Endurance Stack?

[vic_lagina]

Hi All,

I am a former triathlete that is now solely focused on marathons. I am currently training for the Marine Corps Marathon in October, 2016. I am at present a 3:30 PR on a flat fast course. I would like to improve on this time through training and the use of supplements.

My vitals are as follows:
Age: 51
Height: 6’0”
Weight: 168.8 lb
Body Fat: 8.18%
Diet: Clean with a lot of carbs for training purposes
Sleep: At least 8 hours but usually closer to 9
Training: 50+ miles per week depending on training period

What am looking for is supplementation that will 1. Increase my endurance via increased RBC count or other means and 2. Help with post run soreness/recovery. I have no interest in gaining mass, lean or otherwise.

I have done extensive research and would like others to chime in, especially those with real world experience. My research has led me to a few things that I am considering.
1. Clen and T3 do stay lean through a carb based diet
2. Taurine for cramping
3. Andriol to aid in recovery
4. Sustanon 250 125mg every week to maintain testosterone level
5. Equipoise 200mg every week to increase RBC production
6. HgH 2iu to aid in recovery and muscle breakdown due to high mileage

I cannot do EPO as I have no way to check my crit on a regular basis. I am also wondering if GW-501516 would be of any benefit.

Thanks for reading and I look forward to the responses.

Vic

 

[Dr JIM]

- At your age the use of either Clen or T3-4 is probably not a wise choice UNLESS you have had a full cardiac eval.

- No precycle labs BAD IDEA again esp at your age

- You NEED labs fella like a baseline, Hct, thyroid fct and TT, LH levels

- Finally the use of AAS generally DECREASES AEROBIC performance

good luck

 

[D-Ballin]

This is for an untested event right?

I'd run low dose test and equipoise for what you're doing. Not sustanon though, I'd go cyp or enanthate. No need for you to be pinning EOD for a simple recovery stack. Your dosage looks fine apart from that. And no need for andriol on top of that.

After your bloodwork, of course.

 

[caveman72]

I,agree with dballin
do test a regular dose 250 to 500
I switched to undecanate but test is test.no need for oral test. I'm on equipoise so its coming with hands on telling you from experience. it will help with rbc.being high so you may heal faster.but all of them raise rbc. I myself know that runners love winstrol. I before. workouts take winstrol and anavar oral a concoction of my own.
I'm stronger, more stamina as well.hard to stop me 2 hours after digested.
now they say winstrol can make tendons drier and subsequently brittle.
but I also drink lots of water and take NPP. for this reason. but its a push pull with aas. take this for this and take that because of that and so on.
don't over do youre A.I. exemastane or arimedex
if you take that can dry you out to much.
I do know that msm. helps and that other one that's mixed with it will help keep you lubrication going.
I'm not trying to bore anyone but I am 43 I ride a bike daily to work and I believe if anavar and winstrol at the rite dose 50 mg winstrol 20 mg.anavar it's a hell of a preworkout or prerun 2 hours before take it with small meal.
I haven't had injury yet
I however am on nandrolone year round and Just made switch from nandrolone to equipoise 2 months ago I love nandrolone but it is a more of a gamble with estrogen and prolonged use can make heart grow more than test or equipoise. anyway goodluck to you and hope I helped.
but I gave us all something to read

 

[caveman72]

the doctor is rite it does decrease stamina in aerobics. but as I said before.
winstrol and anavar together.
lots of water.
u take them both as a pre run only or pre work out.
as I do 50 mg.winstrol 20mg anavar daily

 

[Big_paul]

That is done the old fashion way brother, that means cardio and intense workouts.

 

[vic_lagina]

This is for an untested event right?

I'd run low dose test and equipoise for what you're doing. Not sustanon though, I'd go cyp or enanthate. No need for you to be pinning EOD for a simple recovery stack. Your dosage looks fine apart from that. And no need for andriol on top of that.

After your bloodwork, of course.

This is for an untested event right?

I'd run low dose test and equipoise for what you're doing. Not sustanon though, I'd go cyp or enanthate. No need for you to be pinning EOD for a simple recovery stack. Your dosage looks fine apart from that. And no need for andriol on top of that.

After your bloodwork, of course.

D-Ballin,
Thanks for the good input. I will be getting labs drawn before starting and in the middle of any supplement usage. It seems like the wise thing to do.

When you say "cyp" I assume that you mean Test Cyp, correct?

Thanks for the valuable advice. Getting info from people in the trenches already means a lot to me.

Vic

 

[vic_lagina]

I,agree with dballin
do test a regular dose 250 to 500
I switched to undecanate but test is test.no need for oral test. I'm on equipoise so its coming with hands on telling you from experience. it will help with rbc.being high so you may heal faster.but all of them raise rbc. I myself know that runners love winstrol. I before. workouts take winstrol and anavar oral a concoction of my own.
I'm stronger, more stamina as well.hard to stop me 2 hours after digested.
now they say winstrol can make tendons drier and subsequently brittle.
but I also drink lots of water and take NPP. for this reason. but its a push pull with aas. take this for this and take that because of that and so on.
don't over do youre A.I. exemastane or arimedex
if you take that can dry you out to much.
I do know that msm. helps and that other one that's mixed with it will help keep you lubrication going.
I'm not trying to bore anyone but I am 43 I ride a bike daily to work and I believe if anavar and winstrol at the rite dose 50 mg winstrol 20 mg.anavar it's a hell of a preworkout or prerun 2 hours before take it with small meal.
I haven't had injury yet
I however am on nandrolone year round and Just made switch from nandrolone to equipoise 2 months ago I love nandrolone but it is a more of a gamble with estrogen and prolonged use can make heart grow more than test or equipoise. anyway goodluck to you and hope I helped.
but I gave us all something to read

Caveman72,
Thanks for the valuable input! I never considered Winstrol because I thought, incorrectly, that is for for hardcore bodybuilding only. Great idea and I will consider it.

Vic

 

[vic_lagina]

That is done the old fashion way brother, that means cardio and intense workouts.

I have that part covered!

 

[D-Ballin]

D-Ballin,
Thanks for the good input. I will be getting labs drawn before starting and in the middle of any supplement usage. It seems like the wise thing to do.

When you say "cyp" I assume that you mean Test Cyp, correct?

Thanks for the valuable advice. Getting info from people in the trenches already means a lot to me.

Vic

Yes sir. Test cyp or enanthate. Sustanon is kind of a mess of half lives, and requires more frequent injection to get the most out of it. It also tends to have a lot of bite to it, from what I have heard. That's more trouble than it's worth for an endurance athlete IMO.

 

[D-Ballin]

That is done the old fashion way brother, that means cardio and intense workouts.

Truth, but endurance athletes take a beating to the system, even more than we do. That shit can actually drop your test levels from being so hard on the body. AI monotherapy is sometimes used, sometimes andriol caps. But if he's not being tested, and at his age, he might as well hit the gold standard for endurance/recovery.

 

[vic_lagina]

Yes sir. Test cyp or enanthate. Sustanon is kind of a mess of half lives, and requires more frequent injection to get the most out of it. It also tends to have a lot of bite to it, from what I have heard. That's more trouble than it's worth for an endurance athlete IMO.

Agreed, thanks again for clearing that up for this newbie.

 

[vic_lagina]

Truth, but endurance athletes take a beating to the system, even more than we do. That shit can actually drop your test levels from being so hard on the body. AI monotherapy is sometimes used, sometimes andriol caps. But if he's not being tested, and at his age, he might as well hit the gold standard for endurance/recovery.

And that is all I want really, I am not being tested and at 51 I need every advantage I can get guys!

 

[vic_lagina]

Final question guys.What are the thoughts on GW-501506 (Endurabol)? I feel like I might benefit from an additional fat burner, maybe to get my body fat from 8.18 down to maybe 5 something. I have heard great things about this drug as a fat burner.

 

[D-Ballin]

Can't help you there man.

Try searching or starting a thread in the peptides/gh sub forum, so that it gets a few more views. Peps are a path less traveled, and less predictable on results than AAS. But there's some knowledgeable guys in there who could direct you better.

 

[Bob Dole]

@vic_lagina

I am building a cycle for the same reasons, here is my input.

• I have and plan to use Test E again and would use that in the place of the sus.
• I used EQ my last cycle and I did notice improvements, but it dried my joints and tendons big time. At this point, I am not planning on using it on my next cycle.
• I am going to run NPP 200 mg's per week via two injections, to eliminate the pain in my joints.
• Going to take Telmisartan tablets: 80 mg per day.
  
• Going to take GW-501516: 20 mg per day via gelatin capsules.
  
• HCG twice a week.
• OTC Cordyceps tablets: 600 mg per day.

I would also suggest researching Meldonium: 500 mg per day. I also understand you not wanting to use EPO, its dangerous and risky. I ran it once and I won't lie I ran up a down a mountain on it way faster than I typically would, but that shit can kill you even when you know what you are doing, so steering clear of it is smart.

 

[vic_lagina]

@vic_lagina

I am building a cycle for the same reasons, here is my input.

• I have and plan to use Test E again and would use that in the place of the sus.
• I used EQ my last cycle and I did notice improvements, but it dried my joints and tendons big time. At this point, I am not planning on using it on my next cycle.
• I am going to run NPP 200 mg's per week via two injections, to eliminate the pain in my joints.
• Going to take Telmisartan tablets: 80 mg per day.
  
• Going to take GW-501516: 20 mg per day via gelatin capsules.
  
• HCG twice a week.
• OTC Cordyceps tablets: 600 mg per day.

I would also suggest researching Meldonium: 500 mg per day. I also understand you not wanting to use EPO, its dangerous and risky. I ran it once and I won't lie I ran up a down a mountain on it way faster than I typically would, but that shit can kill you even when you know what you are doing, so steering clear of it is smart.

Thanks for the input Bob. Looks like you have a great plan/ I will research it and see if I can't do something similar.

Vic

 

[RodgerThat]

@vic_lagina

I am building a cycle for the same reasons, here is my input.

• I have and plan to use Test E again and would use that in the place of the sus.
• I used EQ my last cycle and I did notice improvements, but it dried my joints and tendons big time. At this point, I am not planning on using it on my next cycle.
• I am going to run NPP 200 mg's per week via two injections, to eliminate the pain in my joints.
• Going to take Telmisartan tablets: 80 mg per day.
  
• Going to take GW-501516: 20 mg per day via gelatin capsules.
  
• HCG twice a week.
• OTC Cordyceps tablets: 600 mg per day.

I would also suggest researching Meldonium: 500 mg per day. I also understand you not wanting to use EPO, its dangerous and risky. I ran it once and I won't lie I ran up a down a mountain on it way faster than I typically would, but that shit can kill you even when you know what you are doing, so steering clear of it is smart.

fairly certain EQ did not dry out your joints and tendons as it has a cologen synthesis effect to aid in repairing joints and tendons...

OP
It's been stated but low dose test 150-200mg ew tops preferably 150 and EQ 300-500 tops. Deca or NPP wouldn't be best in this situation. Anavar at 20-30mg helps as well 10mg 3 hours before run and 10-20mg 45mins before run if it's your long run of the week and 1.5 hours before if it's a recovery run or shorter run. Ephidrine at 8mg can help marginally as well. Everything else that's been stated I don't have the backround to help you with. I have done tons of research on the subject as an ex ironman triathlete as well

 

[brutus79]

Um... I feel like I am in the twilight zone. Eq enhances collagen synthesis? News to me.

Look op- this is a great board with people among which have a vast collective knowledge. That being said- apparently not about what you are asking. With all due respect nobody in this thread runs marathons. How they would have the first clue about what would help is beyond me- it sounds like guessing. Don't get me wrong- people want to help. You brought a piss poor idea to the table and they gave you what they thought was a less shitty idea.

You know nothing of what you need- except you want to take drugs without doing the necessary labs to ensure a. That you need drugs for your "edge" and b. You can handle them without having a massive heart attack.

You said nothing of any injuries unless I missed it. Want some? Start pinning immediately. Taking test? You will gain weight. Hgh? Weight gain. Eq? Blood will get thicker- and guess what? Your bp will go up. Mine SKYROCKETS on even low dose npp. It will also go higher from the test, and from hgh! Yay! Your knees are gonna love you with some extra weight on you, no? I'm not so sure they will either. Do you even have low t? Have you ever taken hcg? Ugh. And throwing ai's in the mix- yikes.

This sounds like a horrible idea. I see literally no upside and a thousand things that can go wrong. Maybe try your plan over the course of the year- short runs, monthly bloods. Figure out how your body reacts to the water retention in a marathon situation. In a non marathon situation.

In my opinion the health risks are great and you are using a sledgehammer to make a birdhouse. I would maybe run 3iu's hgh every day and that's it Man. Listen to the doctor- not a bunch of Internet strangers offering anecdotal experience and advice.

 

[Bob Dole]

fairly certain EQ did not dry out your joints and tendons as it has a collagen synthesis effect to aid in repairing joints and tendons...

I have read that as well, but for me it made me really brittle, my research on the internet has shown that this is a very common side effect for some. Vic is over 45 like me and can't risk the chances that EQ will have this adverse effect on him, at least in my opinion. The gain in RBC's is not worth it. He would be way better off with a combo of Telmisartan and gw-501516. I really don't know much about anavar, but I think he would get better results with Meldonium. I agree that an ECA stack could be decent, but I have never run it during events and only during off-season training. Its worked so much better for me than clen/t3 did.