First cycle - Looking for advice

[Tanaz]

Hello fellows,
I would like to start my 1st cycle. I have 35 years old.
Also, from my last blood test, my testosterone is just above the upper normal range.

I do not want to get bigger, I would like to get leaner.
For now I am a full natural bodybuilder.

My 1st goal is to lose fat. Gaining some lean mass would be secondary, maybe just a bit but not too much.
I would also like to take 2 IU of hGH every day for life quality improvement, even during the following cycle.

I was thinking about then starting the following cycle:

2 weeks Clen 20mcg

4 weeks Test 500mg/week (with aromatise in my left pocket, last week with HCG in my right pocket)

4 weeks PCT

2 weeks Clen 20mcg

2 weeks off

2 weeks Clen 20mcg + Anavar 20mg (with or without Test?)
2 weeks light PCT

Now I drop the bomb.
I would like to do this cycle all under caloric restriction (some fasting too).

I have already planned for a full blood work for next week before starting, with your blessing, the cycle the week after.

Before doing this post, I've used the search function!
I also have read basically the entire forum and the articles too.
Please be kind with me with constructive answers. I also like sarcasm, I do not mind insults until there is also a constructive advice included.

Take care mates!
Cheers.

 

[Leg_locker]

Definitely use the search function a little more.... Maybe look up cycle lengths for different esters or why you should never run oral only cycles.
no blessing for you

 

[Tanaz]

Definitely use the search function a little more.... Maybe look up cycle lengths for different esters or why you should never run oral only cycles.
no blessing for you

Could you elaborate a little more?
Do you a link to a topic I should check?

Thanks you.

 

[Norse13]

Now I drop the bomb: this cycle makes no sense at all.

However, it can be fixed. Your objective is to retain muscle mass while losing fat, supported by steroids. You don't need to build any more muscle, just keep what you have.

This doesn't need to be so complicated. You can probably achieve it with just a bit of testosterone. E.g. 250mg test enantate per week. Duration is up to you, but anything less than 10 weeks would be strange.

Increasing testosterone from 250 to 500 isn't going to achieve much. Since you're in calorie deficit, you won't build new muscles. So your steroid dosage should be sufficient to retain muscle but not much more.

 

[Tanaz]

Now I drop the bomb: this cycle makes no sense at all.

However, it can be fixed. Your objective is to retain muscle mass while losing fat, supported by steroids. You don't need to build any more muscle, just keep what you have.

This doesn't need to be so complicated. You can probably achieve it with just a bit of testosterone. E.g. 250mg test enantate per week. Duration is up to you, but anything less than 10 weeks would be strange.

Increasing testosterone from 250 to 500 isn't going to achieve much. Since you're in calorie deficit, you won't build new muscles. So your steroid dosage should be sufficient to retain muscle but not much more.

Thank you for you answer!

So, fixing my bullshit cycle...
You would suggest Clen + 250mg Test for my cycle?
Or only Test?

Also, reading articles on this forum, I have read that a low dosage under 300mg/week of Test would only suppress you endogenous production without giving any result. So they suggest to use at least 500mg/week as minimum.
If I remember correctly, I have also read it on a Bill Roberts' article.
What do you think about it?

If this was true, wouldn't be better do a Clen cycle without Test first (maybe 4-6 weeks) and then do a Test/Anavar cycle to get back the lean mass I will lose without getting (much) fat?

Also, about Clen.
On this forum a lot of people suggest the 2 week on / 2 week off.
Palumbo, on his last video about Clen, it says is better to do 4-8 weeks without off weeks.
What do you think?

Is it possible to do Clen only cycle 6 weeks or is it no sense?
(always coupled with 2 IU of hGH every day)

Thanks again for your time.
I apologize if I sound retarded, but better ask than get fked later xD.

Take care!

Edit:
This was the citation from Bill Roberts:
"For this reason, low dose testosterone use is not particularly efficient, as natural production is already “worth” 100-200 mg/week, and this is mostly lost with the first 200 mg/week of injectable that is used."

Testosterone Profile

Testosterone, as the natural product drug and one of the most widely used anabolic steroids, is the most convenient choice for a reference drug to which

thinksteroids.com

 

[Norse13]

Thank you for you answer!

So, fixing my bullshit cycle...
You would suggest Clen + 250mg Test for my cycle?
Or only Test?

Also, reading articles on this forum, I have read that a low dosage under 300mg/week of Test would only suppress you endogenous production without giving any result. So they suggest to use at least 500mg/week as minimum.
If I remember correctly, I have also read it on a Bill Roberts' article.
What do you think about it?

If this was true, wouldn't be better do a Clen cycle without Test first (maybe 4-6 weeks) and then do a Test/Anavar cycle to get back the lean mass I will lose without getting (much) fat?

Also, about Clen.
On this forum a lot of people suggest the 2 week on / 2 week off.
Palumbo, on his last video about Clen, it says is better to do 4-8 weeks without off weeks.
What do you think?

Is it possible to do Clen only cycle 6 weeks or is it no sense?
(always coupled with 2 IU of hGH every day)

Thanks again for your time.
I apologize if I sound retarded, but better ask than get fked later xD.

Take care!

Edit:
This was the citation from Bill Roberts:
"For this reason, low dose testosterone use is not particularly efficient, as natural production is already “worth” 100-200 mg/week, and this is mostly lost with the first 200 mg/week of injectable that is used."

Testosterone Profile

Testosterone, as the natural product drug and one of the most widely used anabolic steroids, is the most convenient choice for a reference drug to which

thinksteroids.com

You're not retarded at all, better to ask one question too many, than one too little.

To put this in context, keep in mind that there's 2 main uses of steroid (for aesthetics, bodybuilding)
1. Hold on to muscles while in calorie deficit (lose fat, not muscle)
2. Accelerate development of muscles in calorie surplus (build bigger muscles faster, and beyond your genetic limits)

(Yes, steroids are used in cruise to maintain muscles too)

For muscle retention in calorie deficit, you don't need much. A bit of test is enough. Peter Hill just posted a video claiming that if you're less than 100kg stage muscle, you should never need more than 200mg test in a diet. He's a pretty well known competitor's coach in UK rather than some fitness influencer.

For muscle build, the sky is the limit, and you won't get anything out of 200mg test.

Strategically, usually we bulk and cut, with a cruise of varying length dependent on personal goals. It isn't healthy to blast for excessively long periods of time. I'm keeping this vague because it varies on so many factors - your risk acceptance, how advanced you are, your goals, your body reaction etc. But as a concept, since you can't always be on big doses, strategically it's preferable to be on low dose during cut and big dose during bulk.

If you are competing and need to reach extremely low bodyfat level, temporarily, you will need a fair bit more steroids to hold on to your muscles. That's not your situation here.

I don't feel qualified to comment on the clen. I can't have my hands shaking at work like a fcuking crack head, so I haven't used it for a decade or more. Others may have helpful opinions on that.

 

[Deezznutzz]

Clen prescribed for asthma is 40 MCG up to twice a day. Some people think they're losing fat on low-dose Clen but me personally no. You're not going to see any fat loss until you tirate up the dosage to at least 80 MCG all the way up to 160 MCG a day. You can run a clen cycle for a couple of months if you get some ketotifen. Some people are super sensitive to stimulants I am not ....but you may see some effects when you get around 80 MCG ...everyone responds differently to clenbuterol. I have seen some people respond on low-dose Clen but it's actually probably just because they're breathing better while they're doing their cardio.

 

[Tanaz]

I would like the lowest possible risk.
As far as I know, Test and Anavar are the safest. I would like to save them for an eventually bulk phase when I have reached my leanness goal.
So, like you said, I would be on steroid as less as possible.

This was the reason I wanted to start with Clen/hGH only.
To mess with my endogenous production of Testosterone as less as possible.
What do you suggest instead for cutting other than testosterone?

For what I have read, a replacement testosterone therapy is about 200-300mg/week for old men. Meaning that is the quantity to get to physiological levels if you have not your own production (and when you inject exogenous test you also have no own production).
Do you agree with this?
Because if this is true 200mg/week of Testosterone I already have them by my own.
But I could be wrong...

 

[Tanaz]

Clen prescribed for asthma is 40 MCG up to twice a day. Some people think they're losing fat on low-dose Clen but me personally no. You're not going to see any fat loss until you tirate up the dosage to at least 80 MCG all the way up to 160 MCG a day. You can run a clen cycle for a couple of months if you get some ketotifen. Some people are super sensitive to stimulants I am not ....but you may see some effects when you get around 80 MCG ...everyone responds differently to clenbuterol. I have seen some people respond on low-dose Clen but it's actually probably just because they're breathing better while they're doing their cardio.

Thank you for your help.
Much appreciated!

Let's say I start with 20mcg till reaching 80/day after 4-5 days.
At least 2 weeks then re-evaluate the situation.
The GH association is good?

Can I take the ketotifen in the evening instead that at the same time of the Clen.
So the sleepiness side-effect would actually help me to sleep?

Does ketotifen has another name? Because I can't find it where I bought the rest of the gear.

 

[Deezznutzz]

Thank you for your help.
Much appreciated!

Let's say I start with 20mcg till reaching 80/day after 4-5 days.
At least 2 weeks then re-evaluate the situation.
The GH association is good?

Can I take the ketotifen in the evening instead that at the same time of the Clen.
So the sleepiness side-effect would actually help me to sleep?

Does ketotifen has another name? Because I can't find it where I bought the rest of the gear.

It's not available in the usa. Got mine from mexico. Bgpharmadrugs has it here. Take it after 3 weeks in and 1mg a day. I take it in the morning and it doesnt make me sleepy or hungary. I dont feel it at all. I have ran clen up to 3 months. I dont see any side effects except night pillow sweats at max dosage and wierd dreams.

 

[Deezznutzz]

You can start out on trt 200 test a week.It will be a slow grow. You may get 7lbs of muscle in 12 months. 400 test a week for 3 months is a good beginner cycle but you wont see a lot of gaines ....but you will learn a lot about your body and hematacrit /rbc / estrogen levels and stuff before you do a bigger cycle. My first begginer cycle recomendation would be 400 test 3 months. If 6 weeks labs look ok I'd add in 50 mg anavar in the last 8 weeks. Then after the cycle was over I'd go to 200 a week trt and add in the clen to peal off a bit of fluff. I would say run all three together but maybe not on your first cycle until you learn more about how your body responds.I'd have arimidex on hand. You may need .5mg twice a week but pre labs and 6 weeks labs will give you a better clue. If your estrogen is a few points high on pre labs you will need an ai most likely.

 

[Tanaz]

Thank you very much for your input!
I will try it after my cut cycle though.

Have you ever tried the Cardarine/Stenabolic for cutting?

 

[Tanaz]

This is what I was talking about when I said that some people thinks that low test is not worth the suppression:

300mg Test E &100mg Anavar

Wondering as to the quality of the gains from this type of cycle. I have been seeing a lot of information about how a high TRT dose around 300mg's helps cut back on bloat and aromatization, while building lean mass esp. coupled with that amount of Anavar. Looking to get some opinions as to what...

thinksteroids.com

What do you think?

 

[Leg_locker]

This is what I was talking about when I said that some people thinks that low test is not worth the suppression:

300mg Test E &100mg Anavar

Wondering as to the quality of the gains from this type of cycle. I have been seeing a lot of information about how a high TRT dose around 300mg's helps cut back on bloat and aromatization, while building lean mass esp. coupled with that amount of Anavar. Looking to get some opinions as to what...

thinksteroids.com

What do you think?

That thread is from 5 years ago alot has changed since then. Everyone used to recommend 500 test 40mg dbol for beginner cycle now most people steer clear of dbol entirely and suggest 200-350 for beginners.

For what I have read, a replacement testosterone therapy is about 200-300mg/week for old men

You could never get a doctor to prescribe you 300mg unless he was a $pecial dr. They all start at 80mg/week here then go up according to blood work. Most iv ever personally seen get prescribed is 120mg.

Have you ever tried the Cardarine/Stenabolic for cutting

I love cardarine take l carnitine with it to increase its effectiveness.

 

[Tanaz]

That thread is from 5 years ago alot has changed since then. Everyone used to recommend 500 test 40mg dbol for beginner cycle now most people steer clear of dbol entirely and suggest 200-350 for beginners.

You could never get a doctor to prescribe you 300mg unless he was a $pecial dr. They all start at 80mg/week here then go up according to blood work. Most iv ever personally seen get prescribed is 120mg.

I love cardarine take l carnitine with it to increase its effectiveness.

Thanks bro!
I will definitely not go over 300-400 for my 1st bulk cycle then.

Have you ever heard of Cardarine/Stenabolic stack?
Can I stack it with Clen?

Clen should increase the metabolism, Cardarine/Stenabolic give you better performance, energy and better fat oxidation.
Feasible?

 

[Leg_locker]

Have you ever heard of Cardarine/Stenabolic stack?
Can I stack it with Clen?

Cardarine is a great drug I noticed a big endurance Improvement from it. Never used sr9009 but lots of people say they stack well and yes you can use clen with them

 

[Tanaz]

Thanks for the reply mate!

So, I have started my cut cycle this week.
2 IU hGH/day split in early morning and noon. Everyday.
Clen, started at 40mcg/day split in 2, morning and noon. 5 days on, 2 off. Tomorrow I increase to 60mcg. Next week I start with 60 and end to 80.

I will try it 3 or 4 weeks.

For now, 0 side effects from clen.
All coupled with my nutritional plan.

I will keep you posted.

 

[Hayes88]

Gotta say big damn thumbs up to the guys above with the help/ information, probably the most humble help post I have seen and with great advice at that!

 

[baked_cake]

I personally can't take more than 1 dose of 10mg anavar in the morning or I start jaw clenching and can't sleep. I do love the pump though.

I'm also thinking you will be feeling pretty bad taking just anavar, as it converts to dht, or is a dht derivative. It doesn't supply testosterone or estrogen, but it suppresses them.