TRT - blood work results on 75mg Test Cyp, E3D

[KeithO]

Double-quoting here - after reading the Scally interview - which is really good btw.
I inject on Sunday morning and Wednesday afternoon. I always test at noon on Friday. That is halfway between injections so should be pretty representative of the norm for me. IOW, neither a peak nor a trough.
Scally also said that "peak serum levels occur in 2–5 days after injection" which I interpret as my blood work results reflect a peak read more than a trough.

Since I do E3D, the frequency is probably optimal for Test C - so perhaps I could drop to 60mg E3D anyway.

 

[KeithO]

I inject on Sunday morning and Wednesday afternoon and I test at noon on Friday. I've seen graphic representation that shows injecting in this manner delivers pretty stable levels so I'm not sure my testing is either showing a peak or a trough.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

I inject on Sunday morning and Wednesday afternoon and I test at noon on Friday. I've seen graphic representation that shows injecting in this manner delivers pretty stable levels so I'm not sure my testing is either showing a peak or a trough.

I've followed that testing in the past (actually meant to do it this time too) and that's supposed to give you peak. But after reading Scally's comments, I'm not so sure.

 

[KeithO]

I've followed that testing in the past (actually meant to do it this time too) and that's supposed to give you peak. But after reading Scally's comments, I'm not so sure.

I don't think anyone is sure. I'd love a definitive answer as I just got my most recent labs back.
My TT was 1255 and my FT was 194.5.
I inject 40 mg of T cyp twice weekly, so a pretty low dose to have such high numbers.

 

[Docd187123]

Thanks Scally.

Trough at 700 seems about right, 1,000 doesn't seem that crazy though for a peak.

700 is the higher end so I would guess a good peak to be around 800ish give or take. It also depends on the age and synptoms. An older guy would preferably want lower-ish levels bc other markers become a greater concern with age but you also want to alleviate symptoms as well. It's a balancing act.

Someone run down this idea of trough and peak levels. If I inject cyp every 3.5 days and I run labs halfway between injections am I seeing peak or trough? I was under the impression that injecting twice weekly really reduced the peaks and valleys.

Your trough will be just before your next injection regardless of the pinning frequency. Your pinning frequency will affect how high the peaks are and low the troughs are but not the time they come. Peak levels are roughly 2-3day after injecting test e or cyp

 

[Docd187123]

Valid point - I'd probably see 1,200 or so if I'd done the blood work a day earlier, would you agree?

That Alpha-Pharma stuff appears to be indistinguishable from pharma grade, so I'll dial it down to 60mg E3D - from 75mg E3D - that should bring the peak below 1,000. (It's from Batch # TCX1401 in case anyone's interested. I'm on my last vial from that batch but I have several from #TBX15001.)

My diet is pretty clean - obviously nothing like BB contest prep clean - but I eat no junk, and my carbs are quality carbs. I eat with a heavy bias toward protein, slow fibers, and dark greens - with a varied intake of nuts and so-called superfoods too. So the likelihood of the test driving the LDL is likely. Before I started on TRT (3 or so years ago) my LDL and HDL were pretty much too low - I had borderline too little cholesterol, not good either. My diet hasn't changed that much since - other than eating more now since I'm heavier.

My RBC has always been high - I've given blood in several countries since I was around 22 years old. And unlike the retarded RC here in the US, in the other countries (Japan for example) they give you detailed results. The RC really should be forced to provide this to donors as well (forced because they have a de facto monopoly). I have hemochromatosis running in the family, but I've been tested for that and it's not the issue in my case. And I donated 500ml when I was in Thailand around Halloween - looks like I need to do it again.

I recently had a coronary CAT scan - showing 0% plaque buildup - so I don't know if LDL is really something I should be concerned with?

Maybe not 1200. I was thinking 65hrs is longer than it is lol. That's less than 3 days where it'll peak around that time or a bit earlier. Maybe. 1050ish would be my guess.

 

[Docd187123]

Now, are those numbers based on the sweet spot from a performance/sides tradeoff calculation - or more based on a "if I recommend this level I won't lose any lawsuits" consideration? The latter is always at the back of my mind when I talk with medical professionals, they (and rightly so) are always quite concerned with lawsuits. As well as losing their prescription rights and/or license I guess?

IMO, they are based on alleviation of symptoms and reducing sides and not on lawsuits.

 

[KeithO]

700 is the higher end so I would guess a good peak to be around 800ish give or take. It also depends on the age and synptoms. An older guy would preferably want lower-ish levels bc other markers become a greater concern with age but you also want to alleviate symptoms as well. It's a balancing act.



Your trough will be just before your next injection regardless of the pinning frequency. Your pinning frequency will affect how high the peaks are and low the troughs are but not the time they come. Peak levels are roughly 2-3day after injecting test e or cyp

So either way, my levels are too high. I was prescribed 200mg/week! I've been steadily reducing the dose and am now at 80mg/week. I guess I'll decrease the dose AGAIN and re-test in a couple months.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

So either way, my levels are too high. I was prescribed 200mg/week! I've been steadily reducing the dose and am now at 80mg/week. I guess I'll decrease the dose AGAIN and re-test in a couple months.

80mg per week sounds VERY low - have you actually done bloodwork at (or near) that level? If you haven't, I'd keep running the 40mg twice per week and test using that amount.

 

[Just Fish]

It is nice to see people with intelligent self prescribed Trt dosages posting bloods. It seems the consensus here is that you need at least 200mg per week for TRT smh. I personally do 90mg every 5 days with pharmacom test e. Like you my levels have been in upper range consistently. I think the problem is that a lot of people here confuse Trt with cruising.

 

[Just Fish]

I don't think anyone is sure. I'd love a definitive answer as I just got my most recent labs back.
My TT was 1255 and my FT was 194.5.
I inject 40 mg of T cyp twice weekly, so a pretty low dose to have such high numbers.

Considering the half life of test c with the 2x per week dosing schedule even if do bloods right before next pin your levels should be pretty consistent. Your trough is considered taking bloods the day of pin. With a 2x per week schedule there is really not much of a trough if any. Even every 5 days like I do it there is a very minimal trough. Everyone is different though as far as how fast they metabolize compounds

 

[KeithO]

Considering the half life of test c with the 2x per week dosing schedule even if do bloods right before next pin your levels should be pretty consistent. Your trough is considered taking bloods the day of pin. With a 2x per week schedule there is really not much of a trough if any. Even every 5 days like I do it there is a very minimal trough. Everyone is different though as far as how fast they metabolize compounds

My E2 was lower than I was expecting this time. It was 13. I've been taking 0.75mg of adex/week. So I need to figure out a new dose for the adex as well. If I reduce my T cyp to 70mg/week that will slightly reduce my E2, but I'll still need to lower the adex dose. I think I'll try 0.5mg

 

[tenpoundsleft]

It is nice to see people with intelligent self prescribed Trt dosages posting bloods. It seems the consensus here is that you need at least 200mg per week for TRT smh. I personally do 90mg every 5 days with pharmacom test e. Like you my levels have been in upper range consistently. I think the problem is that a lot of people here confuse Trt with cruising.

I think you mean at most 200mg per week for TRT - right? Then we're on the same page.

With friends (planning DIY TRT) who've asked me, I recommend starting out at 60mg 2x per week - do bloods and then adjust. Unless you're an outlier, or have underdosed gear, I think that'll get you pretty close.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

My E2 was lower than I was expecting this time. It was 13. I've been taking 0.75mg of adex/week. So I need to figure out a new dose for the adex as well. If I reduce my T cyp to 70mg/week that will slightly reduce my E2, but I'll still need to lower the adex dose. I think I'll try 0.5mg

I take Anastrazole (the Alpha-Pharma version) but only 0.25mg E3D - and that kept my Estradiol at 33.7 which I think is pretty optimal - I'd rather be toward the high end than risk being too low.

I split my 1mg pills in quarters. Try twice per week - I think the half-life of Adex is around 50 hours so that evens things out better.

 

[Just Fish]

My E2 was lower than I was expecting this time. It was 13. I've been taking 0.75mg of adex/week. So I need to figure out a new dose for the adex as well. If I reduce my T cyp to 70mg/week that will slightly reduce my E2, but I'll still need to lower the adex dose. I think I'll try 0.5mg

I don't take any adex at my dosage. If you need adex you are either over weight or your test dosage is too high.

 

[Just Fish]

I think you mean at most 200mg per week for TRT - right? Then we're on the same page.

With friends (planning DIY TRT) who've asked me, I recommend starting out at 60mg 2x per week - do bloods and then adjust. Unless you're an outlier, or have underdosed gear, I think that'll get you pretty close.

No, I've had people try clowning me saying my dose is nothing and you need at least 200mg per week. Most of them haven't a clue about Trt. They just take 200mg a week no bloodwork or anything because that's the dose their bro uses to keep his gains smh.

 

[KeithO]

I don't take any adex at my dosage. If you need adex you are either over weight or your test dosage is too high.[/QUOT

I take Anastrazole (the Alpha-Pharma version) but only 0.25mg E3D - and that kept my Estradiol at 33.7 which I think is pretty optimal - I'd rather be toward the high end than risk being too low.

I split my 1mg pills in quarters. Try twice per week - I think the half-life of Adex is around 50 hours so that evens things out better.

I feel best with my E2 around 25

 

[Just Fish]

If you need it to keep in range go for it. That's my opinion on AI'S for Trt. Maybe as I get older things will change

 

[tenpoundsleft]

I don't take any adex at my dosage. If you need adex you are either over weight or your test dosage is too high.

Well, there's truth to that - but I've been told by the TRT doc that some people aromatize Test a lot more than others, so I think it might be up to each individual to find their right balance?

To your point about too much test - this is why I'm drawn to non-aromatizing compounds such as Tren. I think I aromatize too much, around 400mg per week the sides get substantial. With Tren instead and with Test at TRT level, I'm in much better shape.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

No, I've had people try clowning me saying my dose is nothing and you need at least 200mg per week. Most of them haven't a clue about Trt. They just take 200mg a week no bloodwork or anything because that's the dose their bro uses to keep his gains smh.

Oh, so that was a sarcastic statement about at least 200mg per week - I missed that.