Big boy cycle with protocol

[Gottapintowin]

I will be starting this when I come back from Thailand in 12 weeks but just wanted to show everyone the protocol, cycle and nutrition. So this is my off-season cycle.

Trying to not consume as much carbs through the start of the day so I don't spike my insulin levels so I can try and keep my growth hormone levels high for fat loss, while the other half of the day I'm focusing on smashing as many carbs and protein to try and feed my muscle and grow.

1-12 test e 1500mg
1-12 deca 1000mg
1-18 eq 750mg
1-5 anadrol 100mg Ed
6-10 dbol 50mg Ed
12-18 test e 1000mg
12-18 tren a 700mg

Hgh 12ius 5/2
Slin pre workout 6-10 iu And 8-12 iu post workout
T3 25-62.5 mcg 4 weeks on 2 weeks off

Cardio three times a week
Train 5 times a week


Diet with Gh and insulin protocol


Upon waking 4iu of hgh 25-62.5mcg t3


Meal 1 - (1 hour after injection)250g Coconut yogurt, scoop of whey, 20g peanut butter


Meal 2 - half Avo, 2 cans of tuna


Meal 3 - half Avo, 150g chicken, 30g cashews


Meal 4 - 150g chicken, 250 rice


Meal 5 (pre) - 150g rice, banana and 20g honey 1 hour pre workout. 15 mins pre workout 6-10iu of novorapid followed by 10g of dextrose per iu of slin, 50g protein, BCAA's, creatine and glutamine.


Intra workout - 5g dextrose/iu with a serve of eaas, creatine.


Meal 6 post workout - 8iu of hgh intramuscular. 30mins later 8-10iu of novorapid with 10g dextrose/iu with 10g bcaas, 5g creatine and 10g glutamine


Meal 7 - 150g kanga rissoles, 350g sweet potato

 

[MCFC]

Just curious on your Cycle history cause those are some pretty hefty numbers lol. Why so much test and deca? Do you compete?

 

[Gottapintowin]

Just curious on your Cycle history cause those are some pretty hefty numbers lol. Why so much test and deca? Do you compete?

Doing Arnold's o100kg next year buddy I've never done anything this high but i called it a big boy cycle for a reason trying to put some mass in this year so I can come in good condition next year

 

[Gottapintowin]

@Wunderpus @mands

 

[wedorecover]

Just my opinion for what ever it’s worth i think you could get the same results with less gear more isn’t always better

 

[Gottapintowin]

Just my opinion for what ever it’s worth i think you could get the same results with less gear more isn’t always better

You're right more isn't always better! but if I've never tried higher doses and stick to low doses how am I ever going to know that this won't or will work better?

 

[wedorecover]

You're right more isn't always better! but if I've never tried higher doses and stick to low doses how am I ever going to know that this won't or will work better?

Just trying to keep u safe man maybe find that happy medium you tagged some good dudes that have more experience then me they should have some good input for ya .... and I’m at lest glad to see it’s for a show and not just to pull some bitches lol

 

[Wunderpus]

I like this as a concept, so I'll help in any way I can....

I would take out the cardio, as I think it's counterproductive in a mass gaining phase, even what some people call a "lean bulk." The changes should be dietary, not in cardio, if you're putting on too much fat. Try to stay in a 10-15% (max 15%) caloric surplus on your training days, and lower to maintenance (or so) calories on non-training days. This would be the day to incorporate a BIT of cardio if you're doing it for health reasons, not fat loss.

You could try doing what I'm doing where you increase your test dose by Xmg's/week every month to counteract some of the myostatin and allow yourself to KEEP pushing all cycle long. As an example, start at 750mg's/week test enan. Month two bump to 1000mg's/week. Lastly month 3 you can slam it to 1500mg's/week (maybe do the "upping pins" a week before that month so they "hit" for that month). I'm not trying to over complicate this, but, I don't think you're too worried about that based on the level of detail you seem to have already put in this...

I'd cut the T3 completely, counterproductive.

If the goal of the tren and test at the end is to cut/harden up, I would lower the test to 500mg's/week and add either winstrol or masteron.

8iu of GH at one time is a lot, and may not be totally utilized. I would prefer to split to dose, personally. I never pin more than 4iu/injection. But, if this is how you need to structure your plan, it's fine.

Not a fan of BCAAs in general, I would just use EAAs, especially pre, post and intra workout. Add your glutamine and creatine too (5g of each, ideally 3 hours pre training and 5g post training). Make sure your leucine intake is high, it's fundamental with this sort of process.

 

[Gottapintowin]

I like this as a concept, so I'll help in any way I can....

I would take out the cardio, as I think it's counterproductive in a mass gaining phase, even what some people call a "lean bulk." The changes should be dietary, not in cardio, if you're putting on too much fat. Try to stay in a 10-15% (max 15%) caloric surplus on your training days, and lower to maintenance (or so) calories on non-training days. This would be the day to incorporate a BIT of cardio if you're doing it for health reasons, not fat loss.

You could try doing what I'm doing where you increase your test dose by Xmg's/week every month to counteract some of the myostatin and allow yourself to KEEP pushing all cycle long. As an example, start at 750mg's/week test enan. Month two bump to 1000mg's/week. Lastly month 3 you can slam it to 1500mg's/week (maybe do the "upping pins" a week before that month so they "hit" for that month). I'm not trying to over complicate this, but, I don't think you're too worried about that based on the level of detail you seem to have already put in this...

I'd cut the T3 completely, counterproductive.

If the goal of the tren and test at the end is to cut/harden up, I would lower the test to 500mg's/week and add either winstrol or masteron.

8iu of GH at one time is a lot, and may not be totally utilized. I would prefer to split to dose, personally. I never pin more than 4iu/injection. But, if this is how you need to structure your plan, it's fine.

Not a fan of BCAAs in general, I would just use EAAs, especially pre, post and intra workout. Add your glutamine and creatine too (5g of each, ideally 3 hours pre training and 5g post training). Make sure your leucine intake is high, it's fundamental with this sort of process.

Sitting at 13.2% now but gonna get down to about 8-10% before I start so I can be as insulin sensitive as possible since this cycle I will be utilising insulin and hgh as much as possible.
Cardio is just for health and wellbeing I like going for walks or jogs in the morning, but will just do cardio on rest days. Only adding bcaas because I have unflavoured ones which I can just add to my shakes which definitely can't hurt not going to say it's gonna make me get huge but it can definitely help recover quicker when shuttled into the muscles using insulin. The reason for switching to tren is to continue bulking not harden (but will still probs get hard as fuck! ) but wanted to switch compound so I can shock the body and use something else. And how does this sound?

1-6 test e 1000mg
1-6 deca 600mg
6-12 test e 1500mg
6-12 deca 1000mg
1-18 eq 750mg
1-5 anadrol work up to 150mg Ed
6-10 dbol 50mg Ed
12-18 test e 1000mg
12-18 tren a 700mg


Hgh 10ius Ed (dropped dosage because doing Ed instead of 5/2)

Slin pre workout 6-10iu preworkout And 8-14iu post workout

T3 20-40mcg 4 weeks on 2 weeks off (for a nutrient partitioning agent and enhanced protein synthesis which means I'll be able to metabolise protein much faster) also it is very synergistic with gh and insulin.

20mins cardio on rest day (walking)
Train 5 times a week

Diet with Gh and insulin protocol


Upon waking 3iu of hgh and 20-40mcg t3


Meal 1 - (1 hour after injection)250g Coconut yogurt, scoop of whey, 20g peanut butter


Meal 2 - half Avo, 2 cans of tuna


Meal 3 - half Avo, 150g chicken, 30g cashews and 3iu of hgh


Meal 4 - 150g chicken, 250 rice and soy sauce . 30mins after take 4iu of novorapid followed by Eaas with 5g glutamine, 5g creatine 40g dextrose


Meal 5 (pre) - 150g rice, banana and 20g honey 1 hour pre workout. 15 mins pre workout 6-10 iu of novorapid followed by 10g of dextrose per iu of slin, 50g protein, BCAA's, creatine and glutamine.


Intra workout - 5g dextrose/iu with a serve of eaas


Meal 6 post workout - 4iu of hgh intramuscular 15 mins before end of session 15 mins post workout 8-14iu of novorapid with 10g dextrose/iu with 10g bcaas, 5g creatine and 10g glutamine


Meal 7 - 150g kanga rissoles, 350g sweet potato

 

[Wunderpus]

Only adding bcaas because I have unflavoured ones which I can just add to my shakes which definitely can't hurt not going to say it's gonna make me get huge but it can definitely help recover quicker when shuttled into the muscles using insulin

- This is a huge misconception. BCAAs are anti-catabolic, not anabolic. EAAs build muscle. Replace with EAAs.

Cycle looks good, 150mg's of anadrol is probably overkill.

We can keep going in circles about T3, it's not a nutrient partitioning agent, nor is it synergistic with insulin. Go ahead and keep it if you want, but I see no reason to suppress your thyroid....

I also would prefer to shoot my hGH pre workout, to each their own I suppose.

 

[CrispyRockClimber]

I'd suggest utilizing the BCAAs before morning runs/fasted cardio. And maybe space out the Anadrol and Dbol a few weeks and run the Dbol with the Tren.? Just throwing some ideas out.

 

[Skull]

- This is a huge misconception. BCAAs are anti-catabolic, not anabolic. EAAs build muscle. Replace with EAAs.

Interesting brother. Now ya got me researching an found this semi-helpful when it comes to BCAA's vs EAA's



What is the difference between BCAA's (Branched Chain Amino Acids) and EAA's (Essential Amino Acids)? And which one is better to take?
This is really a trick question because the three BCAA’s (Leucine, Isoleucine, and Valine) are also three of the eight EAA's. So all BCAA's are EAA's, but not all EAA's are BCAA's.

Here's a list of the eight Essential Amino Acids:

Methionine
Lysine
Phenylalanine
Threonine
Tryptophan
Leucine (Branched Chain)
Isoleucine (Branched Chain)
Valine (Branched Chain)

Leucine, Isoleucine and Valine are called "branched chain" because unlike all the other amino acids, their physical structure is branched.

For example, here's a simple diagram of Leucine:

So if branch chain products are missing five of the eight essential amino acids the human body requires for strength and recovery, why would anyone take them?

Marketing!

Because the three BCAA’s are the most important for energy production and muscle metabolism, they were heavily promoted to the bodybuilding industry and they simply caught on. And taking a BCAA product can be beneficial.

But using only the three BCAA’s it is a lot like fielding a baseball team with only a shortstop, pitcher, and catcher. They may very well be the three most important positions, but you certainly can’t expect to win any game without the rest of the team.

It's important to note that a high-quality, clinically-proven EAA formula such as Core 4 Nutrition's http://core4nutrition.com/content/fundaminos contains 50% BCAA's and 50% of the other five, essential amino acids.

So it's a win-win!

Here is a quick refresher on why an EAA blend should be part of everyone’s nutritional support program.

Essential Amino Acids (EAA’s) are called "essential" because the body cannot make them; they must be obtained from food and/or supplement sources. Many of us don't eat enough EAA-rich foods, and many more don't absorb or utilize them well. As we age, the body's ability to extract the maximum nutrients from any protein source decline; and the excess calories in this protein can be stored as fat.

While bodybuilders popularized the use of "branched" EAA’s for muscular growth and maintenance, anyone can benefit from their use! EAA’s stimulate the production of cellular energy and promote cellular repair. They initiate the creation of the critical enzymes necessary for healthy (and complete) digestion. They are especially important for those who cope with any form of physical or mental stress including intensive training, injury, or surgery.

Because the effects of EAA's have been well-studied, they offer several, scientifically-proven benefits. We know that:

EAA’s prevent muscular breakdown during periods of intense physical and mental stress.

EAA’s improve enhance and protect the mitochondria, our cells' energy factories.

EAA’s can curb hunger and improve metabolism.

For more information on essential amino acids, you can refer to these previous posts:

http://core4nutrition.com/blog/four-times-more-powerful-protein#.VT6A3CFViko
http://core4nutrition.com/blog/essential-amino-acids-your-muscular-rescue#.VT6BGyFViko

What's the key take home point?

Regardless of our age or level of athletic ability, we all need all the EAA’s to look, feel, and perform our very best. And FundAminos can help you get the job done!

So in other shorter words....Like WP uad already mentioned, EAA's for the win

 

[Wunderpus]

Interesting brother. Now ya got me researching an found this semi-helpful when it comes to BCAA's vs EAA's



What is the difference between BCAA's (Branched Chain Amino Acids) and EAA's (Essential Amino Acids)? And which one is better to take?
This is really a trick question because the three BCAA’s (Leucine, Isoleucine, and Valine) are also three of the eight EAA's. So all BCAA's are EAA's, but not all EAA's are BCAA's.

Here's a list of the eight Essential Amino Acids:

Methionine
Lysine
Phenylalanine
Threonine
Tryptophan
Leucine (Branched Chain)
Isoleucine (Branched Chain)
Valine (Branched Chain)

Leucine, Isoleucine and Valine are called "branched chain" because unlike all the other amino acids, their physical structure is branched.

For example, here's a simple diagram of Leucine:

So if branch chain products are missing five of the eight essential amino acids the human body requires for strength and recovery, why would anyone take them?

Marketing!

Because the three BCAA’s are the most important for energy production and muscle metabolism, they were heavily promoted to the bodybuilding industry and they simply caught on. And taking a BCAA product can be beneficial.

But using only the three BCAA’s it is a lot like fielding a baseball team with only a shortstop, pitcher, and catcher. They may very well be the three most important positions, but you certainly can’t expect to win any game without the rest of the team.

It's important to note that a high-quality, clinically-proven EAA formula such as Core 4 Nutrition's http://core4nutrition.com/content/fundaminos contains 50% BCAA's and 50% of the other five, essential amino acids.

So it's a win-win!

Here is a quick refresher on why an EAA blend should be part of everyone’s nutritional support program.

Essential Amino Acids (EAA’s) are called "essential" because the body cannot make them; they must be obtained from food and/or supplement sources. Many of us don't eat enough EAA-rich foods, and many more don't absorb or utilize them well. As we age, the body's ability to extract the maximum nutrients from any protein source decline; and the excess calories in this protein can be stored as fat.

While bodybuilders popularized the use of "branched" EAA’s for muscular growth and maintenance, anyone can benefit from their use! EAA’s stimulate the production of cellular energy and promote cellular repair. They initiate the creation of the critical enzymes necessary for healthy (and complete) digestion. They are especially important for those who cope with any form of physical or mental stress including intensive training, injury, or surgery.

Because the effects of EAA's have been well-studied, they offer several, scientifically-proven benefits. We know that:

EAA’s prevent muscular breakdown during periods of intense physical and mental stress.

EAA’s improve enhance and protect the mitochondria, our cells' energy factories.

EAA’s can curb hunger and improve metabolism.

For more information on essential amino acids, you can refer to these previous posts:

http://core4nutrition.com/blog/four-times-more-powerful-protein#.VT6A3CFViko
http://core4nutrition.com/blog/essential-amino-acids-your-muscular-rescue#.VT6BGyFViko

What's the key take home point?

Regardless of our age or level of athletic ability, we all need all the EAA’s to look, feel, and perform our very best. And FundAminos can help you get the job done!

So in other shorter words....Like WP uad already mentioned, EAA's for the win

My good buddy Skull, thank you for this.

The BIGGEST factor here are two pieces, "muscle protein breakdown (catabolism)" and "muscle protein synthesis (anabolism)". So, BCAAs prevent muscle protein breakdown, but do nothing for synthesis. EAAs are fundamental for synthesis, and also prevent breakdown. Now, when paired with carbs, the results get really cool...

"essential amino acids with carbohydrates stimulate muscle protein anabolism by increasing muscle protein synthesis when ingested 1 or 3 h after resistance exercise" - An oral essential amino acid-carbohydrate supplement enhances muscle protein anabolism after resistance exercise. - PubMed - NCBI

So, this brings us to the moral of the story, so to speak... Milos was right when he said never "lift on empty blood"... I believe in supplementing EAAs (plus glutamine and creatine, and possible a glucose disposal agent) pre, intra and post workout. I don't like to take protein without Leucine, as " findings indicate that dietary protein as well as EAA intake may be significant contributing factors in muscle hypertrophic response during RT" - Relationship between Dietary Protein or Essential Amino Acid Intake and Training-Induced Muscle Hypertrophy among Older Individuals. - PubMed - NCBI

My fingers are tired....

 

[Skull]

My good buddy Skull, thank you for this.

The BIGGEST factor here are two pieces, "muscle protein breakdown (catabolism)" and "muscle protein synthesis (anabolism)". So, BCAAs prevent muscle protein breakdown, but do nothing for synthesis. EAAs are fundamental for synthesis, and also prevent breakdown. Now, when paired with carbs, the results get really cool...

"essential amino acids with carbohydrates stimulate muscle protein anabolism by increasing muscle protein synthesis when ingested 1 or 3 h after resistance exercise" - An oral essential amino acid-carbohydrate supplement enhances muscle protein anabolism after resistance exercise. - PubMed - NCBI

So, this brings us to the moral of the story, so to speak... Milos was right when he said never "lift on empty blood"... I believe in supplementing EAAs (plus glutamine and creatine, and possible a glucose disposal agent) pre, intra and post workout. I don't like to take protein without Leucine, as " findings indicate that dietary protein as well as EAA intake may be significant contributing factors in muscle hypertrophic response during RT" - Relationship between Dietary Protein or Essential Amino Acid Intake and Training-Induced Muscle Hypertrophy among Older Individuals. - PubMed - NCBI

My fingers are tired....

These are the reasons why you are tye Man WP. Its Always a joy an pleasure to read your very knowledgeable, helpful, an easily understood posts my friend

 

[Gottapintowin]

S

My good buddy Skull, thank you for this.

The BIGGEST factor here are two pieces, "muscle protein breakdown (catabolism)" and "muscle protein synthesis (anabolism)". So, BCAAs prevent muscle protein breakdown, but do nothing for synthesis. EAAs are fundamental for synthesis, and also prevent breakdown. Now, when paired with carbs, the results get really cool...

"essential amino acids with carbohydrates stimulate muscle protein anabolism by increasing muscle protein synthesis when ingested 1 or 3 h after resistance exercise" - An oral essential amino acid-carbohydrate supplement enhances muscle protein anabolism after resistance exercise. - PubMed - NCBI

So, this brings us to the moral of the story, so to speak... Milos was right when he said never "lift on empty blood"... I believe in supplementing EAAs (plus glutamine and creatine, and possible a glucose disposal agent) pre, intra and post workout. I don't like to take protein without Leucine, as " findings indicate that dietary protein as well as EAA intake may be significant contributing factors in muscle hypertrophic response during RT" - Relationship between Dietary Protein or Essential Amino Acid Intake and Training-Induced Muscle Hypertrophy among Older Individuals. - PubMed - NCBI

My fingers are tired....

So basically just drop the bcaas and replace with eaas do you still think I should drink those eaas wth glutamine creatine and dextrose a few hours before training with slin and my meal like I've put? And is there a reason you put 25mcg of t3 in your bulk is your thyroid fried ? And do I have any benefit of running at low dose ? And I'll stick to 100mg anadrol ? And shoot the hgh pre like 1 hour pre with my rice and banana ? Will it still be in my system for my post slin shot because having them working together is what I'm aiming for ? And with the orals it sounds harsh but I was going to keep switching in between dbol and drol throughout the cycle ?

 

[Wunderpus]

So basically just drop the bcaas and replace with eaas do you still think I should drink those eaas wth glutamine creatine and dextrose a few hours before training with slin and my meal like I've put

Yeah bro, for sure. Do your glutamine, creatine and EEAs 2-3 hours pre... then EAAS & carbs intra... and carbs, EAAs, creatine and glutamine post

I took the T3 out, I never started it, more research indicated it was useless. We shall see, but so far, metabolism has been fine w/o it.... No need to add it unless needed. You create about 25mcg's of T3 daily, any less would be worthless, any more is potentially catabolic. I'd avoid it.

Gh 1 hour if sub-q, 30 minutes if IM. It will be "in your system" for quite some time, you'll be solid with that. You can always pin GH post, too, if you're about 3 hours between the two injections. However, I currently favor it all pre workout.

Keep in mind with the orals, they are harsh on your body, especially your liver and digestion. Two things that are FUNDAMENTAL to muscle growth. I'd suggest taking a break between them, no more than 4 weeks on, and AT LEAST 2 - ideally 3 - weeks off. Don't damage your liver, as, your IGF-1 production can be hindered (rendering that beloved GH useless at higher levels). And, digestion is pretty obvious why it's important.

 

[Gottapintowin]

Do you think doing the insulin with that meal is still gonna be beneficial ?
And so maybe anadrol 5 weeks in then 3 weeks off do dbol for 4 weeks then 3 weeks off then finish with some more anadrol as for 3-4 weeks ? Yeah might just do the 4 iu im 45 mins pre then insulin 15 mins pre ? And If I feel like I need it I will add maybe 30mcg of t3 ? And do you think that's to much oral use ?

Yeah bro, for sure. Do your glutamine, creatine and EEAs 2-3 hours pre... then EAAS & carbs intra... and carbs, EAAs, creatine and glutamine post

I took the T3 out, I never started it, more research indicated it was useless. We shall see, but so far, metabolism has been fine w/o it.... No need to add it unless needed. You create about 25mcg's of T3 daily, any less would be worthless, any more is potentially catabolic. I'd avoid it.

Gh 1 hour if sub-q, 30 minutes if IM. It will be "in your system" for quite some time, you'll be solid with that. You can always pin GH post, too, if you're about 3 hours between the two injections. However, I currently favor it all pre workout.

Keep in mind with the orals, they are harsh on your body, especially your liver and digestion. Two things that are FUNDAMENTAL to muscle growth. I'd suggest taking a break between them, no more than 4 weeks on, and AT LEAST 2 - ideally 3 - weeks off. Don't damage your liver, as, your IGF-1 production can be hindered (rendering that beloved GH useless at higher levels). And, digestion is pretty obvious why it's important.

 

[Wunderpus]

I would try to keep the insulin's peak around your lift, so, probably not.

30 minutes between the GH shot and insulin pin is pretty standard pre workout.

I always limit oral use where possible...

 

[Gottapintowin]

I would try to keep the insulin's peak around your lift, so, probably not.

30 minutes between the GH shot and insulin pin is pretty standard pre workout.

I always limit oral use where possible...

Alright sweet as well I might do 4 weeks in 4 weeks off with the orals and what about Lantau can you see that being useful ?

 

[Wunderpus]

Alright sweet as well I might do 4 weeks in 4 weeks off with the orals and what about Lantau can you see that being useful ?

Probably not, you're better off using fast insulin pre and post