UPDATE: Hrt for life at 24?

[cutler91]

I was on 1g of test a week for 2 years straight. It ended now 20 weeks ago and my nuts are huge thanks to HCG and I'm doing clomid now but still have problems.

New blood test results:

Free Test - 61.0 (30-130)
Random T - 30.8 (8-29.5)
Estradiol - 125 (<200)
FSH - 7.3 (<7)
LH - 33.1 (<12)

I've been doing a standard clomid cycle for the past 30 days (300-100-50-25)
and my LH and FSH are high, test is slowly coming up but i still feel like shit, no energy, absolutely zero libido and haven't had morning wood since the stone age.

My Question is this:
I know my problem is related most likely to Leydig cell desensitization (which will take time to recover) -- but would it be beneficial or detrimental to do a low dose of say androgel or cyp (prescribed) to see if it would help with my overall wellbeing. I'm feeling so down I can't take it anymore. Also, how much exogenous test can you take (weekly) before it becomes detrimental to your natural test production? Or should I just wait it out and be patient?


Thanks

 

[Axl]

Hi Cutler91,

Your bloodwork looks quite good in fact. I wish I had numbers like that. I would not add any T at all: I don't think you need it.

Your LH is skyhigh and your FSH is also aroung the maximum range. Are you still doing HCG shots? If the answer is yes, I would consider lowering the dose: you might be "overshooting" with HCG. Your say your nuts are huge and they are producing more than enough LH to produce your own endogenous Testosterone. (It's a bit strange that the LH is not low, because that's what happens when injecting HCG).

I think you are feeling badly because you are overcompensating with HCG. It looks like your body is ready for you to lower the HCG, your HPG-axis seems to be working fine, so it's just a matter of one or two months and your endocrine system is back on track.

I am not a doc. Just a guy with hypogonadism....

 

[Axl]

HRT for life

...and NO you will NOT need HRT for life. Your body seems to recover quite well. (You should have thought about that before you started juicin', but it's not up to me to make judgements about that).

The best thing you can do is to sit it out and to be patient about it.

 

[mxim]

lets see what your levels are after 3 months of not taking any hcg or clomid. that will give you an indication of where you are. bro,i know you are a young guy,buy 1000mgs of test a week for 2 years? c'mon! that is not smart. if you want to use AAS,then take at least 3 months off/ don't get me wrong,i have my share of cycles under my belt fbut take it from a guy who used on and off for a long time and at half the dosages you were taking and i ALWAYS took time off: its not smart. i said it once and i will say it again,there is nothing healthy about the sport of bodybuilding.its a sleazy sport with sleazy people. many are male prostitutes and many are hooked on all kinds of drugs. i love muscles and being big,but put things in perspective and play it safe.
mxim

 

[earthdog]

I don't think these numbers are good at all. Random T - I'm not familiar with that. Is that the same as total T? That's high, but free test is low. That would indicate high levels of SHBG and/or albumin. And I'm particularly concerned about the estradiol number. Did you get an estradiol test specifically for men (also called ultra sensitive, or by extraction, and some other names)? If you didn't specifically get one of those, then the test you got was for women, and if that's the case then your estradiol level is normal for a woman but is sky-high for a man. That would also help to explain the low levels of free T, as SHBG increases as estradiol increases. You might need arimidex or DIM to combat that. But I wouldn't start either of those until you can confirm whether or not you got the correct estradiol test.

Here's my suggestion: get retested, and this time include tests for SHBG, albumin, DHT and total estrogen. Also get an ultra-sensitive estradiol test for men. If it turns out that your estradiol is high, then you need to go on arimidex or DIM to bring it down. That might make everything else fall into place.

The clomid dosages you're taking are extremely high. Swale says men should never take more than 25mg a day. He considers 25mg a high dose. You should taper down from 25, cutting it in half for a week, and then in half again, before ceasing it.

 

[Random987]

Also, if your LH and FSH numbers are high, as you stated, there could be an issue with your testes being able to produce test, in other words, primary hypogonadism. I echo earthdogs recommendations.

 

[benroc]

your use to so much test in your body when you dont have it you feel like shit , thats whats happen to me , took a good 6 months to finally feel better , but my body never recovered fully so im back test but at a trt dose of testim , nothing crazy like i used to , good luck to you take some fisl oil and eat alot of oats , frees up test and make depression go away for some !!

 

[Matt Muscle]

Firstly... your estrogen test is inaccurate because you are on clomid. So it is really not possible to tell what your E2 level will be.
I would not entertain the idea of taking any exo test at this stage, as that will just undo what you are trying to achieve here... and that is some sort of recovery after very high and extended testosterone use.
The reason you are probably feeling like crap is most likely from the clomid itself... It is without doubt helping to stimulate your pituitary to once again produce gonadatrophins.... but at the same time, as it is a weak estrogen it is exerting some estrogen like effects on some of your receptors... I think the degree of this varies from person to person... and it can possibly effect different receptors on different people... The dosage you have been taking could also contribute to the high estrogen like effects.... hence the low libido depression etc. Once you discontinue the clomid the sides you are experiencing should go away and hopefully your HPTA will eventually stabilise.
I would keep your dose at 25 mgs per day and then taper as Swale says. Your body has been used to a very high level of testosterone and it will take many months for it to become sensitive again to natural levels of the hormone.
Try and remain positive and hopefully your body will recover.. which is what you want at your age.

 

[buck]

IMHO you will probably feel bad for quite a while since you are used to very hi T levels and you need to get used to being in the normal range again.

 

[greatgro]

IMHO you will probably feel bad for quite a while since you are used to very hi T levels and you need to get used to being in the normal range again.

I agree. Your levels look good. You're free test isn't great but most of your other numbers are. And free test isn't terrible either. I think you've just got to wait it out the next six months or so. Soon you'll get used to "normal" lower test levels and then you should be fine.

 

[benroc]

take a small dose of ldex .25 every 3 day and get estrodial numbers checked in a month , works , your esto should be lower then 50 , mine was that high once and i felt like that too , not good for you either