Intro, Background, Questions

[JHands]

Greetings. Long time lurker, first time poster. I'm 30 years old and currently around 5'11 200 lbs, active lifestyle in and out of the gym. I was diagnosed with low T at 28 years old when I was going through a rough bout of depression. Prior to prescribing SSRI's, my GP wanted to check my hormone levels. Sure enough, my T was around 200. I worked through my issues and made some changes in my life to alleviate the depression, but my low T still prevailed. Loss of interest in sex, low mood, exhausted in the gym, etc.

I am an extremely educated healthcare provider, working alongside urologists on a daily basis. One of my colleagues suggested I try cycling 25mg Clomid per day for a while to see how I felt. After a few weeks, I felt noticeably better. Morning wood returned, levels shot up to around 800-900. Slowly, however, the effects wore off. I'm currently on my second cycle of Clomid and again, the effects are wearing off. I've also noticed that although the Clomid brings my T levels up, I still can't lose the stubborn mid section fat regardless of what I do. I am speculating that its because my E levels are rising alongside the T, but don't have current labs to back this up.

I have the stereotypical active lifestyle low T build. Pretty well defined shoulders, upper back, arms, solid legs, but flabby mid section. This seems to be hardwired into my genetic code, as my father and all of his brothers have always exhibited this same build.

The reason I'm here is for guidance. I'm not necessarily looking to get huge, but I wouldn't mind a little extra size. I don't pay much attention to the scale as much as I do what I look like in the mirror. I am thinking about running gear to elevate my T levels, while keeping my E levels suppressed to promote an anabolic state conducive to burning fat. I had my BF checked with calipers in 9 different locations, and I averaged out to be 13% BF. This seems low to me based on my build, but the provider that was checking me advised me its not uncommon for a reading like that on someone in my situation because all of my fat is centered in my mid section and the caliper readings are coming from multiple locations other than the mid section.

I have two vials of 250mg/ML cyp, and enough aromasin for one cycle. I have an ongoing prescription for Clomid for PCT.

Considering my positive response to clomid (although it wears off over time), will it be enough for PCT or should I seek out additional assistance for restarting my HPTA?

I'm aware that even at 250 mg of cyp per week, I will be shutting down my testicles. Should I run HCG with this cycle to attempt to avoid testicular atrophy and potential damage? Kids aren't really in the plans right now, but I would like to retain the ability to have them because it seems as if responsible, educated humans NEED to reproduce to offset the amount of idiots out there today (Sorry, can't resist a stab at modern day society).

If I run 250mg a week, alongside armoasin, is it feasible to expect some muscle gains/fat loss with proper nutrition during a 10-12 week cycle? I eat properly now, but no changes occur. It's as if my fat loss is constantly being blocked. I'll spare you the details of my diet, but I can assure you I know how to calculate macro breakdowns etc. as I did some local amateur board shorts competitions when I lived in Florida a few years back and had no problems prepping and sticking to a rigid diet.

My lady and I are swingers - what kind of sexual side effects should I expect with elevated T, but restricted E? I am aware that test alone is not responsible for libido, but a combination of test and estrogen is.

What would the best way to avoid gyno be?

I have a full head of glorious hair which looks stellar flowing out the bottom of my hockey helmet, how do I avoid losing my best physical attribute? LMAO

Any advice, commentary, criticism is appreciated.

Thanks gents, and well met.

James

 

[Maktub]

If your regular T is at 200mg then you should look for TRT route .

Have you tried hcg & clomid combo ?

I'm pretty sure trt members will stop by and share some knowledge .

 

[JHands]

If your regular T is at 200mg then you should look for TRT route .

Have you tried hcg & clomid combo ?

I'm pretty sure trt members will stop by and share some knowledge .

I like the idea of going the TRT route, but I really want to create a hormonal state in my body to promote muscle gain and fat loss, to get rid of this spare tire around my waist. Everyone here knows that excess mid section fat contributed to waning T levels, and that it's extremely difficult to lose if your levels are low. It's a self feeding vicious circle.

Ideally, I'd like to run a cycle or two to get back into good health, then go the TRT route. During my bout with clinical depression, regardless of cause, I packed on 25 lbs. I've lost a little bit of it, but have hit a wall. I'm trying to break through that wall.

 

[Maktub]

I'm pretty sure 250 mg x week will put you around 1300-1900 tops.(just a random guess)
Enought to see a difference in your body.
But yeah like you said you need to dial diet pretty stric .

 

[Sk8man101]

Welcome to Meso.
If you do this cycle your natty levels will drop close to nonexistent.
Question #1: I would say you will likely not recover to where you want to be with just the clomid, but considering you went up to the 7-800 I guess I'd be wrong and it worked well for you. Still I would pick up some nolva.
You would be candidate for TRT but that is a lifetime decision. Honestly I don't know if cycling is really gunna be an option for you cause your levels are so naturally low but stranger things have happened I'm sure.
Question #2: While on test cyp you will be fucking like a champ no problem. Many users will experience atrophy though. HCG can combat this.
Question #3: To avoid gyno there are a couple options, controlling e2 with Adex or aromasin is the best, but you can also run nolva 10-20mg alongside your cycle to prevent your receptors from causing gyno. Letro is usually reserved for reversing gyno or if your e2 gets seriously out of control and you want to drop it fast.
Bloodwork will help you dial these things in.

I am far from most knowledgable member on this board I'm just trying to help out. All the info you need is right here on this forum though.

 

[Sk8man101]

You asked about hair loss.
Hair Loss Here is the thread.
If you still have great flowing hair you may not be prone to hair loss. It is all genetic. If hair loss is your consern I'd stay away from masteron, superdrol, and really high doses of test over a gram/week.

 

[Sk8man101]

I'm pretty sure 250 mg x week will put you around 1300-1900 tops.(just a random guess)
Enought to see a difference in your body.
But yeah like you said you need to dial diet pretty stric .

Good advice here^ 250 is just above a cruise dose. Not enough to be worth shutting yourself down unless you plan to trt the rest of your life.

 

[JHands]

Good advice here^ 250 is just above a cruise dose. Not enough to be worth shutting yourself down unless you plan to trt the rest of your life.

I understand the risk of shut down, and I also understand the risk of not being able to rebound if you don't cycle off. I'm wondering what the likelihood of permanent shutdown would be at 250 a week for 10-12 weeks? I don't want to be reliant on injections forever. The supplier of my gear (trusted healthcare colleague and close friend) is saying that I should have no issues with getting my testicles to produce my natural, albeit low, amount after a 10-12 week cycle.

Is it true that high T and low E2 levels are ideal for anabolism and fat loss (diet dependent of course)

My goals differ slightly than most of you gents, but I'm hoping this thread catches someone's attention that's been down this road which is somewhere between TRT and bodybuilding.

 

[Test_Subject]

If you're sitting at 200 test, I'd just hop on TRT. Forget PCT and that nonsense. Even if you do recover fully after PCT, you're going to "recover" back to your low test levels and be back to the same problem that you have now.

Taking injections every week may not sound appealing, but consider the alternative. I'd talk to an endocrinologist about your options, anyhow.

To answer your other question, if you're going to take 250mg you may as well, in my opinion, do 500mg. If you're going to shut yourself down, you might as well make it worthwhile. 500mg at a caloric deficit will preserve and even build muscle while you lose the stubborn midsection fat with cardio and core work.

 

[JHands]

If you're sitting at 200 test, I'd just hop on TRT. Forget PCT and that nonsense. Even if you do recover fully after PCT, you're going to "recover" back to your low test levels and be back to the same problem that you have now.

Taking injections every week may not sound appealing, but consider the alternative. I'd talk to an endocrinologist about your options, anyhow.

To answer your other question, if you're going to take 250mg you may as well, in my opinion, do 500mg. If you're going to shut yourself down, you might as well make it worthwhile. 500mg at a caloric deficit will preserve and even build muscle while you lose the stubborn midsection fat with cardio and core work.

I'm trying to retain my ability to reproduce, while not being reliant on injections forever.

 

[Sk8man101]

I'm trying to retain my ability to reproduce, while not being reliant on injections forever.

I don't think you fully understand how this works.
You need to read more on your own. Your trusted friend may have your best interest, but he may not be as knowledgable as you think.
In my humble novice opinion, a 250mg cycle will be pointless. It will shut you down, give you little in the way of gains. And they will leave as soon as you come off because of your naturally low levels.
Stop using the word "risk" op. You said you "understand the risk of shut down". No. It is a garentee that giving your body synthetic test will shut you down.
The BEST case scenario is you will eventually recover back to your already low test levels after you lose all your gains and feel like shit threw pct.

 

[Sk8man101]

Is it true that high T and low E2 levels are ideal for anabolism and fat loss (diet dependent of course)

This question tells me you need to read more. The high t part is obvious. Higher t=more muscle growth.
But you don't want your e2 to be 'low' you want it to be normal or even a little high. E2 does a lot for your body including muscle growth.

 

[Sk8man101]

My goals differ slightly than most of you gents, but I'm hoping this thread catches someone's attention that's been down this road which is somewhere between TRT and bodybuilding.

How do you know it hasn't already?
What you don't like the advice that's been given so your just waiting for someone to tell you something you want to hear?
Maybe your questions are so surface level the more experienced users don't feel like spoon feeding today.
(I know I sound like a dick, I really don't mean to be)

 

[XKawN]

At first I was gonna comment on you and the lady being swingers and try and get picks, but now I just want some picks of that hair blowing in the wind.

 

[w1ck3d]

At first I was gonna comment on you and the lady being swingers and try and get picks, but now I just want some picks of that hair blowing in the wind.

That hair thing cracked me the fuck up as well

 

[JHands]

That hair thing cracked me the fuck up as well

I try to mix a little humor into everything.