Autoclave

[Wunderpus]

Who uses one? If you do, would you recommend a particular brand?

Obviously not looking to start up a "lab", just looking to increase my overall sterility.

 

[AP17]

Once upon a time, I had the All American 75X. Definitely "kills" all possible germs/bacteria, etc. After usage, while pressure releases and you open it, the bottles will have condensation on and inside of them. So you have to transfer them to the oven to dry. If we want to get technical, the transfer from point A to point B can collect airborne matter. So after using this thing for a while, I traded it to a tattoo artist for some work. Then I moved on to Contrad 70. Originally used to clean beakers/cylinders etc. But figured I'd pre-wash vials with them, rinse with distilled water and bake. Worked great, but was a waste of money because that shit was expensive! Then after hours and hours of "sterilizing", I found the best way was to simply soak in some rubbing alcohol, rinse of with water, final rinse in distilled water "prevents spotting" and bake in oven. Autoclaves are wonderful, but a waste of time and money in my honest opinion. Good luck either way.

 

[BioChemBro]

Who uses one? If you do, would you recommend a particular brand?

Obviously not looking to start up a "lab", just looking to increase my overall sterility.

this might help: back when i worked in a university research lab, the building would have the pipes cleaned every summer meaning the autoclaves were down for that month.

our work around (besides going to another lab off campus) was to use pressure cookers, like the ones you get at walmart. it seemed ghetto, but we never had a contamination problem ever

 

[Wunderpus]

Once upon a time, I had the All American 75X. Definitely "kills" all possible germs/bacteria, etc. After usage, while pressure releases and you open it, the bottles will have condensation on and inside of them. So you have to transfer them to the oven to dry. If we want to get technical, the transfer from point A to point B can collect airborne matter. So after using this thing for a while, I traded it to a tattoo artist for some work. Then I moved on to Contrad 70. Originally used to clean beakers/cylinders etc. But figured I'd pre-wash vials with them, rinse with distilled water and bake. Worked great, but was a waste of money because that shit was expensive! Then after hours and hours of "sterilizing", I found the best way was to simply soak in some rubbing alcohol, rinse of with water, final rinse in distilled water "prevents spotting" and bake in oven. Autoclaves are wonderful, but a waste of time and money in my honest opinion. Good luck either way.

This makes a lot of sense to me. It seems like a large-ish (for at home standards) autoclave would be necessary to fit some of the glassware required.

Basically I only need to sterilize the media bottle that is collecting the oil post filter. A lot of friends recommend alcohol or acetone -> distilled/ro water (anyone know if you can use de-ionized, seems even better?) -> 500f oven for 1 hour or so. I realize this isn't PERFECT, but few home setups will be. I'm just looking for the safest option within reason.

 

[AP17]

The de-ionized water is a great question bro. It will be a more of a "pure" water than distilled. Next to no ions/minerals remain. But you still have to transfer the bottle from point A to point B. So there is ALWAYS the microscopic airborne particles that may lay to rest on the sterile vial. Again, to be honest, only reason I used distilled is because it left a spot free vial out of the oven.
As far as 500 degrees for an hour? That outta do the trick! lol.

But on a serious note, 300 will be sufficient. Most bad shit dies off at 120-300. The stuff that isn't killed by heat is killed by pressure - "autoclave". It really just depends on you and how much time and money you are willing to invest. Autoclave possibly overkill? Perhaps. However, it is the absolute best / only way to kill 100%. Just be very careful on the transfer to the oven. "not allowing vials to set out to collect airborne.

Sorry if rambling, but I love this shit!

 

[Wunderpus]

The de-ionized water is a great question bro. It will be a more of a "pure" water than distilled. Next to no ions/minerals remain. But you still have to transfer the bottle from point A to point B. So there is ALWAYS the microscopic airborne particles that may lay to rest on the sterile vial. Again, to be honest, only reason I used distilled is because it left a spot free vial out of the oven.
As far as 500 degrees for an hour? That outta do the trick! lol.

But on a serious note, 300 will be sufficient. Most bad shit dies off at 120-300. The stuff that isn't killed by heat is killed by pressure - "autoclave". It really just depends on you and how much time and money you are willing to invest. Autoclave possibly overkill? Perhaps. However, it is the absolute best / only way to kill 100%. Just be very careful on the transfer to the oven. "not allowing vials to set out to collect airborne.

Sorry if rambling, but I love this shit!

No, I appreciate it. For my purposes, small compared to most, I think the aforementioned process w/o the autoclave makes the most sense. I will buy pre-sterilized and sealed vials for ease.

 

[mghoward74]

You don't need an autoclave!!!

 

[Docd187123]

The de-ionized water is a great question bro. It will be a more of a "pure" water than distilled. Next to no ions/minerals remain. But you still have to transfer the bottle from point A to point B. So there is ALWAYS the microscopic airborne particles that may lay to rest on the sterile vial. Again, to be honest, only reason I used distilled is because it left a spot free vial out of the oven.
As far as 500 degrees for an hour? That outta do the trick! lol.

But on a serious note, 300 will be sufficient. Most bad shit dies off at 120-300.

You cannot make statements like these without context. 500deg at about 1hr will allow at minimum a 3-log reduction/destruction of pyrotoxins. 300deg will require at least 2-3x the length of time to get a similar reduction.

the stuff that isn't killed by heat is killed by pressure - "autoclave". It really just depends on you and how much time and money you are willing to invest. Autoclave possibly overkill? Perhaps. However, it is the absolute best / only way to kill 100%. Just be very careful on the transfer to the oven. "not allowing vials to set out to collect airborne.

Sorry if rambling, but I love this shit!

Incorrect. The pressure in an autoclave isn't what kills anything. The pressure allows for water to have a higher boiling point and steam or wet heat penetrates certain things better than dry heat.

 

[Wunderpus]

While I'm selfishly absorbing all of your knowledge, what do you think of using an mct like this - http://www.medical-and-lab-supplies.com/usp-oils/carrier-oils/mct-medium-chain-triglycerides-oil.html

I have used UGL gear that has MCT as the carrier and LOVED it... Is it more difficult to work with than GSO?

 

[Docd187123]

While I'm selfishly absorbing all of your knowledge, what do you think of using an mct like this - http://www.medical-and-lab-supplies.com/usp-oils/carrier-oils/mct-medium-chain-triglycerides-oil.html

I have used UGL gear that has MCT as the carrier and LOVED it... Is it more difficult to work with than GSO?

You can use any oil that's liquid at room temps. One possible point of concern is if an oil has a very low boiling or smoke points. You shouldn't need to apply much heat for most solutions but if you see smoke from the oil I would ditch the batch.

 

[Wunderpus]

You can use any oil that's liquid at room temps. One possible point of concern is if an oil has a very low boiling or smoke points. You shouldn't need to apply much heat for most solutions but if you see smoke from the oil I would ditch the batch.

That's a bit concerning... I do know MCT has a high smoke point, though.

The only time heat would be apply is during the stage where the raws are dissolved in solution, right?

 

[Docd187123]

That's a bit concerning... I do know MCT has a high smoke point, though.

The only time heat would be apply is during the stage where the raws are dissolved in solution, right?

Yea. Heat will increase solubility, speed up the dissolving process, and decrease viscosity. I apply asittle heat as possible to get the solution initially and then pour a little into the filter. Once I'm about to add more oil to be filtered I hear it up a bit again just to keep it warm. Makes filtering faster.

 

[Wunderpus]

Yea. Heat will increase solubility, speed up the dissolving process, and decrease viscosity. I apply asittle heat as possible to get the solution initially and then pour a little into the filter. Once I'm about to add more oil to be filtered I hear it up a bit again just to keep it warm. Makes filtering faster.

I was just going to put the beaker in a shallow dish of hot water to dissolve...

 

[AP17]

Actually Doc, I am going to disagree with you regarding the autoclave pressure and temp. Steam autoclaves do not go above 300 deg F for the sterilization process. With regards to killing bacteria, germs, etc, some of these can survive at temps as high as hot lava. It "IS" indeed the pressure mixed with the heat inside the autoclave that kills them.

 

[Docd187123]

Actually Doc, I am going to disagree with you regarding the autoclave pressure and temp. Steam autoclaves do not go above 300 deg F for the sterilization process. With regards to killing bacteria, germs, etc, some of these can survive at temps as high as hot lava. It "IS" indeed the pressure mixed with the heat inside the autoclave that kills them.

Disagreement is fine but I hope you have evidence to back up that statement.

Autoclaves do not need to go above 300deg bc they utilize wet heat as I stated earlier. Wet heat can better and faster penetrate certain compounds and substances which is why they don't need to go higher than 300deg. Dry heat takes longer in most cases to raise the temperature enough to sterilize.

Please look at the following from the Center of Disease Control:

The basic principle of steam sterilization, as accomplished in an autoclave, is to expose each item to direct steam contact at the required temperature and pressure for the specified time. Thus, there are four parameters of steam sterilization: steam, pressure, temperature, and time. The ideal steam for sterilization is dry saturated steam and entrained water (dryness fraction ≥97%)813, 819. Pressure serves as a means to obtain the high temperatures necessary to quickly kill microorganisms. Specific temperatures must be obtained to ensure the microbicidal activity. The two common steam-sterilizing temperatures are 121oC (250oF) and 132oC (270oF). These temperatures (and other high temperatures) 830 must be maintained for a minimal time to kill microorganisms

CDC - Disinfection & Sterilization Guideline:Sterilization - HICPAC

So I state again, the pressure is not what sterilizes. The pressure merely allows one to have superheated steam which is what sterilizes. Do you have any evidence to back up your statement?

 

[Wunderpus]

Disagreement is fine but I hope you have evidence to back up that statement.

Autoclaves do not need to go above 300deg bc they utilize wet heat as I stated earlier. Wet heat can better and faster penetrate certain compounds and substances which is why they don't need to go higher than 300deg. Dry heat takes longer in most cases to raise the temperature enough to sterilize.

Please look at the following from the Center of Disease Control:

The basic principle of steam sterilization, as accomplished in an autoclave, is to expose each item to direct steam contact at the required temperature and pressure for the specified time. Thus, there are four parameters of steam sterilization: steam, pressure, temperature, and time. The ideal steam for sterilization is dry saturated steam and entrained water (dryness fraction ≥97%)813, 819. Pressure serves as a means to obtain the high temperatures necessary to quickly kill microorganisms. Specific temperatures must be obtained to ensure the microbicidal activity. The two common steam-sterilizing temperatures are 121oC (250oF) and 132oC (270oF). These temperatures (and other high temperatures) 830 must be maintained for a minimal time to kill microorganisms

CDC - Disinfection & Sterilization Guideline:Sterilization - HICPAC

So I state again, the pressure is not what sterilizes. The pressure merely allows one to have superheated steam which is what sterilizes. Do you have any evidence to back up your statement?

I assume the 99% isopropyl alcohol is good for the pre bake soak?

 

[Docd187123]

I assume the 99% isopropyl alcohol is good for the pre bake soak?

I don't soak any glassware in alcohol. Let it soak in your glassware cleaner maybe but not alcohol.

 

[Wunderpus]

I don't soak any glassware in alcohol. Let it soak in your glassware cleaner maybe but not alcohol.

You let the heat do the work in the oven? I figured RO/DI or distilled water -> alcohol rinse -> oven is a good process.

 

[Wunderpus]

I feel like such an R-tard in the homebrewing world

There's so many conflicting opinions/steps out there, it's hard to put together a clean and concise method....!

 

[Docd187123]

You let the heat do the work in the oven? I figured RO/DI or distilled water -> alcohol rinse -> oven is a good process.

Clean with a cleaner or detergent which I still need to get you a pic of, rinse thoroughly with distilled or RO water, bake. No need for alcohol for glassware. The heat is what sterilizes in this application. Alcohol does not sterilize. Disinfect is not the same as sterilize.