MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Push/Pull/Legs Routine
- Thread starter Longboy
- Start date
1 and 2 please
Big and lean for me, too. Above all strong though.
weighted chinup
Member
High frequency is the ticket for bodybuilding. It's no coincidence more coaches are moving towards this approach.
What are your thoughts on Steve shaws methodology if you are familiar
weighted chinup
Member
I believe I saw an article he wrote for a 4 day program fairly recently.
I am actually a big fan of relying on total tonnage requirements for each lift rather than strictly going for a set number of reps in each set. I believe I saw a program by him that used a similar system, where you simply aim for total number of reps for each lift and do the sets needed to achieve that (within reason).
It's a very good way of handling loading, it really is.
I know you asked a couple times about 4 day programs, I never got back to you, so I apologize for that. I did make an experimental routine in Perrins thread that is 4 days. I believe you might have seen that.
I think a periodized upper/lower setup done 4x a week with rest in between each session for recovery is how I would handle that if a lifter doesn't want ED/EOD frequency for each muscle group. If they want to experiment with higher frequency then I would do what I did on that experimental routine I wrote in Perrins thread, one day has easier 'main' movements then the previous but that particular day also uses high intensity techniques on isolation movements and accessories.
I'd like to implement RPE into a program at some point, I believe it is a perfect fit for bodybuilding purposes when frequency of muscles worked is approaching the 3x a week point (with 5-6 training sessions being done a week).
I will say though high frequency requires a great deal of pragmatism from the lifter to be effective. They need to know when to hold back. If they can do that competently, then they will be successful.
bigpoppachump
New Member
You got that feedback by being respectful and open to what people had to say. We have been on a murderous trend of asswhipes coming on here lately and asking questions in a blunt entitled manner and then when the answers they get dont conform with what they wanna here they go on a tirade and start shitting all over the place and troll a bunch of threads until they leave. This forum has way more to offer than just gear talk all you gotta do is just listen and be respectful, it's really all we ask. New guys like you who follow these simple requirements are going the way of the dinosaurs lol
Well said. I think it was yesterday some dude posted a similar question and then insulted the first person trying to help and then it was downhill from there. I actually love discussing this stuff and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Have you read the RTS Manual or spent much time on their forum? A lot of smart people over there and they apply RPE to all kinds of programs. The way they calculate their weekly fatigue percentages reminds me a lot of that INOL you were using on your program, too.
@8 or @9 with repeats would be your volume sets. @10 with a load drop would be good for the high intensity sets, not so much on compound movements though. Rep drops I never cared for, felt too much like not getting my reps on later sets.
I agree on having to know when to hold back. My first experience on RPE I actually regressed on squat and deadlift. Made progress on bench, but I assume it's just easier to recover from max effort bench than it is the other two. I was hitting too many @10's instead of @9's chasing PRs and with the frequency involved it really burnt me out. My coach had me using RPE during my meet prep and I had a much better experience this time knowing what I know now.
Knowing when to hold back is hard at first, especially if you're used to going all out every session and/or chasing PRs. As you get more advanced progress and PRs aren't happening weekly or even monthly anymore, you really have to get your ego out of the way and look at the bigger picture. This is what it takes, every session isn't going to be exciting. Most will be unremarkable, but equally important.
I massively appreciate you taking the time to say that mate as I was a bit apprehensive at first regarding the thread. You guys have made me feel more than welcome n I look forward to learning here in the future.
It makes sense what your saying about holding back for high frequency, 2 really good pull sessions per week has got to be better than 1 max effort surely. Quicker recovery, more training and time under tension. I think teaching myself to stop going in and smashing it will be the hardest part but I'm going to give it a go. I'm sure once I see better gains it will all fall into place.
P.s you guys will need update me on some of these abbreviations haha
It makes sense what your saying about holding back for high frequency, 2 really good pull sessions per week has got to be better than 1 max effort surely. Quicker recovery, more training and time under tension. I think teaching myself to stop going in and smashing it will be the hardest part but I'm going to give it a go. I'm sure once I see better gains it will all fall into place.
P.s you guys will need update me on some of these abbreviations haha
RodgerThat
New Member
RTS= reactive training system
RPE= rate of perceived exertion
Also training yourself to not go hard everytime is the best thing you can ever do for your training, too many people think they need to be crippled by the gym to consider it a good workout.
If you look at it from a perspective of total volume per week this approach will make more sense. Your total volume (within a certain range of your max) is going to be what drives your strength and hypertrophy.
First, here's what RPE stands for. Rate of Perceived Effort. Here's a chart.
Let's use bench as an example. On your once per week going all out day it'll look something like this.
Warm-up
225x10 RPE 10 aka max effort
225x8 RPE 10
225x5 RPE 10
225x3 RPE 10
Total weekly volume: 5850lbs
Or
Warm-up
225x10 RPE 10
250x5 RPE 10
275x3 RPE 10
300x1 RPE 10
Total weekly volume: 4525lbs
On a twice weekly like we've described it would look like this:
Day one, higher reps:
Warm-up
225x8 RPE 8 aka 2 reps in the tank
225x8 RPE 8
225x8 RPE 8.5 aka maybe 2 reps left
225x8 RPE 9 aka 1 rep in the tank
Total volume: 7200
Day two, lower reps:
Warm-up
250x5 RPE 8
250x5 RPE 8
250x5 RPE 8.5
250x5 RPE 8.5
250x5 RPE 9
Total volume: 6250lbs
Weekly volume: 13,450lbs
Just a made up example obviously, but you can see how the volume adds up and can be deceptive since you stop short of failure on each set allowing a lot more total reps at the desired intensity. The amount of work done will be far greater though. I hope that all makes sense.
INOL stands for Intensity and Number of Lifts. I'm not as well versed in this method. WC could explain it a lot better than I could. I'm more familiar with the RTS (Reactive Training Systems) method of using RPE and fatigue percentages. It's more for powerlifting though, so you don't need to worry about it unless you're coming over to the dark side (which of course I always recommend, lol). Although like WC was saying RPE could be used for bodybuilding purposes as well.
And glad to help, this is my passion and I love helping those that want to learn.
Edit: RT beat me to some abbreviations while I was typing my novel, lol. I just spent over an hour fixing a vehicle at work and it won't fire up, I'm hanging out here awhile while I decide my next move.
First, here's what RPE stands for. Rate of Perceived Effort. Here's a chart.
Let's use bench as an example. On your once per week going all out day it'll look something like this.
Warm-up
225x10 RPE 10 aka max effort
225x8 RPE 10
225x5 RPE 10
225x3 RPE 10
Total weekly volume: 5850lbs
Or
Warm-up
225x10 RPE 10
250x5 RPE 10
275x3 RPE 10
300x1 RPE 10
Total weekly volume: 4525lbs
On a twice weekly like we've described it would look like this:
Day one, higher reps:
Warm-up
225x8 RPE 8 aka 2 reps in the tank
225x8 RPE 8
225x8 RPE 8.5 aka maybe 2 reps left
225x8 RPE 9 aka 1 rep in the tank
Total volume: 7200
Day two, lower reps:
Warm-up
250x5 RPE 8
250x5 RPE 8
250x5 RPE 8.5
250x5 RPE 8.5
250x5 RPE 9
Total volume: 6250lbs
Weekly volume: 13,450lbs
Just a made up example obviously, but you can see how the volume adds up and can be deceptive since you stop short of failure on each set allowing a lot more total reps at the desired intensity. The amount of work done will be far greater though. I hope that all makes sense.
INOL stands for Intensity and Number of Lifts. I'm not as well versed in this method. WC could explain it a lot better than I could. I'm more familiar with the RTS (Reactive Training Systems) method of using RPE and fatigue percentages. It's more for powerlifting though, so you don't need to worry about it unless you're coming over to the dark side (which of course I always recommend, lol). Although like WC was saying RPE could be used for bodybuilding purposes as well.
And glad to help, this is my passion and I love helping those that want to learn.
Edit: RT beat me to some abbreviations while I was typing my novel, lol. I just spent over an hour fixing a vehicle at work and it won't fire up, I'm hanging out here awhile while I decide my next move.
I was looking around the gym earlier and 90% of males were doing exactly this and tbf it's all I've ever known. I feel one step ahead now after reading Perrin's example. I can't wait to form a plan on paper and get stuck in.
What's got me is the whole RPE thing... for example Perrin has put on day 2 5 sets 5 five all with different RPE's but if my RPE is measured by how many reps I've got left should I not go with how my body feels with regards to number of reps?
Chin up Perrin, I work in the motor trade too haha
Yeah, by how your body feels. On my example the RPE changes each set because you get a little more fatigued. Like the first couple sets of 5 you for sure had 2 left (RPE 8), but as you went on and fatigue set in on the third and fourth set you only MAYBE had 2 reps left (RPE 8.5) and then on the last set you only had one rep left (RPE 9). I hope that explains it better.
I've got you. So it's all about finding the weight that fits the reps and RPE.
Hope you managed to fix the car mate.
The bro science is strong in gyms. They all do things they think have been done since the time before time and there's no other way except that way. Like you said 90% do the same things. How many of those 90% look like they lift or put up decent weight? 5%? Less than that at my gym, but most are content to look the same month after month and lift the same weight month after month. Not me, I want to understand the how and why of all this and achieve great things.
Also, thanks. I'm hoping it's just a battery issue. Someone has run off with my tester and I get off in thirty minutes, so I'm just going to charge it overnight and hope for the best. Just put a new computer in and if that wasn't the problem I just made a costly error buying the new one.
Also, thanks. I'm hoping it's just a battery issue. Someone has run off with my tester and I get off in thirty minutes, so I'm just going to charge it overnight and hope for the best. Just put a new computer in and if that wasn't the problem I just made a costly error buying the new one.
Haha you'd get the bullet for that at my work! Hope it works out bud.
Your right though, I've seen people stuck in the same routines for over a year. Some people are happy with just turning up though and that's fair to them but I'm certainly not one of them. If your gonna do something do it right eh?
Your right though, I've seen people stuck in the same routines for over a year. Some people are happy with just turning up though and that's fair to them but I'm certainly not one of them. If your gonna do something do it right eh?
