean everything!

Oh I see!
Here's the lab order slip, feel free to check those tests you believe are indicated.

Hmm Ok, let me see that. Goodness there are well over two hundred tests here, I really don't know where to begin, but, I'm, not, really.............

Would you like some assistance? Oh please, by all means!!
Start with a HISTORY and PHYSICAL!

But YOU already did that!

My point exactly, lol!

(That event happens about once every 6 months in my and most Doctors offices and that is EXACTLY how I handle it)

jim

 

[Dr JIM]

......
......


Yes but doctor yet if there is ANY chance I could have a reversible form (surgical resection is often curative) of HTN why wouldn't you test me.

Is it my insurance plan I purchased on that BAMA health web site. No sir, it's just a very rare disorder and is highly unlikely based on your history alone.

But doctor where did you go to medical school? I told you when I entered I wanted "everything done" and I mean everything!

Oh I see!
Here's the lab order slip, feel free to check those tests you believe are indicated.

Hmm Ok, let me see that. Goodness there are well over two hundred tests here, I really don't know where to begin, but, I'm, not, really.............

Would you like some assistance? Oh please, by all means!!
Start with a HISTORY and PHYSICAL!

But YOU already did that!

My point exactly, lol!

(That event happens about once every 6 months in my and most Doctors offices and that is EXACTLY how I handle it)

jim

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

......
......


Yes but doctor yet if there is ANY chance I could have a reversible form (surgical resection is often curative) of HTN why wouldn't you test me.

Is it my insurance plan I purchased on that BAMA health web site. No sir, it's just a very rare disorder and is highly unlikely based on your history alone.

But doctor where did you go to medical school? I told you when I entered I wanted "everything done" and I mean everything!

Oh I see!
Here's the lab order slip, feel free to check those tests you believe are indicated.

Hmm Ok, let me see that. Goodness there are well over two hundred tests here, I really don't know where to begin, but, I'm, not, really.............

Would you like some assistance? Oh please, by all means!!
Start with a HISTORY and PHYSICAL!

But YOU already did that!

My point exactly, lol!

(That event happens about once every 6 months in my and most Doctors offices and that is EXACTLY how I handle it)

jim

Nice! [)]

In my case above, the roles were reversed. I wasn't seen by my usual physician. It was a woman filling in due to a vacation or some such. She was so concerned with the BP and HR being so high that she ordered every test known to man - ECG, CXR and filled out a lab slip a mile long, checking just about every box it had, including HIV and syphilis. The only thing she left out was a visit to the cath lab, although I'm sure it crossed her mind.

I politely took the lab slips and never bothered following through. I went back to my regular doctor two weeks later and he just shook his head.

BTW, everything had returned to normal. Maybe it was just her?

 

[ranman32566]

My bood pressure on Tren A was 190-200/110-120

Never felt any sides...but went to the DRS on they put me on LOSARTAN