Effects of HGH?

[power36]

This is not apples to apples comparison. In relation to muscle development hgh and aas work in completely different ways. Steroids increase muscle cell "activities" like increasing the size of the cell by causing enhanced receptor activity and increasing the number of receptors in a cell. From my rudimentary knowledge banks (basically Internet chat rooms and Llewellyn ' book once) steroids do not increase the NUMBER of cells. That is a genetic/predisposed number.
Hgh actually creates NEW cells. The fat loss is nice and all, but pharm gh in the 9-12 iu range every day has some marked weight plateaus getting smashed courtesy of muscle cell proliferation combined with enhanced receptor activity from steroids on the new cells and existing cells. Another big advantage is a big reduction in catabolism... when I am running gh my weight is far more stable in a bulk, and I retain far more of it after.

If you don't have enough to run 9-12 ius a day (6 minimum) and you are looking for muscle growth you will be disappointed. Buy some test. Way cheaper to get swole. Running 2 iu a day is a waste in my opinion- supressive of your natural dose which is basically the same amount. 4iu will have some joint relief from cartilage repair, weight loss,, my nails grow quick and shit but that's about it. Double it on a steroid blast and you blow the fuck up. Gh alone? Waste of fucking time.

Can you give some examples of how you have run it along a cycle? 9-12iu daily, subQ or IM, what time of day, etc? So 8iu or more with AAS you've seen big gains? Would really love to hear the personal experience!

 

[brutus79]

I follow a protocol of 18iu eod at night before bed for the most part. No carbs before pin for at least an hour- preferably more. I do every other day so I can eat myself to death every other night and fast for the pin every other night. I was at a wall of 272 lb morning weight for a long time... Started the growth and was waking up over 280 within a month with no real change to diet or training. After getting to about 285 I hopped off the hgh and gear and I am pretty much a 280 guy now. It makes me tired and neuropathy fucks with my sleep bad... But big at all costs I guess

 

[power36]

That is hard core. I used to do EOD IM pre-workout at higher doses and I was strong and lean, but had everything else dialed in too. Got convinced from some other HRT guys that doing it SubQ daily was just as good at anytime during day (because of scientific explanations that I cannot recall), so some do it soon as waking up, others before bed, and for some who do higher doses some docs/clinics suggest splitting it up half post workout and other half before bed. Gets so confusing hearing so many varying opinions.

No one has advised me to stay off carbs around the shot time, but way back many years I do recall another forum warning folks of GH causing diabetes if done wrong, so would this have something to do with you fasting at those times?

Hope I am not hijacking this thread, rare for me to get access to someone who has this kind of GH experience.

My hands bother me sometimes during sleep for sure...I think over the years my feet have grown wider, I seriously have gone up in shoe size width hah

 

[Mr.B66]

Ive also read that if you are not using T-4 you are wasting half your money. I cant explain it in scientific terms, but basically the process of converting t-4 to t-3 is a big part of making GH more effective. Also supposed to help, if not do away with lethargy.
I picked up some t-4 from MJR,so not pharm grade. Anyway it makes me feel like complete shit, now i don't know if pharm grade would be completely diff, i might give it a try but if it isn't then there is no way i can add it to my run.
Im curious if anyone else has had the same problem with t-4.

 

[roastdawg]

Ive also read that if you are not using T-4 you are wasting half your money. I cant explain it in scientific terms, but basically the process of converting t-4 to t-3 is a big part of making GH more effective. Also supposed to help, if not do away with lethargy.
I picked up some t-4 from MJR,so not pharm grade. Anyway it makes me feel like complete shit, now i don't know if pharm grade would be completely diff, i might give it a try but if it isn't then there is no way i can add it to my run.
Im curious if anyone else has had the same problem with t-4.

I've read that about t4 but then also read that supplementing t4 will not cause anymore t3 to be created. May make your labs look better from a tsh and t4/standpoint but wouldn't have any real world impact. The think there may have been a negative associated with t4 supplementation while on gh as well but I can't remember for sure. I've ran it without t4 since reading that and haven't noticed any difference.

 

[Mr.B66]

I've read that about t4 but then also read that supplementing t4 will not cause anymore t3 to be created. May make your labs look better from a tsh and t4/standpoint but wouldn't have any real world impact. The think there may have been a negative associated with t4 supplementation while on gh as well but I can't remember for sure. I've ran it without t4 since reading that and haven't noticed any difference.

Thanks for the response roastdawg, its good news to me cause there is no way in hell i can take t-4. Not only do i feel terrible physically, but it leaves me in a complete brain fog.
Whats your opinion on days per week? Would you go 7 strait days or would you pin 5on 2 off or 6 on ?

 

[roastdawg]

Thanks for the response roastdawg, its good news to me cause there is no way in hell i can take t-4. Not only do i feel terrible physically, but it leaves me in a complete brain fog.
Whats your opinion on days per week? Would you go 7 strait days or would you pin 5on 2 off or 6 on ?

I prefer eod doses or mwf with gh. That's based on a study done that showed little difference in benefit but a big difference in recovery from gh supplementation ed vs eod. As others have pointed out though the study was done on children with growth issues rather than trained adults so who knows?

 

[Mr.B66]

I prefer eod doses or mwf with gh. That's based on a study done that showed little difference in benefit but a big difference in recovery from gh supplementation ed vs eod. As others have pointed out though the study was done on children with growth issues rather than trained adults so who knows?

Ok so basically you take your weekly dose and divide it in 3 doses.
Interesting for sure.

 

[power36]

That is what I did for a very long time and felt it worked well. Took my weekly dose, divided by 3, pre workout IM shots M-W-F....guess I got lazy plus spoke to someone else who is much more well read than me and said that doing it ED SubQ either morning or night was fine, or if I was worried about something like receptor saturation (I am guessing at some concept he explained to me) then split it up into two smaller doses during day. But he was saying for HRT reasons it did not matter much whether IM or SubQ, ED, EOD, or the 5 day on 2 day off...that he felt like doing it ED same time SubQ is the wisest method. Wish I knew what was optimal, but no one is probably going to be doing GH research studies for performance reasons on athletes or relatively healthy adults.

 

[Mr.B66]

That is what I did for a very long time and felt it worked well. Took my weekly dose, divided by 3, pre workout IM shots M-W-F....guess I got lazy plus spoke to someone else who is much more well read than me and said that doing it ED SubQ either morning or night was fine, or if I was worried about something like receptor saturation (I am guessing at some concept he explained to me) then split it up into two smaller doses during day. But he was saying for HRT reasons it did not matter much whether IM or SubQ, ED, EOD, or the 5 day on 2 day off...that he felt like doing it ED same time SubQ is the wisest method. Wish I knew what was optimal, but no one is probably going to be doing GH research studies for performance reasons on athletes or relatively healthy adults.

Appreciate your info here, im really trying to figure out the safest most effective way to use GH so all the info i can get is very much appreciated.
Out of curiosity, when you stopped your GH treatment, did you feel that your natural GH was negatively effected ? And if so for how long?

 

[power36]

Appreciate your info here, im really trying to figure out the safest most effective way to use GH so all the info i can get is very much appreciated.
Out of curiosity, when you stopped your GH treatment, did you feel that your natural GH was negatively effected ? And if so for how long?

Yes, stopping for me was absolute hell. But remember I was on for many years, and for medical reasons. If people are younger than me, without medical conditions, and not taking it for years, maybe there is not as much as an effect when stopping. My labs indicate it indeed dropped my levels even further than levels prior to starting GH. So in my case it did suppress my already low levels.

I was trying to do it in a manner that did not shut me down, as on another forum there was a LONG thread on GH use and guys were saying if you did it EOD or E3D, IM or IV, that in theory it should not suppress you as much. That is why I did the IM pre workout M/W/F. After being off for a period I stabilized and did not feel like dog shit, but certainly not as good as while I was on. When I started up again is when another person from the same forum, someone highly respected and wicked smart, said for my purposes (HRT not BB), doing it SubQ ED 7 days a week was best way to do it, I just started back on that way. And within a few months feel like the results were good, lower BF without any change in diet or training, less pain in joints, injuries healing up, more energy, etc.

Ive read so much its hard to tell which is the "safest" way to do it, or what might be the most effective way to do it, and if those protocols would be one in the same. Guys like brutus79 who seem to have done extensive experimentation on themselves probably have a better idea than myself how to go about it.

 

[Mr.B66]

Yes, stopping for me was absolute hell. But remember I was on for many years, and for medical reasons. If people are younger than me, without medical conditions, and not taking it for years, maybe there is not as much as an effect when stopping. My labs indicate it indeed dropped my levels even further than levels prior to starting GH. So in my case it did suppress my already low levels.

I was trying to do it in a manner that did not shut me down, as on another forum there was a LONG thread on GH use and guys were saying if you did it EOD or E3D, IM or IV, that in theory it should not suppress you as much. That is why I did the IM pre workout M/W/F. After being off for a period I stabilized and did not feel like dog shit, but certainly not as good as while I was on. When I started up again is when another person from the same forum, someone highly respected and wicked smart, said for my purposes (HRT not BB), doing it SubQ ED 7 days a week was best way to do it, I just started back on that way. And within a few months feel like the results were good, lower BF without any change in diet or training, less pain in joints, injuries healing up, more energy, etc.

Ive read so much its hard to tell which is the "safest" way to do it, or what might be the most effective way to do it, and if those protocols would be one in the same. Guys like brutus79 who seem to have done extensive experimentation on themselves probably have a better idea than myself how to go about it.

I see, thanks for the info. Honestly now im wondering if its even worth it if upon stopping im gonna feel like shit, cause i dont plan on staying on for life. Maybe 6-8 months.
@brutus79 how did you feel when you came off? I dont recall you mentioning it in your log at the time.

 

[TheZMan]

Does it suppress your natural gh? I took it for contest prep, 2iu's first thing in the morning only so my natural gh could be released at night and I didn't really feel much of a difference coming off. I was taking 2ius for 3 months. I DID notice that I went hypoglycemic fairly quick if I didn't eat right away

Just to chime this one in and bring it back. Yes, it's possible to have a low grade buzzed head feeling the first few days to a week. HGH causes hyperglycemia when first injected, but resulting hypoglycemia from increased IGF-1. Some people could be sensitive to this bump in IGF 1 the first few days as I was, and my glucose was in the mid 70's. It went away with more carbs and time after like a week.

 

[Mr.B66]

Just to chime this one in and bring it back. Yes, it's possible to have a low grade buzzed head feeling the first few days to a week. HGH causes hyperglycemia when first injected, but resulting hypoglycemia from increased IGF-1. Some people could be sensitive to this bump in IGF 1 the first few days as I was, and my glucose was in the mid 70's. It went away with more carbs and time after like a week.

How long did you use GH and how often did you pin? Also how did you feel when you stopped?

 

[TheZMan]

Been on 1 month. 2IU/Daily - things are good! Looking to increase tolerance now and will slowly run from 2.0 => 2.5 IU =>3 => 3.5 then up to 4 I hope.

 

[TheZMan]

Also do 6 on 1 off. Just preference. 4am SQ inject with breakfast at 5:45. No T4 yet. I caught up on your thread. Not sure why you didn't feel great on the T4. Many of the guys say it's a staple, but I don't take it.

 

[Reporich]

I read t4 is supposed to help with the lethargy from HGH but I haven't noticed anything.

 

[Mr.B66]

The t-4 felt like a stimulant to me but not in a good way.