Particles in Pharmacom Vials

[ConfusedAF]

Today is my 5th pin of Pharmacom gear, and I noticed some particles in the oil. Are those from the rubber stopper? Are my vials still safe to use? I attached the pics of the 2 vials, and I marked the particles with red circles.

Also, when pinning the rubber stopper, do we need to pin it right in the center, or is any spot fine? Can we use the same hole on each pin or is it better to make a new hole each time? I made new hole each time I draw, and it's not always in the middle area.

 

[RThoads]

@ConfusedAF I do not know if those are from a stopper or not -- I am not coming to any conclusion regarding what that is or how it got into the vial.
It could be pieces of stopper (if so, I advise that you use a smaller draw needle) or something that was injected into a vial after it was opened...or any number or other possibilities; I just have no way to know.

But what I do know with 100% certainty is that you should NOT risk sucking up a particle and injecting it into your body.
Do not use anything with particles because a small solid particle may accidentally get drawn up into the shot.
It is NOT worth the health risk.

Please contact the source directly by using the "Contact Us" form on the source' site and tell their customer service about your observation. They can investigate the situation, help determine what may have occurred, and may offer a replacement etc. I hope you reach a positive resolution.

The "Contact Us" page on the source's site is your best and most efficient way to contact the source (see link in the "code" box below):

https://basicstero.ws/contact

*Be sure to Check Your Email Spam Folder after contacting customer service because in the past some people complain they did not get a reply when in fact their email service filtered the reply to spam.

Also, even if they do replace it, if you have the experience and items needed (sterile .22 micro filter and sterile empty vial) to do so, you can filter the oil to save what is remaining.
But it appears to be such a small amount left that I would not find it worth it.
If it were mine, I would simply show the source and ask for a replacement.

Contact the source's customer service and they should take care of you -- I hope you get a positive resolution.

 

[ConfusedAF]

@ConfusedAF I do not know if those are from a stopper or not -- I am not coming to any conclusion regarding what that is or how it got into the vial.
It could be pieces of stopper (if so, I advise that you use a smaller draw needle) or something that was injected into a vial after it was opened...or any number or other possibilities; I just have no way to know.

But what I do know with 100% certainty is that you should NOT risk sucking up a particle and injecting it into your body.
Do not use anything with particles because a small solid particle may accidentally get drawn up into the shot.
It is NOT worth the health risk.

Please contact the source directly by using the "Contact Us" form on the source' site and tell their customer service about your observation. They can investigate the situation, help determine what may have occurred, and may offer a replacement etc. I hope you reach a positive resolution.

The "Contact Us" page on the source's site is your best and most efficient way to contact the source (see link in the "code" box below):

https://basicstero.ws/contact

*Be sure to Check Your Email Spam Folder after contacting customer service because in the past some people complain they did not get a reply when in fact their email service filtered the reply to spam.

Also, even if they do replace it, if you have the experience and items needed (sterile .22 micro filter and sterile empty vial) to do so, you can filter the oil to save what is remaining.
But it appears to be such a small amount left that I would not find it worth it.
If it were mine, I would simply show the source and ask for a replacement.

Contact the source's customer service and they should take care of you -- I hope you get a positive resolution.

I used 23g needle to draw, so I don't think that the needle is the issue. This happens to all 3 vials that I used (Test, NPP, Primo).

I still have some new vials, but if I don't know the cause of the disintegrated rubber, those will end up the same as these vials.

 

[MisterSuperGod]

If you search the main thread for the word rubber or stopper you'll find that this has been an issue in the past.

However, the owner makes it seem that Pharmascum is beyond reproach, so this will be your fault somehow.

 

[ConfusedAF]

If you search the main thread for the word rubber or stopper you'll find that this has been an issue in the past.

However, the owner makes it seem that Pharmascum is beyond reproach, so this will be your fault somehow.

I'm literally thinking what mistake(s) I could've made during the drawing process, do you think this is just because of their low quality stopper? It happens to all 3 vials I used (Test, NPP, Primo). So replacing with a new vial wouldn't help either, since they all have the same stoppers.

 

[ConfusedAF]

Additional question: When injecting air to multiple vials before drawing, the needle shouldn't touch the oil right? After I injected the air, it returns back to the syringe unless I hold the plunger while pulling it out the vial. Is what I'm doing correct?

 

[Albozz]

First of all these stoppers are shit and low quality and should be replaced with the old ones asap.But out of the 20-30 vials that i used I've had this happen only once(luckily with the last ml).In your case it seems that youre using a cheap needle brand with alot of blunt needles.What brand are you using? And needle should actually touch the oil when pushing air so its easier to draw and you dont have to move the needle.

 

[supremedonkey]

I pin daily and that never happens. I've had it happen years ago once with a certain brand though. Must be the vials they use.

If you get new vials you could do what chase iron on yt does and leave the needle in the rubber stopper that you can use to draw gear out every time.

 

[ConfusedAF]

First of all these stoppers are shit and low quality and should be replaced with the old ones asap.But out of the 20-30 vials that i used I've had this happen only once(luckily with the last ml).In your case it seems that youre using a cheap needle brand with alot of blunt needles.What brand are you using? And needle should actually touch the oil when pushing air so its easier to draw and you dont have to move the needle.

I'm using a reputable brand in my country called OneMed, so pretty sure it's not the needle quality.

 

[ConfusedAF]

I pin daily and that never happens. I've had it happen years ago once with a certain brand though. Must be the vials they use.

If you get new vials you could do what chase iron on yt does and leave the needle in the rubber stopper that you can use to draw gear out every time.

Do you mean to just leave the needle sitting on the vial the whole time without ever removing it? Somehow I don't think it's a good idea man...

 

[ConfusedAF]

What about using filter needle like BD Blunt Fill Needle with 5-Micron filter (18G x 1 1/2")? Would that help preventing the stopper particles into my syringe when drawing?

https://www.bd.com/en-us/products-and-solutions/products/product-page.305211

 

[Btcowboy]

Do you mean to just leave the needle sitting on the vial the whole time without ever removing it? Somehow I don't think it's a good idea man...

Years ago I got putbin HCG from a naturopath. He gave me 1 drawing needle and a cap for it. It worked and I had no issues. If I had an option I maybe would not have went that way.

My 20g needles from my source was causing same issues as you. I went up to 25g to draw and never an issue since

 

[ConfusedAF]

Years ago I got putbin HCG from a naturopath. He gave me 1 drawing needle and a cap for it. It worked and I had no issues. If I had an option I maybe would not have went that way.

My 20g needles from my source was causing same issues as you. I went up to 25g to draw and never an issue since

I thought 23g should be fine for drawing, I'll try using 25g (my pinning needles for VG) for the remaining new vials then.

 

[RThoads]

Do you mean to just leave the needle sitting on the vial the whole time without ever removing it? Somehow I don't think it's a good idea man...

I agree with you that it is not a good idea to leave a needle sitting in the vial.
The needle is a path that allows material (very small particles, pathogens etc) to potentially travel into the vial.
A sterile vial is sealed to isolate the contents from the external environment.
Even when we draw, we should always sterilize the external surface of the vial before pushing a needle from the external side into the internal contents.
Please do not risk leaving a needle (an open tube) in the vial because that would no longer be a sealed sterile vial.

 

[Btcowboy]

I thought 23g should be fine for drawing, I'll try using 25g (my pinning needles for VG) for the remaining new vials then.

23 should be fine, thinking cheap or old stoppers

 

[RThoads]

I thought 23g should be fine for drawing, I'll try using 25g (my pinning needles for VG) for the remaining new vials then.

23g should be good. IF you've been using 23g and they are good quality, it is not the needle size that is any issue.
Sure 25g is even better (but as you go smaller, the time it takes to draw will start really increasing -- I've even used slin pins for daily tren-a in a past cycle, but I needed to slightly warm the oil to help make it practical).

I see you mentioned injecting air into the vial (a totally normal practice and I used to do it myself until I realized I did not need back-pressure to draw; now i prefer not to add anything into the vial, not even air), it may be possible that the needles themselves may have particles from manufacture or something external was injected into the vials.
While I personally think this is unlikely, I am simply sharing the fact that there are many possible variables here.

In my opinion, if you are confident it is a high-quality needle brand, then most likely it is small pieces of the stopper that broke off into the vial.
I think your initial idea that it is small pieces of the stopper is the most likely case.

I remember there were some batches a while back that had stoppers from a different OEM stopper supplier than what was usually used.
I do not know why there was a switch -- my guess is that it was simply supply-chain/availability issues (covid policies in some countries shutdown a lot of businesses and shipping etc -- including access to warehouses for months).
The source agreed that these stoppers did not meet their standards and stated that a different stopper supplier would be used in future batches.

 

[ConfusedAF]

23 should be fine, thinking cheap or old stoppers

It happens to all three vials, two of them are manufactured in 2021, while one is from 2019 (its stopper look different from the 2021 ones). If I open the new vials and use them, I bet they would all end up in similar fashion.

 

[ConfusedAF]

23g should be good. IF you've been using 23g and they are good quality, it is not the needle size that is any issue.
Sure 25g is even better (but as you go smaller, the time it takes to draw will start really increasing -- I've even used slin pins for daily tren-a in a past cycle, but I needed to slightly warm the oil to help make it practical).

I see you mentioned injecting air into the vial (a totally normal practice and I used to do it myself until I realized I did not need back-pressure to draw; now i prefer not to add anything into the vial, not even air), it may be possible that the needles themselves may have particles from manufacture or something external was injected into the vials.
While I personally think this is unlikely, I am simply sharing the fact that there are many possible variables here.

In my opinion, if you are confident it is a high-quality needle brand, then most likely it is small pieces of the stopper that broke off into the vial.
I think your initial idea that it is small pieces of the stopper is the most likely case.

I remember there were some batches a while back that had stoppers from a different OEM stopper supplier than what was usually used.
I do not know why there was a switch -- my guess is that it was simply supply-chain/availability issues (covid policies in some countries shutdown a lot of businesses and shipping etc -- including access to warehouses for months).
The source agreed that these stoppers did not meet their standards and stated that a different stopper supplier would be used in future batches.

Right now, I'm pretty confused of what to do. I guess I'll try the 5 micron filter needles for these 3 vials and finish them.

I need to know how to prevent this from happening again with my remaining new vials though.

 

[Sacario]

Right now, I'm pretty confused of what to do. I guess I'll try the 5 micron filter needles for these 3 vials and finish them.

I need to know how to prevent this from happening again with my remaining new vials though.

Make them resend you new vials. It's not on you. This is a result of them using cheap shit. I've used an 18 gauge for 10+ years and never had an issue with rubber in the vial

 

[RThoads]

What about using filter needle like BD Blunt Fill Needle with 5-Micron filter (18G x 1 1/2")? Would that help preventing the stopper particles into my syringe when drawing?

https://www.bd.com/en-us/products-and-solutions/products/product-page.305211

Right now, I'm pretty confused of what to do. I guess I'll try the 5 micron filter needles for these 3 vials and finish them.

While those 5 micron filter-needles will filter out the solid particle, I myself would not accept that as enough because it will not guarantee sterility.
Most likely you will be fine using this idea. And, if you always sterilized the external surface of the stopper before each use, it is even more likely you will be ok.
However, these filter needles do not sterilize -- they only filter out relatively large particles such as dusk and little tiny pieces of glass (people who use glass amps should use these to filter-needles to remove the potential of drawing up any tiny glass dust/shards from breaking open an amp).

Because I have no way to know if whatever you see in the vial is sterile, I would not risk it -- our health is never worth risking.
We can always get different vials, ask for replacements, buy from another source, or just quit using etc. but we can never get a new body.
The small inconvenience of trying to get a replacement, or just taking the tiny financial loss, or doing the work to properly filter to ensure sterility, are all far better than dealing with a serious health issue.

I know it sucks and it is an inconvenience, but please simply contact the source directly and ask for a replacement, and/or use 0.22 micro sterile filter and sterile empty vial to transfer the contents, but don't risk a potentially adverse health issue.

The "Contact Us" page on the source's site is your best and most efficient way to contact the source (see link in the "code" box below):

https://basicstero.ws/contact

I need to know how to prevent this from happening again with my remaining new vials though.

Try the smaller gauge needle. even though nothing is wrong with using a 23g, if the stoppers are weak, a smaller gauge will always do less damage than a larger gauge.

Make sure to sterilize the outer surface of the stopper before each use. I always wipe 2 to 3 separate times with alcohol, and let dry completely after each pass, before I draw.

When you insert the needle into the stopper try to come at a slight angle that allows the longer end of the needle bevel to contact the surface first; then just slightly decrease that angle so as to gentle easy the needle through as opposed to just punching a hole.
I wish I had a way to say it better or show what I mean.