Total Estrogen

[Wacker]

Looking for some knowledge on total estrogen vs e2, I recently had bloods drawn for my annual check up not from my trt doc and he only checked total T and total estrogen. So before everyone shoots me for not having a detailed report which I will get from my endo in a few weeks I still think I have a issue. I asked him to test because I was getting some sides and wanted to see if there was a issue before I wen to trt doc.
Cycle has been:
250mgs test c once a week
100mgs tren a/mast eod
600mgs eq a wk
AI-Nolva 20mgs a day
Aroma-25mgs eod
Caber 1mg 2 times a week (pharm)
When I started the cycle I used letro too from the same vendor but dropped to the protocol above which has worked for me for years.
OK so here it is:
Total T over 1500
Total Estrogen 14,103 (that is not a type error)

I know tren and eq may skew the results and I don't have the detail of the E2 but how the hell can my total estrogen be over 14,000???? Completely bunk AIs? I don't know but have never had my results come back like this even on high test.

 

[Sven_Northman]

Looking for some knowledge on total estrogen vs e2, I recently had bloods drawn for my annual check up not from my trt doc and he only checked total T and total estrogen. So before everyone shoots me for not having a detailed report which I will get from my endo in a few weeks I still think I have a issue. I asked him to test because I was getting some sides and wanted to see if there was a issue before I wen to trt doc.
Cycle has been:
250mgs test c once a week
100mgs tren a/mast eod
600mgs eq a wk
AI-Nolva 20mgs a day
Aroma-25mgs eod
Caber 1mg 2 times a week (pharm)
When I started the cycle I used letro too from the same vendor but dropped to the protocol above which has worked for me for years.
OK so here it is:
Total T over 1500
Total Estrogen 14,103 (that is not a type error)

I know tren and eq may skew the results and I don't have the detail of the E2 but how the hell can my total estrogen be over 14,000???? Completely bunk AIs? I don't know but have never had my results come back like this even on high test.

Its not. You need to get a sensitive E2 test. The tren is falsely throwing off the number.

Also, unless you're very prone to high E2 and prolactin increase you're taking way too much Nolva, Aromasin, and Caber. I'd guess your E2 is actually crashed. What sides do you have?

I'd stop taking all that shit for a couple weeks. Then go get a full panel with E2 sensitive and prolactin. Then apply AI/prolactin inhibitor as needed.

 

[Sven_Northman]

And Nolva is not an AI. Its a SERM. Aromasin is an AI and is very powerful. 25mg eod will totally crash your E2 no matter how badly your cycle compounds aromatize. Holy shit.

 

[Wacker]

Its not. You need to get a sensitive E2 test. The tren is falsely throwing off the number.

Also, unless you're very prone to high E2 and prolactin increase you're taking way too much Nolva, Aromasin, and Caber. I'd guess your E2 is actually crashed. What sides do you have?

I'd stop taking all that shit for a couple weeks. Then go get a full panel with E2 sensitive and prolactin. Then apply AI/prolactin inhibitor as needed.

I am prone to high estrogen even my TRT doc prescribes me 1mg armidex ed on 200mgs of test a week. But that's the plan stopping everything and going to the endo in a few weeks. Just did not think tren would fuck up the results that much thanks.

 

[Wacker]

And Nolva is not an AI. Its a SERM. Aromasin is an AI and is very powerful. 25mg eod will totally crash your E2 no matter how badly your cycle compounds aromatize. Holy shit.

I have used 25mgs eod for years without every crashing my e2, studies by the phizer show that even at 25mgs a day in men it will only reduce estrogen by 90%, but I do understand that is high for some people.

 

[Sven_Northman]

I am prone to high estrogen even my TRT doc prescribes me 1mg armidex ed on 200mgs of test a week. But that's the plan stopping everything and going to the endo in a few weeks. Just did not think tren would fuck up the results that much thanks.

Thats a lot of AI for such a low dose. What was your E2 on trt before 1mg a day of adex? and post adex?

 

[Sven_Northman]

I have used 25mgs eod for years without every crashing my e2, studies by the phizer show that even at 25mgs a day in men it will only reduce estrogen by 90%, but I do understand that is high for some people.

I'd love to see your bloods on 25mg a day. Any long term use side effects you've noticed? Sucks you're prone to high estro.

 

[Wacker]

Just had bloods taken again on Friday made the doctor give me the full work up.
Total and Free Test
Total Estrogen/E1 and E2
Prolactin
DHT
DHEA
FSH and LH
SHBG

Should be interesting to see where it all lands. From what I can tell its impossible to crash e2 and not e1 as well. Tren might not raise e2 but if its producing progesterone's that convert down to estrone any AI should in effect take it down with the E2 and based on the binding chart you couldn't take down one with out the other. Does that make sense?

Will post the labs when I get them.

 

[dd340]

Just had bloods taken again on Friday made the doctor give me the full work up.
Total and Free Test
Total Estrogen/E1 and E2
Prolactin
DHT
DHEA
FSH and LH
SHBG

Should be interesting to see where it all lands. From what I can tell its impossible to crash e2 and not e1 as well. Tren might not raise e2 but if its producing progesterone's that convert down to estrone any AI should in effect take it down with the E2 and based on the binding chart you couldn't take down one with out the other. Does that make sense?

Will post the labs when I get them. View attachment 126856 View attachment 126857 View attachment 126858

In men E2 is aromatized in the target tissues and taking a blood test will tell you almost nothing of value since you will have no idea what’s happening at the tissue level. It is not a circulatory hormone.

 

[Wacker]

In men E2 is aromatized in the target tissues and taking a blood test will tell you almost nothing of value since you will have no idea what’s happening at the tissue level. It is not a circulatory hormone.

I don't know how to respond to that without sounding like a dick but that is one of the most ridiculous statements about estrogen I have seen.

 

[dd340]

I don't know how to respond to that without sounding like a dick but that is one of the most ridiculous statements about estrogen I have seen.

since you have a PhD in broscience you should probably read through this paper from actual PhD’s and give the rest of us your feedback.
https://pure.aston.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/22917399/Intracrinology_and_the_ocular_surface.pdf

 

[Wacker]

Respond to what dry eye smart ass...you stated that taking a estrogen test is useless that is not a circulating hormone and can be tested only at the tissue level. SO your statement is saying that my E2 can be 500 but that is irrelevant because I didn't have a biopsy on my breast tissue. Tell my ENDO and TRT doctor that.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

This just in; e2 bloodwork is useless.

OP; get a sensitive e2 test and report back.

 

[Wacker]

So bad AI aside, I am assuming the estrone being high is a result of the tren and the e2 a result of the test. What is driving the total so high? Last pin was 14 days before this test and I have not done more than 250mgs of test in over a year.

Thoughts other than bad AI and dry eye?

 

[dd340]

Respond to what dry eye smart ass...you stated that taking a estrogen test is useless that is not a circulating hormone and can be tested only at the tissue level. SO your statement is saying that my E2 can be 500 but that is irrelevant because I didn't have a biopsy on my breast tissue. Tell my ENDO and TRT doctor that.

Did you bother to read it? If you did you would have learned all about how estrogen amortizes at the tissue level in men. I have more papers that show this to be true but there is really no point in posting it since your too shortsighted to read the one that’s already there.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

Did you bother to read it? If you did you would have learned all about how estrogen amortizes at the tissue level in men. I have more papers that show this to be true but there is really no point in posting it since your too shortsighted to read the one that’s already there.

Are you an Endo? If bloodwork citing estrogen levels is irrelevant why is it taken? Why aren’t we all getting biopsies?

What you interpreted and what I interpreted from that study are very different.

If bloodwork is no indication of aromatization in men or relative gauge to be correlated with side effects then why can the use of anti-estrogen be observed in bloodwork? Why would the lowering of your e2 marker on bloodwork correspond with the alleviation of symptoms?

 

[Gbro]

It's true that aromataze enzymes are found in fatty tissue. The byproduct of that aromatization, estrogen, is found in the blood.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

It's true that aromataze enzymes are found in fatty tissue. The byproduct of that aromatization, estrogen, is found in the blood.

Exactly what I’m saying. The Aromatase enzyme is found in tissue everywhere. It results in circulating estrogen which induces side effects at different levels for everyone. The statement that the estrogen test on bloodwork is irrelevant is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Gbro]

Exactly what I’m saying. The Aromatase enzyme is found in tissue everywhere. It results in circulating estrogen which induces side effects at different levels for everyone. The statement that the estrogen test on bloodwork is irrelevant is absolutely ridiculous.

I agree. He only had one piece of the puzzle, and didn't understand how it manifested.

 

[dd340]

I agree. He only had one piece of the puzzle, and didn't understand how it manifested.

Sorry but you guys are wrong. It’s not a circulatory hormone in men. In pre-menopausal women it is as you describe, but not men. Testosterone in men is circulatory, but not estrogen.