panic attack

[mrjodaa]

Hi, im right now in cycle 150mg tst E e3.5d and 150mg mast E e3.5d. And now for the last few days I have a panic attack at night, I feel like I have a heart attack and a feeling of loss of consciousness and unpleasant heat runs through my whole body, all this happens when I try to fall asleep, I have no problems during the day and I feel very well, i havent some psychical problems, but night comes and it's fucked. In the past i had two cycles, tst e 250 e5d first cycle, second cycle tst e 150mg e3.5d + dbol 20mg 6w, i had no problems all the cycles i had on 12w. Do you think this can be caused by the masteron? I don't know what to do, I'm in a 6 week cycle and I'm wondering if I shouldn't end it, does anyone here have experience with this? i dont use stimulants, no coffe, no cigarettes, alcohol and more. I know this problem can be solved by a psychologist who prescribes antidepressants, but first I want to try some alternatives without antidepressants.

My blood pressure is normal 120/80 maximum value 135/90. Supps multivitamin + multimineral (chelate) vit d3, omega3, zinc, magnesium bysglicinate. Here my blood results, nothing special i think, cholesterol little bad and hematokrit. But I didn't measure e2, he can do that this problem, I've heard. Thanks for help

 

[gabody]

I would say this either your e2 which may be to low, or only in your head. I had the same problem during my first cycle, to be honest, even the second day of my cycle lol (I did only one spot of 150mg test), so I knew it was only in my head (in my case).
My advice first is try to check your e2 : if they are to low you increase your test level or decrease masteron. And if your e2 are correct, maybe you can try to do some things which are good for your health and especially good for your heart. If this is placebo, the fact that you do good things will probably decrease your anxiety, do some cardio, drink a lot of water, no to much salt or sugar, and eat a lot of garlic.
If you this right now, I am pretty sure that it will work.

 

[mrjodaa]

I don't take any AI, so my e2 will be high rather than low, but tomorrow I'll go check the blood and see, maybe it makes me masteron because it's very strong dht and dht can cause these problems I've read. I'll try to eat really clean now, without some shits. THX

 

[Jin23]

Hi, im right now in cycle 150mg tst E e3.5d and 150mg mast E e3.5d. And now for the last few days I have a panic attack at night, I feel like I have a heart attack and a feeling of loss of consciousness and unpleasant heat runs through my whole body, all this happens when I try to fall asleep, I have no problems during the day and I feel very well, i havent some psychical problems, but night comes and it's fucked. In the past i had two cycles, tst e 250 e5d first cycle, second cycle tst e 150mg e3.5d + dbol 20mg 6w, i had no problems all the cycles i had on 12w. Do you think this can be caused by the masteron? I don't know what to do, I'm in a 6 week cycle and I'm wondering if I shouldn't end it, does anyone here have experience with this? i dont use stimulants, no coffe, no cigarettes, alcohol and more. I know this problem can be solved by a psychologist who prescribes antidepressants, but first I want to try some alternatives without antidepressants.

My blood pressure is normal 120/80 maximum value 135/90. Supps multivitamin + multimineral (chelate) vit d3, omega3, zinc, magnesium bysglicinate. Here my blood results, nothing special i think, cholesterol little bad and hematokrit. But I didn't measure e2, he can do that this problem, I've heard. Thanks for help View attachment 167172

For sure, masteron is pure dht and it is anxiogenic. You are not the first one, that I've heard, that had panic attacks on masteron. I would say avoid DHT based aas and stick to test, GH, dbol, ... Test in higher numbers though, might also be more anxiogenic as it converts to DHT.

Also, I'm sure you are more anxious in your day to day, you probably only aren't aware of it.

The amygdala, part of your brain responsible, amongst other things, for fight or flight response, has I think, the highest number of androgen receptors in the brain. This is why aas is a very bad idea for people that have anxiety issues of any sorts, as aas will only aggravate it. PTSD for example, and aas don't mix at all. The more you will push yourself, the more "agrevated", "hyperactive" the amygdala will get and your gonna give your self a sort of chemical ptsd. Antidepressants, that you've mentioned, SSRI's for example, are really good at calming down the amygdala and for example, using ssri's is the only way I can tolerate moderate dosages of aas.

So, stay away from mast, maybe try primo, but I warn you, it to is anxiogenic. I've found NPP to be very similar to dbol in it's mental effects, so maybe try that, but 19nor's have, globally speaking, a much broader impact on neurochemistry and I never really recommend them, especially if you're only doing short cycles, as their metabolites stay real long in the body.

Just drop the mast, don't force it. And also, again, try HGH, it's very anxiolytic. Low dose ssri is also an option. For me, a 12.5mg dose of sertraline (50mg is officially the lowest clinically effective dose) does wonders for my anxiety and also, libido comes down to manageable levels on cycle, so that also helps in mental stability.

 

[mrjodaa]

For sure, masteron is pure dht and it is anxiogenic. You are not the first one, that I've heard, that had panic attacks on masteron. I would say avoid DHT based aas and stick to test, GH, dbol, ... Test in higher numbers though, might also be more anxiogenic as it converts to DHT.

Also, I'm sure you are more anxious in your day to day, you probably only aren't aware of it.

The amygdala, part of your brain responsible, amongst other things, for fight or flight response, has I think, the highest number of androgen receptors in the brain. This is why aas is a very bad idea for people that have anxiety issues of any sorts, as aas will only aggravate it. PTSD for example, and aas don't mix at all. The more you will push yourself, the more "agrevated", "hyperactive" the amygdala will get and your gonna give your self a sort of chemical ptsd. Antidepressants, that you've mentioned, SSRI's for example, are really good at calming down the amygdala and for example, using ssri's is the only way I can tolerate moderate dosages of aas.

So, stay away from mast, maybe try primo, but I warn you, it to is anxiogenic. I've found NPP to be very similar to dbol in it's mental effects, so maybe try that, but 19nor's have, globally speaking, a much broader impact on neurochemistry and I never really recommend them, especially if you're only doing short cycles, as their metabolites stay real long in the body.

Just drop the mast, don't force it. And also, again, try HGH, it's very anxiolytic. Low dose ssri is also an option. For me, a 12.5mg dose of sertraline (50mg is officially the lowest clinically effective dose) does wonders for my anxiety and also, libido comes down to manageable levels on cycle, so that also helps in mental stability.

thank you very much for the answer bro, I needed to hear this and I'm glad you confirmed it to me, I immediately leave the mast and try to continue with the test only and maybe I'll try to add npp or hgh, if now I still have anxious feelings I'll try to add 12.5 mg sertraline , thank you for the advice

 

[Jin23]

thank you very much for the answer bro, I needed to hear this and I'm glad you confirmed it to me, I immediately leave the mast and try to continue with the test only and maybe I'll try to add npp or hgh, if now I still have anxious feelings I'll try to add 12.5 mg sertraline , thank you for the advice

Just get back to normal first and stay there for a while and then add something else, that would be my cautious advice.

Regarding sertraline, that is the dosage that works for me, it might not work for you, as it's a really low dosage. Do keep in mind that ssri's have their own side's and I don't recommend them lightly to anybody, but if you're experiencing true panic attacks, then, ... the choice is yours, depending on how tolerable the situation is for you.

SSRI's first have a positive effect, due to more serotonin hitting the postsynaptic 5HT1a receptors, then a light negative, and then a long term positive. The downward mood regulation is due to presynaptic 5HT1a auto receptors downregulating serotonin and within a few weeks, the same receptors desensitize and serotonin gets back up again. I'm saying this as a warning, because it might get a bit worse for a second, before it gets better. But if you start with a small dose, like the one I mentioned, this effect will be diminished. Srri's can have long lasting negative effects like pssd for example, so again, weight your choice accordingly.

If masteron is really the only problem, and seeing as you are on a low dose, in two weeks time it's blood serum concentration will be very low, as that's almost 3 half life's for enanthate. So if you think you'll be alright after mast clears out, you can either stick it out, or use something else like buspirone maybe, idk, there are plenty options for short term anxiety treatment. Heck, even benzos for a two weeks time, something with less rebound anxiety like clonazepam, will have much less long term sides or actually no long term sides. But again, benzos are no joke. So maybe some more light anxiolytics like kava kava or selank, etifoxine, ... Idk what's their effect on amygdala hyperactivity though, ssri's are really good at that but they are a more long term solution ...

Also, having the neurosteroid cascade fulfilled is also important. Some neurosteroids, like allopregnanolone, are anxiolytic and thus quite important. So you need to use hcg for that.

 

[mrjodaa]

Just get back to normal first and stay there for a while and then add something else, that would be my cautious advice.

Regarding sertraline, that is the dosage that works for me, it might not work for you, as it's a really low dosage. Do keep in mind that ssri's have their own side's and I don't recommend them lightly to anybody, but if you're experiencing true panic attacks, then, ... the choice is yours, depending on how tolerable the situation is for you.

SSRI's first have a positive effect, due to more serotonin hitting the postsynaptic 5HT1a receptors, then a light negative, and then a long term positive. The downward mood regulation is due to presynaptic 5HT1a auto receptors downregulating serotonin and within a few weeks, the same receptors desensitize and serotonin gets back up again. I'm saying this as a warning, because it might get a bit worse for a second, before it gets better. But if you start with a small dose, like the one I mentioned, this effect will be diminished. Srri's can have long lasting negative effects like pssd for example, so again, weight your choice accordingly.

If masteron is really the only problem, and seeing as you are on a low dose, in two weeks time it's blood serum concentration will be very low, as that's almost 3 half life's for enanthate. So if you think you'll be alright after mast clears out, you can either stick it out, or use something else like buspirone maybe, idk, there are plenty options for short term anxiety treatment. Heck, even benzos for a two weeks time, something with less rebound anxiety like clonazepam, will have much less long term sides or actually no long term sides. But again, benzos are no joke. So maybe some more light anxiolytics like kava kava or selank, etifoxine, ... Idk what's their effect on amygdala hyperactivity though, ssri's are really good at that but they are a more long term solution ...

Also, having the neurosteroid cascade fulfilled is also important. Some neurosteroids, like allopregnanolone, are anxiolytic and thus quite important. So you need to use hcg for that.

yes i understand i will do as you say. Thank you for the detailed description and that you can explain it so nicely.

I know it's only a mental problem, so even though at night I think I have a heart attack and I'm going to die, I can keep my head calm and breathe and it will pass, but the problem is that you're afraid to fall asleep. so antidepressants would only be used in this case. but I believe that now that I know more information, I can fight it better

do you think i can use hcg? since i wanted to use it right now from the 6 week cycle, i always do it to be ready for pct

 

[Jin23]

I mean if heart rate is the only thing that's triggering you, why not use propranolol?

do you think i can use hcg? since i wanted to use it right now from the 6 week cycle, i always do it to be ready for pct

Why couldn't you? Hcg should be used through the whole cycle imo.

 

[TrenTrenTren]

For sure, masteron is pure dht and it is anxiogenic. You are not the first one, that I've heard, that had panic attacks on masteron. I would say avoid DHT based aas and stick to test, GH, dbol, ... Test in higher numbers though, might also be more anxiogenic as it converts to DHT.

Also, I'm sure you are more anxious in your day to day, you probably only aren't aware of it.

The amygdala, part of your brain responsible, amongst other things, for fight or flight response, has I think, the highest number of androgen receptors in the brain. This is why aas is a very bad idea for people that have anxiety issues of any sorts, as aas will only aggravate it. PTSD for example, and aas don't mix at all. The more you will push yourself, the more "agrevated", "hyperactive" the amygdala will get and your gonna give your self a sort of chemical ptsd. Antidepressants, that you've mentioned, SSRI's for example, are really good at calming down the amygdala and for example, using ssri's is the only way I can tolerate moderate dosages of aas.

So, stay away from mast, maybe try primo, but I warn you, it to is anxiogenic. I've found NPP to be very similar to dbol in it's mental effects, so maybe try that, but 19nor's have, globally speaking, a much broader impact on neurochemistry and I never really recommend them, especially if you're only doing short cycles, as their metabolites stay real long in the body.

Just drop the mast, don't force it. And also, again, try HGH, it's very anxiolytic. Low dose ssri is also an option. For me, a 12.5mg dose of sertraline (50mg is officially the lowest clinically effective dose) does wonders for my anxiety and also, libido comes down to manageable levels on cycle, so that also helps in mental stability.

Good post, but it's strange... Masteron gives me a calm, euphoric feeling...the total opposite of panic.

 

[Jin23]

Good post, but it's strange... Masteron gives me a calm, euphoric feeling...the total opposite of panic.

Hah, that must be nice. I envy all of you that aas effect in such a way. I just get more anxious, ego goes up and so do negative emotions. A bad cocktail. Ssri's negate most of this and I become a loving, self confident person (on cycle). But unfortunately my adhd goes to chit, can't concentrate on anything, so it's not really a viable option for me.

 

[Rido]

Good post, but it's strange... Masteron gives me a calm, euphoric feeling...the total opposite of panic.

I would have to second this.

Have you ever used Masteron @Jin23 or are you basing this off all of correlation with the drug category?

 

[mrjodaa]

I agree with @Jin23, because of course most people don't have these problems, but when it caused these anxiety to someone, they had strong dht like masteron, proviron and more in the cycle..but of course it could be something else, now I'll left the mast and see if there is a change

 

[Jin23]

I would have to second this.

Have you ever used Masteron @Jin23 or are you basing this off all of correlation with the drug category?

I have, yes, but a long time ago and can't really remember it's effects. But I'm high in anxiety so no aas really has a positive effect on me. I remember not sleeping well ...

I'm also basing this on a lot of anecdotal descriptions of other forum members. I remember, specifically, one young member, who also had panic attack on it. He still to this day can't stop talking about mast, it's actually a joke at this point. That's over at AM though ...

In regards to very different outcomes between individuals, this has to do with a lot of factors, obviously, but imo, I'd say that these two things will most definitely predict a poor response to acute aas exposure: an dysregulated HPA axis and a hyperactive amygdala (link in previous post). Now, there is a difference to a short exposure to aas and a longer one. This is why you might feel ok for the first couple of weeks, or even months, but later on you will be burned out, anxious, irritable, unfocused ... Aas do a shit tone to our brains; they increase inflammation (in a multiple ways), decrease BDNF (which also leads to inflammation) , they chronically elevate the HPA axis, they "downregulate" glucocorticoid receptors, etc. etc. Basically chronic exposure to aas can lead, neurochemically, to something that is really similar to depression, generalized anxiety disorder, ptsd, etc. Chronic downregulation of neurotrophic factors is really bad. In any case, all of this can be somewhat prevented by use of antidepressants (it was shown in studies, that they prevent aas induced "depression"), as they do elevate bdnf et. al, and other agents that promote neurogenesis and reduce brain inflammation; cerebrolysine, semax, selank, just to name a few that are currently popular ...

I don't know why dht's are seemingly the worst offenders. Need to research it a bit more. It's on the to do list, but I haven't goten to it yet.

 

[barbell001]

I think it will be the Masteron mate - I have briefly used it in the past and it made me feel very edgy and nervous like caffeine does. I discontinued it for this reason - Try dropping it and see if you feel any better

 

[RunTrenFcukTens]

Shiiiiit all my masteron must have been bunk if it causes anxiety. Only bad sides I notice from Mast Prop at 400mg/wk is hair shedding and a little bit more on edge/aggression. Not genetically predisposed to MBP either.

 

[barbell001]

Shiiiiit all my masteron must have been bunk if it causes anxiety. Only bad sides I notice from Mast Prop at 400mg/wk is hair shedding and a little bit more on edge/aggression. Not genetically predisposed to MBP either.

It may not be bunk - I know many guys who cannot run Tren because of horrific anxiety and paranoia but I can run it very high and get none of it. Like medications our bodies respond in different ways to compounds.

 

[Harley00]

Low e2/high e2 can cause heart palps and anxiety, looking at it on paper mast at the 1:1 your taking your test to mast, one could assume low e2 . I would say if your very sweaty at night, have high heart palps and possibly your bowel movements are not great then its very possible your low e2.

Ill help out on the high heart rate heart palps FEELING LIKE YOUR DYING PART.

What happens is when you take testosterone you lower your thyroid binding globulin, this frees up more ft4 and ft3 hormones , speeding up your metabolism , now typically what happnes is mens estrogen increases when we take testosterone and raises your TbG and balances out your thyroid and how it delivers your hormones, (so example if your e2 is too high it could actually block those hormones and cause you to go hypo, this is where people end up with higher tsh's)
In your case your taking test which is lowering your TbG then on top of that lowering your estrogen more with masteron,which lowers your TbG putting you in a hyperthyroidism (so too much ft4 ft3) state causing anxiety and sweats and heart palps.

My recommendation is to stop or lower the mast /or take some hcg to increase your e2 or pop 1 dbol for 2 days to quickly rasie estrogen to see if that issue relives itself. Or slow approach stop the mast. Then give it a week.

 

[InjuredGorilla]

Some people get anxiety from Mast, it has an effect on brain neurons, you could be one of the unlikely ones.

When I used Mast P, at 600mg I was feeling wired and very strong sense of well-being.

BUT

It can also be test : DHT ratio, worth getting blood done on those.

 

[mrjodaa]

I have no heartbeat or sweating problems now, in previous cycles I always measured e2 values, I always had it high because I never used AI in the cycle, but I did not feel any problems with high e2 even though I took dbol, so I think that now on the test+mast my e2 will not be higher than on the test + dbol, but tomorrow I will go to measure it together with t3, t4. I dropped Masteron 3 days ago

 

[mrjodaa]

Guys what values do you suggest I measure on blood tomorrow?