Zottman curls...anyone with pos or neg feedback?

[Freddy]

freddy i respect your advice and opinions as you already know but i'm going to play a little devil's advocate here. what about the difference in muscle quality or appearance, if you will, between those who do direct arm work vs. those who don't? you say js has 23" arms but how do they compare, visually, to lee priest's which are about 20". and i say visually because a huge component in bodybuilding is a visual effect of developing the muscle group.

it doesn't seem that the arm development of the 'no direct work arm work' camp would lag behind that of the other group. i would think the latter group would have arms that were more defined, separated (clear deliniation in the triceps heads, clearly deliniated brachialis, biceps peak, vascularity, etc....) and, well, more muscular-looking than in the former group. to me these factors are more important than just sheer size or mass. what do you guys think?

Read Bob Smith's post, as he beat me to it for the most part.

The only other factor would be the degree of sarcoplasmic hypertrophy compared to hypertrophy of the actual sarcomere (myofibrils, etc). The person with more hypertrophy of the sarcomere would have more "denser", "harder" looking muscles, assuming they were at comparable bodyfat percentage levels.

Now, its not really fair to compare JS to someone a foot shorter than him, because we all know shorter guys (like myself) look bigger than we actually are.

But considering JS trains in the smaller rep range (1-5 reps) as opposed to Lee Priest's 5-20 reps, than JS would have denser, harder looking arms.

As far as who would have a better "peak" and all that nonsense, thats genetically predetermined based on your individual insertions and origins, tendon lengths, etc. You can't change any of this from doing concentration curls, or anything else.

So if you have ugly arms, you'll always have ugly arms. Interestingly enough with regard to this discussion, everyone in JS's family has really great bicep genetics (not that JS cares).

Again, everyone is way too concerned with their bicep routines. My little brother is absolutely floored by how much bigger his arms have gotten...and we do minimal curling. His arms have grown a lot because we squat like crazy, and train our back 4 times a week.

 

[Bob Smith]

Freddy, youre a stud. Guys, Freddy might be one of the smallest guys on the board, but pound for pound hes probably one of the strongest. A damn 3x bodyweight box squat recently!! 2x bodyweight bench and close to 3x BW deadlift. BEsides that, I would rank him in the top 5 most knowledgeable guys on this board when it comes to training.

Freddy, Ill be in Boston tomorrow night, but wont be around long enough to take a trip up your way. Hope all is well with school and the lil lady.

 

[Grizzly]

Again, everyone is way too concerned with their bicep routines. My little brother is absolutely floored by how much bigger his arms have gotten...and we do minimal curling. His arms have grown a lot because we squat like crazy, and train our back 4 times a week.

And that's basically what I was driving at in my earlier post that doesn't make sense. By taking the empahsis away from the biceps/triceps it actually works to accelerate the development of the arms. Kinda cool how that works, eh?

 

[Bob Smith]

And that's basically what I was driving at in my earlier post that doesn't make sense. By taking the empahsis away from the biceps/triceps it actually works to accelerate the development of the arms. Kinda cool how that works, eh?

Less is often more.

 

[Freddy]

Bob Smith, haha, thanks bud, remember I'm not saying anything new...the mantra of "squat hard and often" is an oldie but a goodie as it goes. Lemme know when you do have time to stick around and we'll get some Guiness. Get online more often so we can chat, haven't talked to you in a while. The lil lady is good, too.

Grizz you're definitely on to something. Like I said before, I tell people to curl anyway, mostly because I find that they will regardless of the advice I give them. But hopefully I can convince them to squat, deadlift, and barbell row pretty hard too.

 

[Freddy]

Let me just say this...for 95% of the people on this board, the best arm routines are either HST and the 5x5.

I guess since most people like direct arm work, they should go with HST. And by HST I mean the pure, unaltered HST...not the "Oh, I just changed a few things to suit it to my imaginery individual needs" HST with 10 sets of bicep curls.

 

[Bob Smith]

, or you could cut sets in half every 3 weeks so anabolic hormones are used to build muscles rather than recover.

Hence the term "anabolic."

Freddy, Im online quite a bit, but usually dont take down my away message. IM me in the evenings and theres a good chance Ill be around. The next time Ill be in your general area for a period of time will be Thanksgiving. Not sure how long Ill be there for, probably 3-4 days.

 

[buck]

Heavier back work = bigger biceps.

 

[Grizzly]

Less is often more.

Aahhh, you a very, very wise man, Bobfucious.

 

[Chip Bronson]

thanks bob. i meant to write that for the comparison both guys would be at the same bf% (theoretically). so at the same bf% you're saying js's arms would look better? i'm not doubting you, it's just hard because i'm fighting years and years of misinformation. but that's why i'm here. to clarify, ask and learn. thanks again. and you too freddy.

Chippy, I think the difference between JS's 23 inch cannons and Priests 20 inchers is level of bodyfat and is not related to direct stimulation. If JS was ever so inclined to get shredded (dont hold your breath), then His arms would be plenty spectacular.

 

[Bob Smith]

thanks bob. i meant to write that for the comparison both guys would be at the same bf% (theoretically). so at the same bf% you're saying js's arms would look better? i'm not doubting you, it's just hard because i'm fighting years and years of misinformation. but that's why i'm here. to clarify, ask and learn. thanks again. and you too freddy.

Again, its so difficult to say whos arms would look better even given the same bf%. Priest probably comes up to JS's armpits, so 21 inch arms on a midget look insanely huge. JS has monsterous arms, but at well over 6 feet, the proportions arent as striking.

Bobfuscious is now heading to a tropical island and shall return in a week.

 

[Kal-El]

The whole idea of Zottman curls, is to add another exercise to blast the arms at the end of your routine. It allows you to put the work on the bicep during the concentric motion, and puts the load on the forearm (taking it off the bicep) during the eccentric. It's suggested to be used at the end of your bicep workout.

Although, I am totally with the idea of squatting. Your legs are the biggest muscle in the body. By building those, it helps support the rest of the muscle growth in your body.