Cycle Help Needed

[RockRambo]

Hi,

I am 5'10'' at 168 lbs. I did a "half-ass / screwed up" cycle of Test E and ended it in Dec 2013. The cycle looked like this 250,250,500,500,500,250. I didn't have much time so did this kind of a cycle. My bf % right now is around 20%.
My goal is to gain 8-10 kgs of lean muscle mass with bf % in the range that my abs are visible (could be 9-10%?). I am thinking to target it by the first week of Oct 2014. My plan is to follow a cyclical ketogenic diet (Mon through Fri 70% fat, 30% protein, negligible carbs < 20 gm and then Sat and Sun - eat anything and everything) for 3 months - Apr, May and June to cut back to 14%. Then, I am thinking to do a 8 week bulking up cycle followed by a 4 week pct by the end of September. However, I am having quite a lot of questions about it:

1. If I think of cutting for 3 months, should I use T3, clen, etc right now to get faster results?
2. When I think of bulking up with an 8 week cycle, my calorie intake has to be quite above my AMR, say, 3500, which effectively means, that I will gain fat as well and some bloating even if I use an AI (given, I use compounds such as Test E, Sustanon, etc.). Also, I can't think of cutting during pct or even 1-2 months after it. So, I will be only bulked up by Oct but not at the desirable fat %age.
3. Hence, is there a way, I can think of bulking and cutting in the same cycle? I don't think so I should start with a bulking cycle right now because I want to wait for 5-6 months after I ended my last cycle in Dec 2013.
4. What should I do? Also, what compounds should I use to achieve my goals?

 

[kc89]

You will not stay in ketosis with sat + sun carb eating, It can take upto 14days before your body is fully in ketosis. If you feed carbs on weekend your body will know and never reach ketosis in 5 days.

1cycle @ a time bro, you dont need t3 or clen if your diet in check but it will of course give you an extra kick.

 

[RockRambo]

You will not stay in ketosis with sat + sun carb eating, It can take upto 14days before your body is fully in ketosis. If you feed carbs on weekend your body will know and never reach ketosis in 5 days.

1cycle @ a time bro, you dont need t3 or clen if your diet in check but it will of course give you an extra kick.

Hey, well, what they generally recommend is 14 days can be used as an 'induction' phase and after that you can do a carb up over the weekends..I am just trying this diet to see the results.. Additionally, I don't eat meat/eggs/fish, so it is exceptionally tough for me to limit my carb intake to less than 30 gms and source only protein and fat..

 

[carhauler]

No eggs,meat, or fish i suppose it is tough to get protein. Actually nearly impossible! I mean how do u even get protein? Powder? Only thing i can think off. Anyways first the diet. Yeah i would get my fat down to 15 tops. Everybody i ever saw do bulking cycle at high bodyfat basically just blew up n became lil more muscular larger version of themself. Kinna like when people diet wrong and lose muscle along with the fat and dont get ripped, instead they become smaller versions of themself.

From my experiences you can do keto diet 5 on weekends off. Its tricky however. If u only do 5 days ketosis for one u must be strict! No more than 20grams carbs per day. Then when you carb load you dont dont load overly aggressive. Because Although in ketosis your not as deep in ketosis. So therefore you dont need as heavy a carb load. If u carb load to heavy it will be counterproductive and when u begin ketosis on monday it will take longer to get back in ketosis.

As for your cycle make it complete cycle. I suppose from that first cycle u made some gains because it being your first. If your second looks like that you may as well just eat 2 Bananas a day. You'll get the same gains.

You can gain muscle n lose more fat on same cycle but again its tricky. You wanna stay away from water retention cycles and eat clean. High protein low/moderate fat(closer to low side) and moderate good clean low glycemic carbs. I usually throw clen in at the end of lean muscle gains cycle. At the end of lean muscle cycles once gains slow down i usually throw in the clen and drop the fat and the carbs to some. So this way im losing all fat and slightly gaining muscle or at least not losing muscle to.

You can add the t3 with clen although i never have.t3 u MUST b careful with! Or else u can screw up your thyroid permanantly. Research and ask around. I do remember u must start low pyramid up and taper off. However i dont exactly remember how long. Do not usr t3 til u get it straight!

With a good plan and lots of discipline you could be sub 10 bodyfat by midsummer. Wish u well and ask any questions u may have
Car-h

 

[carhauler]

Btw with correct stack u could use deca or eq. Deca stacks well with winstrol for lean muscle. I believe the winstrol counters the effect of the progesterone and u retain far less water and harden up. Correct me if im off on the winstrol/progesterone thing somebody. Eq can be stacked with almost anything that doesnt cause much water retention including winstrol. Wish u luck
Car-h

 

[RockRambo]

Btw with correct stack u could use deca or eq. Deca stacks well with winstrol for lean muscle. I believe the winstrol counters the effect of the progesterone and u retain far less water and harden up. Correct me if im off on the winstrol/progesterone thing somebody. Eq can be stacked with almost anything that doesnt cause much water retention including winstrol. Wish u luck
Car-h

thanks for the elaborate replies buddy..just a quick question - I am scared of the deca 'd**k' problem.. so i am quite averse to using it..what i am thinking could be a good bulking cycle be -
1. Sustanon 250 - 500 mg per week for 12 weeks
2. Winstrol - 1 ml eod for last 4 weeks

I can also use Clen in the last 4 weeks of the cycle where I plan to restrict my calories much below maintenance.. the AAS will help holding the muscle and Winstrol and Clen will help losing fat..

What I am worried about is the water retention ...Even if I use an AI, I will 'bloat' up because of eating above maintenance to bulk up..

 

[RockRambo]

No eggs,meat, or fish i suppose it is tough to get protein. Actually nearly impossible! I mean how do u even get protein? Powder? Only thing i can think off. Anyways first the diet. Yeah i would get my fat down to 15 tops. Everybody i ever saw do bulking cycle
From my experiences you can do keto diet 5 fat and slightly gaining muscle or at least not losing muscle to.........................
With a good plan and lots of discipline you could be sub 10 bodyfat by midsummer. Wish u well and ask any questions u may have
Car-h

Yes, I get protein from whey (4 scoops) and cheese (10 slices a day) which makes nearly 140-150 gms of protein per day.. 70% of my calories are coming from fat (which is plain butter !!! ) I know this sounds crazy but when I began looking for the food items which will have negligible carbs and all fat and protein, what I could find were only meat/ fish/eggs. So, all those food products are out for me..!! .. The rest of the fat products are - Butter, heavy cream MCT oil.. I just zeroed-in to only butter for manging things.. It is giving me some digestive problems but they're manageable.. I am consuming around 2000-2200 calories per day which are around 15-18% below my AMR.. My carbs are for sure less than 20 gms because I have counted the carbs in the three food products that I am "eating" - Whey, butter and cheese.. hence, I believe the metabolic shift from carbs to fat is happening for me by the third day (Wednesday) of the diet..
On Sunday, by the evening, I eat only low GI carbs such as fruits, cereals and milk and don't eat any starchy ones.. Saturday and Sunday morning, I eat anything and everything ..but I will surely watch out from now on and eat clean..
I plan to continue with this diet for 3 months to cut back to 13-14% fat preserving as much muscle as possible.. I think, I can do this naturally w/o clen/T3 support..or may be I use clen in the last month..

My workouts are - Chest/Triceps, Back/Biceps, Shoulders/Legs on M,T,W and Th, F, S respectively.. I do some HIIT (15 sec sprint, 45 sec walk * 7-8 times) on T and F..I use drop sets at times and heavy weights (lifting as much as possible for good 6-8 reps on this diet)..

What I don't want is when I bulk up, if I be very cautious of the fat, etc. I end up eating less and hence, my gains are restricted.. Clean bulking definitely means adding lean muscle and as less amount of water and fat as possible.. But then after bulking up I will have to do a 4 week pct and then wait for 6-8 weeks more to start cutting.. But, then I would want a good bulk (adding quite good amount of lean muscle mass) such that when I cut back , I lose some amount of it but still look good..

Am I going in the right direction?

 

[brutus79]

Why no meat? Eggs? Fish?

 

[RockRambo]

Why no meat? Eggs? Fish?

Just a choice - being vegetarian

 

[RockRambo]

thanks for the elaborate replies buddy..just a quick question - I am scared of the deca 'd**k' problem.. so i am quite averse to using it..what i am thinking could be a good bulking cycle be -
1. Sustanon 250 - 500 mg per week for 12 weeks
2. Winstrol - 1 ml eod for last 4 weeks

I can also use Clen in the last 4 weeks of the cycle where I plan to restrict my calories much below maintenance.. the AAS will help holding the muscle and Winstrol and Clen will help losing fat..

What I am worried about is the water retention ...Even if I use an AI, I will 'bloat' up because of eating above maintenance to bulk up..

Additionally, this is what my lifting looks like on a no carb diet

I know this would sound pretty average but currently on the no carb diet this is what my lifting looks like -

Flat bench press (weight inclusive of the 20 kg olympic barbell) - 70 kgs * 10 good quality reps, 80 kgs * 5 'half-reps' , 80 kgs * 5 'half-reps', 60 kgs * 6 reps (bench press to the neck) , 60 kgs * 6 reps (bench press to the neck)

No spotter used and not more than 1 min rest between sets..

What would your opinion be on this lifting? Is it actually poor or on the average side..?

 

[carhauler]

With no spotter throw some dumbell sets in there. Your last set go drop burnout set. Keep dropping the weight til u get down to 10kg then rep out the 10 kg til complete failure. Once U have completed that rest 2-3 minutes b4 beginning next exercise. Cuz u will need it.
Btw yes a lowcarb diet is really hard being a vegan. You should get some low carb soy products. Like they have soy scrambled eggs actually tastes like eggs for most part. Theres low carb soy tofu, low carb soy milk and even low carb milk. There is also low carb soy cheese,with veggie flavor added variety. These are some ideas to get your protein up and decrease your fat intake a little. It will make your diet more productive while being healthier for you. Make sure u get your raw greens in there every day.

When u start your cycle you definitely want to scrap the keto diet for a more traditional Clean diet rich in protein and good clean carbs and fat. Have u decided to do a bulking cycle and wait for a cutting cycle? How many kg of muscle do u want to add? Since u dont want any water weight u could do a lean musclegain cycle while losing a little fat at same time. It depends on how much muscle you r looking to gain. Let us know and i have a couple possible cycles in mind that we can get approved by the vets. Me and my friends all returned to gym last yr after taking several years off. Were doing our cycles in may. Im researching to refresh my memory. The bloodwork stuff and what it all means is the cloudiest still yet but its coming back. It took me a minute to think of the foods vegetarians ate for high protein/low carbs. They have a lot more low carb high protein soy products on the market like low carb soy pudding,low carb soy/veggie burgers and hot dogs. Theres even a low carb high protein bread. However it still contains carbs so u have to limit it.

Yep u have to get creative when doing high protein low carbs while being a vegetarian.
Car-h

 

[RockRambo]

With no spotter throw some dumbell sets in there. Your last set go drop burnout set. Keep dropping the weight til u get down to 10kg then rep out the 10 kg til complete failure. Once U have completed that rest 2-3 minutes b4 beginning next exercise. Cuz u will need it.
Btw yes a lowcarb diet is really hard being a vegan. When u start your cycle you definitely want to scrap the keto diet for a more traditional Clean diet rich in protein and good clean carbs and fat. Have u decided to do a bulking cycle and wait for a cutting cycle? .... They have a lot more low carb high protein soy products on the market like low carb soy pudding,low carb soy/veggie burgers and hot dogs. Theres even a low carb high protein bread. However it still contains carbs so u have to limit it.
Car-h

1. Well the goals are to pack "some" good muscle tissue (not getting huge!!) but at the same time getting < 10% body fat which would make the body look good..
Is that possible in the same cycle? (I think more than a cycle, what matters is the food that you're eating, like less food then cut and more food then bulk; of course AAS helps in either but what you eat is what you becomes holds true)
2. I researched on soy products as well but found carbs in them.. Actually, I calculated the amount of carbs to the T and limited them to less than 20 gms per day to ensure ketosis.. So that's what I am doing right now.. I aim to get to 13-14% body fat preserving most of my muscle such that when I go back on a clean bulking diet , I reach at 17% body fat..

 

[kramer]

1. Well the goals are to pack "some" good muscle tissue (not getting huge!!) but at the same time getting < 10% body fat which would make the body look good..
Is that possible in the same cycle? (I think more than a cycle, what matters is the food that you're eating, like less food then cut and more food then bulk; of course AAS helps in either but what you eat is what you becomes holds true)
2. I researched on soy products as well but found carbs in them.. Actually, I calculated the amount of carbs to the T and limited them to less than 20 gms per day to ensure ketosis.. So that's what I am doing right now.. I aim to get to 13-14% body fat preserving most of my muscle such that when I go back on a clean bulking diet , I reach at 17% body fat..

stay clear of soy products, it raises estrogen

 

[carhauler]

He is using an AI so he should be ok. He is a vegetarian so protein options are limited. This way he doesnt have to rely on whey as much

Btw a meal replacement powder is good to add. They have them In low carb variety and they taste much better than plain protein powder. I still love met-rx. Been drinkink it since 1997. Labrada was my favorite but they stopped making them

 

[kc89]

Butter is your only source of fat, do u eat veggies for micronutrients? you diet lacks micronutrients.
How do you feel about using other fats such as peanut butter, olive oil ?
Are there no vegetarian meat substitutes you can eat ?

 

[RockRambo]

Butter is your only source of fat, do u eat veggies for micronutrients? you diet lacks micronutrients.
How do you feel about using other fats such as peanut butter, olive oil ?
Are there no vegetarian meat substitutes you can eat ?

Well, I am getting fat from butter and cheese (Gouda cheese has 24 gm of protein and 29 gm fat and 1gm carbs in 100 gm.)..Peanut butter does have good amount of carbs which will take me out of ketosis..Yes, olive oil, MCT oil, etc can be used but I just didnt put efforts in including them..however, i will check them whether i can eat them like that..as in, scoops of olive oil at night..
Vegetarian meat substitutes etc will be canned food or something else..all of them will have salt for preservation and carbs in them ...

I don't care about the diet being tough for me as I do a carb up on the weekends..
Yes, I am also not eating veggies as I did find some carbs in them, however, salad, etc can provide good fiber and their carbs wont contribute to the Glycogen as well.. But, it is tough to cook them myself..may be I can think of buying only veg salad..

 

[brutus79]

You have two choices- be a pussy vegetarian and forget about getting big and you will just get fat OR eat animal products and lift weights. No meat products = pick a new hobby

 

[tubesox]

^ that made my day

 

[kc89]

You stated you did not put enough effort into including fats, you can find low/zero carb peanut butter, make your own if need be.
There is no easy way, only 1 nutrient repairs + build muscle which is your goal PROTEIN and you can't put in the effort to find a list of foods that fit your diet, being vegetarian means 1thing only, u have made it harder for yourself,TRY harder.
''Vegetarian meat substitutes etc will be canned food or something else..all of them will have salt for preservation and carbs in them''
Is this fact or are you too lazy to look ?

 

[write]

vegetarianism is so wrong for men.

that is all///