[PharmaCom] Test E / Tren E / Dbol [1/5/2016]

[powerlifterfreak333]

Wanted to provide data on a PharmaCom cycle I began on 1/5/2016. Bloodwork is at the bottom of this post if you'd like to skip to that.

First "real" cycle. I'd previously run 3 weeks of Test Prop and Tren Ace (starting at 50mg ED and running 100mg of each the final week) into a powerlifting comp to "get my feet wet" last November,. Ran a 2 week PCT at 20mg Nolva a day and .25 Adex E3D and recovered quickly, unsurprisingly.

This cycle data:
Goal is to hit 240lb on the scale to fill out the 242lb weight class (I'm a powerlifter, not a bodybuilder)
Starting at BW 226
6'1"
Mirror says 12-15% BF range
Squat 410lb Bench 320lb Deadlift 600lb (competition lifts, raw)

Plan was:
250g Protein / 550g Carb / 100g fat ED
W 1-6 Test E 600mg a week w/ day 1 frontload 750mg
W 1-6 Tren E 400mg a week w/ day 1 frontload 500mg
W 7-8 Test P 70mg ED (keep levels up for full 8 weeks + have prop on hand)
W 7-8 Tren A 50mg ED (keep levels up for full 8 weeks + have ace on hand)
W 4-8 Dbol 30mg ED
W 1-8 Adex .5 EOD

I'm a month in and was having warning signs of gyno starting at the three week mark (4mm wide 2mm high lump under left nipple). Since I'd rather be very safe than sorry I dropped the Tren E to avoid prolactin issues on top of estrogen. I'm not going to argue that's necessary, I just wanted to simplify things. Upped adex to 1mg a day and threw in nolva 20mg a day, but the nolva was bunk (darknet source). Just got new stuff (Cem-Meso), throwing it in now at 30mg ED. Adex at 1mg has been fine, no joint issues or over-the-top dryness.

4 weeks in bodyweight is at 233.2 on waking up. Given the high adex dose I'm waking up very dry and tight, so there's not a ton of water weight involved in that 8.2lb increase. Bodyfat levels appear stable.

Upped daily food intake to 250g pro / 650g carb / 120g fat at week 3 mark.

Training 7 days a week, 3 heavy powerlifting days and 4 lighter bodybuilding days. Strength is climbing but not in any striking way.

Got bloodwork done on day 22 by labcorp via PrivateMdLabs when Gyno first popped up, before upping Adex dose (so, on 1.5mg adex per week). Numbers:

Testosterone, Total, LC/MS 1527 ng/dL
LH <0.2 mIU/mL
FSH <0.2 mIU/mL
Estradiol 100.7 pg/mL

So, 600mg pharmacom test a week = 1527ng/dL. My baseline test is 600-800, for reference.
.5 E3D Adex was not sufficient to control E2. I'll pull bloods in a week or so and see if 1mg a day is overkill.

 

[powerlifterfreak333]

Should add... training program is managed by a former world record holding powerlifter and nutrition is managed by an IFBB pro, both are on point. Drugs are just managed by me, thus the issues. Live and learn.

 

[powerlifterfreak333]

Got bloods pulled again on Day 31, Estrogen is now at 19.6 on 1mg of Pharmacom Adex a day. Compounds are just 600mg Pharmacom Test Enanthate per week. Tamox has caused no change in bump under left nipple, but there has been no change in size.

Food intake has increased and is now 250g protein / 700g carb / 150g fat and bodyweight is a (dry) 232 upon waking up.

 

[jaymaximus]

Im in for anything PL. Are you planning on logging workouts?

And you should go to new member section and introduce yourself properly

 

[lucabratzi]

That's a lot of carbs. What sources are you gettin them from?

Seems kinda low on the bloods. How many hours after pin did u take them?

I was in the 1500 range on half that dose from pharmacom. From frank or Darius?

 

[powerlifterfreak333]

Im in for anything PL. Are you planning on logging workouts?

And you should go to new member section and introduce yourself properly

Good point, I just did an intro in the new member section.

Hadn't planned on logging workouts as I guess I hadn't figured there'd be any interest. I'll throw the main lifts and structure in with weekly updates though in case people want to follow it.

That's a lot of carbs. What sources are you gettin them from?

Seems kinda low on the bloods. How many hours after pin did u take them?

I was in the 1500 range on half that dose from pharmacom. From frank or Darius?

We started at 250g pro / 550g carb / 100g fat and have worked up from there over the course of a month. Definitely 700g is high, but I was losing weight / recomping a tad on 650g so we bumped a bit. Preworkout is oats/honey/almond butter, intraworkout waxy maize, post workout apple juice, rice crackers and berries, meal 1 rice, meal 2 whole wheat pasta, meal 3 yams and meal 4 red potato.

Both times the bloodwork has been done 2 days after pinning. I'm pinning Monday and Thursday. So those numbers are lowest/worst case in a sense. Ordered from Frank.

 

[lucabratzi]

Good point, I just did an intro in the new member section.

Hadn't planned on logging workouts as I guess I hadn't figured there'd be any interest. I'll throw the main lifts and structure in with weekly updates though in case people want to follow it.



We started at 250g pro / 550g carb / 100g fat and have worked up from there over the course of a month. Definitely 700g is high, but I was losing weight / recomping a tad on 650g so we bumped a bit. Preworkout is oats/honey/almond butter, intraworkout waxy maize, post workout apple juice, rice crackers and berries, meal 1 rice, meal 2 whole wheat pasta, meal 3 yams and meal 4 red potato.

Both times the bloodwork has been done 2 days after pinning. I'm pinning Monday and Thursday. So those numbers are lowest/worst case in a sense. Ordered from Frank.

You're a lucky man to be able to lose weight on those cals. I turn fat if I go past like 300-350c similar fat and protein.

That's very surprising w your bloods. Wonder if it's because you're metabolizing it faster than me. I'm pretty sure I saw it on anabolicboard as being slightly overdosed.

 

[powerlifterfreak333]

You're a lucky man to be able to lose weight on those cals. I turn fat if I go past like 300-350c similar fat and protein.

That's very surprising w your bloods. Wonder if it's because you're metabolizing it faster than me. I'm pretty sure I saw it on anabolicboard as being slightly overdosed.

Bit of a double edged sword. It's a pain in the ass to eat and prep this much food.

FWIW, before this diet my diet was almost entirely protein. I'd eat 3-4 pounds of meat a day and maybe 200g carb. Fat from the meat, nothing additional. So my body is probably sensitive as hell to the carbs and primed to burn through em like nothing else. Plus my digestive system being able to process that much meat... well, processing 5lb of rice and pasta is pretty easy in comparison.

Training from last week:
Note, main training days are auto regulated based on speed, technique and RPE. So this is descriptive of what was done but it wasn't written down before hand.
Accessory lifts on main training days (squat, bench, deadlift day) are 5x10 and explosive.
All lifts on accessory days (shoulder, bicep, tricep and leg) are done bodybuilder style, following Ben Pakulski's style of maximal contraction.

Deadlift
8 singles at 76%
Block pulls (6" block) 4x5x76%, focusing on firing hips hard and keeping upper back locked in
Dimels 2x20x155lb+monster mini bands
Reverse hypers superset ab rollous

Leg accessory day
Close stance high bar squat 5x5x65%
Dumbbell split squat, Glute ham raise

Bench
9x3x82%
Close grip 5x10x63% of flat bench max
Dumbbell incline, pullups, upright rows

Shoulder
Seated DB OHP 5x10x60s (rebuilding ROM here)
Laterals in different angles 6x10
Rear laterals in different angles 6x10

Squat
7x4x80% (this is fucking tough)
Dumbbell split squat, reverse hypers and ab rollouts

Tricep
Dumbell bench press elbow tucked 5x8
Dips, rope pushdowns and incline skullcrushers

Bicep
Barbell curl, rope curl, dumbbell curl and preacher curl

 

[lucabratzi]

Bit of a double edged sword. It's a pain in the ass to eat and prep this much food.

FWIW, before this diet my diet was almost entirely protein. I'd eat 3-4 pounds of meat a day and maybe 200g carb. Fat from the meat, nothing additional. So my body is probably sensitive as hell to the carbs and primed to burn through em like nothing else. Plus my digestive system being able to process that much meat... well, processing 5lb of rice and pasta is pretty easy in comparison.

Training from last week:
Note, main training days are auto regulated based on speed, technique and RPE. So this is descriptive of what was done but it wasn't written down before hand.
Accessory lifts on main training days (squat, bench, deadlift day) are 5x10 and explosive.
All lifts on accessory days (shoulder, bicep, tricep and leg) are done bodybuilder style, following Ben Pakulski's style of maximal contraction.

Deadlift
8 singles at 76%
Block pulls (6" block) 4x5x76%, focusing on firing hips hard and keeping upper back locked in
Dimels 2x20x155lb+monster mini bands
Reverse hypers superset ab rollous

Leg accessory day
Close stance high bar squat 5x5x65%
Dumbbell split squat, Glute ham raise

Bench
9x3x82%
Close grip 5x10x63% of flat bench max
Dumbbell incline, pullups, upright rows

Shoulder
Seated DB OHP 5x10x60s (rebuilding ROM here)
Laterals in different angles 6x10
Rear laterals in different angles 6x10

Squat
7x4x80% (this is fucking tough)
Dumbbell split squat, reverse hypers and ab rollouts

Tricep
Dumbell bench press elbow tucked 5x8
Dips, rope pushdowns and incline skullcrushers

Bicep
Barbell curl, rope curl, dumbbell curl and preacher curl

Gift and a curse. You can eat like a mad man but you also have to eat like a mad man and spend a lot more on food

 

[Perrin Aybara]

I'm always down for following a PL log. Training seems unconventional and I like seeing how various methods are set up and how they work. Keep us updated.

 

[jaymaximus]

We've got a few PLers here and more coming every day. If you log workouts there will be a lot of people interested (myself for one). And welcome to Meso

 

[powerlifterfreak333]

Stable on 1mg Adex a day and 600 Test E per week. Taking 30mg Dbol (some old UGL stuff I have sitting around so I won't assert the dose is accurate) as a preworkout because it just seems to work great as a preworkout for me.

Final shot of enanthate was today, will be starting 70mg Test Prop ED on Friday (5 days after Enanthate shot) for the final two weeks.

Scale weight is stable at 233 on 5100 calories a day (250 pro / 700 carb / 150 fat), so we'll likely increase that again this week. Even though weight is stable there's still noticeable recomposition week to week.

Training from last week:
Monday:
Bench 7x5x245. Focusing on rebuilding my patterning here and firing from the triceps first out of the hole since I have a bad habit of letting the elbows flare too early, so the weight is light.
Weighted dips 5x10x35 again, focusing on controlling the weight with the triceps
Pullups 5x10
Seated dumbbell cleans 4x20x15lb (prehab work for the shoulders)

Tuesday:
Seated dumbbell press 5x10x60lb. I've lose overhead range of motion so I'm just using these to rebuild that ROM - this weight isn't challenging. RPE 6-7 kind of thing.
DB laterals 6x15x25lb in 3 different positions - following Ben Pakulski's stuff here
DB rear laterals 6x15x25lb in 3 positions
Heavy DB laterals burn out sets 2x20->10x35

Wednesday:
Squat
7x4x355lb (belt and knee sleeves). This represents 7x4x80% of my raw max. Focus is on perfect execution.
DB Split squat 5x10x45lb. Using these to bring up the adductors which has had a huge impact on my squat and deadlift.
Reverse hypers 4x15x250lb superset ab wheel rollout 4x10

Thursday:
Spoto press 4x8x225. Again, tricep control work.
Bodyweight dips 5x10 slow/controlled
Incline skullcrushers 4x10x95 slow and controlled
Rope pushdown 6x15 in different positions

Friday
DB curl 6x15x25 Ben Pakulski style
Cable curl 4x10
Incline curl 4x10x25
Hammer curl burn outs 2x20x25

Sunday:
Work up to 600 single, then drop set 4x500, beltless 500 and 550
Dimel deadlift 3x5x405, 2x10x315
Reverse hyper 4x15x250 superset ab rollout 4x10

 

[jaymaximus]

Good stuff here.

 

[powerlifterfreak333]

Cumulative update:

For the last 3 weeks I've been at 5500 calories: 250g protein / 700g carb / 170g fat and gaining at a rate of about 1lb a week with no noticeable fat gain. All in all, I'm up about 10lb in 8 weeks. Since I've managed estrogen (if not tanked it a bit I think), I don't expect a great degree of water loss as I come off cycle.

I haven't noticed any strength increase above what I'd expect. I've been recovering a bit faster... but I've been eating a shit ton so that's not really unexpected. This is probably blasphemy, but I think either I just don't get strong androgenic effects from AAS, or have been doing this long enough that I'm kind of "past" the 30-pounds-on-bench-in-4-weeks type gains.

Gains seemed to have slowed last week so calories were upped to 6000: 300 / 750 / 200.

As I come off I'm running a quick two week PCT... I was considering not running one per advice from a number of prep coaches but since I have a metric f**kton of nolva I figured what the hell. Calories will stay at the 5500-6000 calorie mark and so I'll post in about a month how well the gains were kept. I'm pretty optimistic.

Only compound update was that two weeks ago I switched from long esters to short, running 70mg Prop and 30mg Tren Ace (to cut the Prop) ED. There weren't really any noticeable changes. I threw these in 5 days after the final enanthate shot. No real math there, just a gut feel that seemed reasonable.

I've but back training a tad since I was constantly fatigued, last few weeks have followed the below:

Bench
6x5x75%
Weighted dips 5x10, Rope upright rows 4x10

Bicep/Shoulder
YTWs 4x30 (10/10/10)
Shoulder press 4x12x60, Lateral giant set (different angles) 30 reps, Hammer curl 4x10, Curl 6x10, Preacher burnouts 3 sets

Squat
5x5x75%
DB Split squat 45lbs, Reverse Hyper 4x15x50% max squat, Ab rollout 5x10

Tricep
Incline bench 5x8x185
Dip 4x12xbodyweight slow/controlled, Incline dumbbell rollback 4x15

Deadlift
Triples alternative conventional and sumo with 3s eccentrics staying locked in... explode as soon as touching the ground 4 sets each conventional and sumo with 70%
Glute ham raise 5x10, Reverse Hyper 4x15x50% max squat, Ab rollout 5x10

Legs
5x8x265 high bar
DB Split squat 45lbs, Reverse Hyper 4x15x50% max squat, Ab rollout 5x10

 

[Perrin Aybara]

How much did your lifts go up from this cycle and was it your first?

 

[powerlifterfreak333]

How much did your lifts go up from this cycle and was it your first?

I hit some almost-maxes about a week ago: 487 squat (knee wraps) / 330 bench / 605 deadlift which theoretically represent a 14, 10, and 5 pound PR. I'd previously run 3 two week on two week off mini-cycles last November.

 

[Perrin Aybara]

I just realized it was only an eight week cycle, have you considered going 12-16 weeks? I just did my first at 16 weeks and I didn't feel like it got good until around weeks 7-8.