Experienced insulin users

[Piromanu87]

His ideea on only using it on high carbs days seems the best i have seen. I will try it in the future also.
By increasing insulin every high day with 1 unit for the same number of carbs, you can see what makes you go hypo and adjust.

 

[Para_33]

great post
so when your dieting, whats your carbs like around workout and slin dosage after workout ?

so for bulking would it be better to do pre and post and lower the dosage of slin to prevent going hypo and also enough to shuttle all carbs ?

or is it better to have that one big hit of insulin either before or after workout?

In general/ I shoot for 70g carbs in my pre workout meal and then 40-50 in my post workout meal.

If I do 3.5iu Pre workout of Regular R insulin IM or subQ than I will end up getting weak during my workout. I’ve gone to 2 iu and the same thing happened. So I now just skip the insulin Pre workout.

And instead I will do 3.5iu right post workout and even though I’m consuming only 50g carbs in my post meal, I still find I don’t go hypo because I’m not exerting myself as hard. Plus the other meals with protein and fat contribute so come blood sugar rise later in the night.

I’ve actually not got much experience with the Novolog/Humalog and I instead use the regular R Human Insulin. If taken IM it kicks in a bit quicker than subQ so I figure it’s somewhat similar to the Rapid types but just has a longer tail. It’s still an insulin made for bolus and not a basal insulin so it’s use case is the same as Novolog/Humalog.

I think bulking it would be better to experiment with pre workout use and see if it works for you. But it may not, and instead maybe use it earlier in the day like 2 meals before the workout instead of the last meal before the workout. It’s just more temperamental than other compounds and requires more tuning for different people, and often I’ll change around how I use it at different phases. It’s shifting pretty often. The idea is just use it to get the glycogen in quicker when I can benefit from it. But if it’s going to make me hypo, because I’m already in a primed state to suck up the sugar, then I see it as counter productive.

However, I also use R insulin for fat loss- don’t do this, but I will take .5-1IU IV immediately before jumping on the elliptical or recombinant bike fasted in the AM to deliberately send myself hypo, promote fat loss due to all the sugar being gone since glucagon will dump all the glycogen from the liver, and the insulin will shuttle that into the leg muscles to prevent leg atrophy during cardio. It works for fat loss and protecting muscle as well. Not for the faint of heart. This can literally kill you lol

 

[whoremoan1]

In general/ I shoot for 70g carbs in my pre workout meal and then 40-50 in my post workout meal.

If I do 3.5iu Pre workout of Regular R insulin IM or subQ than I will end up getting weak during my workout. I’ve gone to 2 iu and the same thing happened. So I now just skip the insulin Pre workout.

And instead I will do 3.5iu right post workout and even though I’m consuming only 50g carbs in my post meal, I still find I don’t go hypo because I’m not exerting myself as hard. Plus the other meals with protein and fat contribute so come blood sugar rise later in the night.

I’ve actually not got much experience with the Novolog/Humalog and I instead use the regular R Human Insulin. If taken IM it kicks in a bit quicker than subQ so I figure it’s somewhat similar to the Rapid types but just has a longer tail. It’s still an insulin made for bolus and not a basal insulin so it’s use case is the same as Novolog/Humalog.

I think bulking it would be better to experiment with pre workout use and see if it works for you. But it may not, and instead maybe use it earlier in the day like 2 meals before the workout instead of the last meal before the workout. It’s just more temperamental than other compounds and requires more tuning for different people, and often I’ll change around how I use it at different phases. It’s shifting pretty often. The idea is just use it to get the glycogen in quicker when I can benefit from it. But if it’s going to make me hypo, because I’m already in a primed state to suck up the sugar, then I see it as counter productive.

However, I also use R insulin for fat loss- don’t do this, but I will take .5-1IU IV immediately before jumping on the elliptical or recombinant bike fasted in the AM to deliberately send myself hypo, promote fat loss due to all the sugar being gone since glucagon will dump all the glycogen from the liver, and the insulin will shuttle that into the leg muscles to prevent leg atrophy during cardio. It works for fat loss and protecting muscle as well. Not for the faint of heart. This can literally kill you lol

amazing mass of info
thank you
ill keep this in mind when i use it
i will try pre workout possibly, if i do go hypo what are the steps you take to stop it ? e,g drink or eat sugar/simple carbs, sit down, wait 5 mins to see if drink or sugar has worked ? etc etc does it ruin the whole workout? do you continue training after feeling ok ?

also with the using it in diet i swear ive made myself go hypo without slin? theres been a few times when on stationary bike , i get cold and sweaty and crave food bad, feel like im going to throw up or faint and really dry mouth.... i usually just battle through it ... is this going hypo? lol is it possible to go hypo without slin ? (all my a1c levels are all perfect and insulin levels on blood work?)

 

[malfeasance]

However, I also use R insulin for fat loss- don’t do this, but I will take .5-1IU IV immediately before jumping on the elliptical or recombinant bike fasted in the AM to deliberately send myself hypo, promote fat loss due to all the sugar being gone since glucagon will dump all the glycogen from the liver, and the insulin will shuttle that into the leg muscles to prevent leg atrophy during cardio. It works for fat loss and protecting muscle as well. Not for the faint of heart. This can literally kill you lol

Now what gave you the idea to try that for the first time?

Do you really notice any difference in your cutting efforts doing this?

 

[Type-IIx]

Now what gave you the idea to try that for the first time?

Do you really notice any difference in your cutting efforts doing this?

It's bullshit, I'll be addressing this in an article on Insulin.

 

[Klimmzugernie]

I read here that ppl take Insulin with the pre workout meal. Nobody here who uses slin directly for the workout and drink intra work out carbs?

 

[Para_33]

It's bullshit, I'll be addressing this in an article on Insulin.

Have you Tried it ?

 

[Para_33]

Now what gave you the idea to try that for the first time?

Do you really notice any difference in your cutting efforts doing this?

It made sense to me when I first began thinking about insulin for bodybuilding purposes from my medical background. I was then thinking about how glucagon would be beneficial for fat loss.

When the body is in a glycogen depleted state, fat loss is more effective.

Glucagon works to serve exactly this fiction, to release glycogen from the liver into the blood for fuel.

However if you don’t have and emergency glucagon kit on hand, you can achieve this affect with rapid insulin, or actually even more safe would be to IV regular R human insulin because the effects can be timed almost to the second for a given person. There is no safe way to use this protocol, and I strongly suspect if someone had a lowered seizure threshold, an overly low sugar could trigger a seizure.

I took several weeks to even begin feeling the effect of hypo glycemia for the first time intentionally because I titrated up so slowly. Diluting 1 iu in BAC water and filling to 10iu and dumping out however many units, and building up 1/10th of an iu at a time, checking my bg in regular intervals.

All I can say is It ripped me up quick, and I’m exactly the same weight now when carb loaded and hydrated at 6-7% body fat as I was when I started 12 weeks ago at 15%. So essentially I recomped in a deficit.

Now I’m a smaller guy since I’m new to the life, I’m only 196lb at 6-7% nearly stage ready shape. So maybe a bigger guy wouldn’t have retained as well as I did. But this is comming off my 9 month offseason phase ramping up the dose and i started at 128lb. So 68 lb of stage weight. Gained in 9 months and retained all of it in my 3 month cut, maybe stacked a bit more too. I attribute a lot of that to my insulin use to be honest. I pushed insulin and diet hard from day one. I knew essentially exactly how to eat and how to use insulin to optimize my bulk and cut.

That’s my opinion, but I know other guys who use this same or similar protocol themselves and their athletes when they used to coach.

 

[Type-IIx]

It made sense to me when I first began thinking about insulin for bodybuilding purposes from my medical background. I was then thinking about how glucagon would be beneficial for fat loss.

When the body is in a glycogen depleted state, fat loss is more effective.

Glucagon works to serve exactly this fiction, to release glycogen from the liver into the blood for fuel.

However if you don’t have and emergency glucagon kit on hand, you can achieve this affect with rapid insulin, or actually even more safe would be to IV regular R human insulin because the effects can be timed almost to the second for a given person. There is no safe way to use this protocol, and I strongly suspect if someone had a lowered seizure threshold, an overly low sugar could trigger a seizure.

I took several weeks to even begin feeling the effect of hypo glycemia for the first time intentionally because I titrated up so slowly. Diluting 1 iu in BAC water and filling to 10iu and dumping out however many units, and building up 1/10th of an iu at a time, checking my bg in regular intervals.

All I can say is It ripped me up quick, and I’m exactly the same weight now when carb loaded and hydrated at 6-7% body fat as I was when I started 12 weeks ago at 15%. So essentially I recomped in a deficit.

Now I’m a smaller guy since I’m new to the life, I’m only 196lb at 6-7% nearly stage ready shape. So maybe a bigger guy wouldn’t have retained as well as I did. But this is comming off my 9 month offseason phase ramping up the dose and i started at 128lb. So 68 lb of stage weight. Gained in 9 months and retained all of it in my 3 month cut, maybe stacked a bit more too. I attribute a lot of that to my insulin use to be honest. I pushed insulin and diet hard from day one. I knew essentially exactly how to eat and how to use insulin to optimize my bulk and cut.

That’s my opinion, but I know other guys who use this same or similar protocol themselves and their athletes when they used to coach.

You readily belie your absolute lack of understanding of human physiology with all of your absurd claims on this board.

Again, like exogenous estrogens in bovid augmenting IGF-I (but opposite in man), glucagon is not lipolytic in man (unlike in rat, bird, rabbit) after exogenous insulin (not even at normal circulating insulin levels; insulin would have to be very low for glucagon to exert even a de minimis lipolytic effect in humans). The absurdity of your logic is further revealed by suggesting insulin to accomplish glycogen depletion.

Is your medical background in the veterinary field?

Have you Tried it ?

That's your reasoning? I need to do something absolutely counterproductive to decide whether it doesn't work?

 

[Para_33]

You readily belie your absolute lack of understanding of human physiology with all of your absurd claims on this board.

Again, like exogenous estrogens in bovid augmenting IGF-I (but opposite in man), glucagon is not lipolytic in man (unlike in rat, bird, rabbit) after exogenous insulin (not even at normal circulating insulin levels; insulin would have to be very low for glucagon to exert even a de minimis lipolytic effect in humans). The absurdity of your logic is further revealed by suggesting insulin to accomplish glycogen depletion.

Is your medical background in the veterinary field?



That's your reasoning? I need to do something absolutely counterproductive to decide whether it doesn't work?

I never said any of those things you claimed I did lol. Glucagon, lipolysis, where ? Glucagon and lipolysis ? That’s a theory some other people have, but I’ve never investigated it, so therefore I never mentioned it.

Lol. Ok insult me and get worked up over something I literally didn’t even come close to claiming

 

[Para_33]

amazing mass of info
thank you
ill keep this in mind when i use it
i will try pre workout possibly, if i do go hypo what are the steps you take to stop it ? e,g drink or eat sugar/simple carbs, sit down, wait 5 mins to see if drink or sugar has worked ? etc etc does it ruin the whole workout? do you continue training after feeling ok ?

also with the using it in diet i swear ive made myself go hypo without slin? theres been a few times when on stationary bike , i get cold and sweaty and crave food bad, feel like im going to throw up or faint and really dry mouth.... i usually just battle through it ... is this going hypo? lol is it possible to go hypo without slin ? (all my a1c levels are all perfect and insulin levels on blood work?)

It’s possibly to go hypo without insulin. Main thing I notice is just that food craving cold sweat and like a weakness/shakiness in the legs mainly.

If I get carbs in, the hypo feeling during a workout isn’t like the most intense hypo feeling, I can’t just tell I feel weaker and a bit of that shakiness, I don’t feel that that strong drive through the muscle as much when sugar is low.

Yea Gatorade would work even quicker than what I use, I use Carbolyn that I start drinking before I start lifting. I can usually get through it, by chugging the rest of my 50g drink of carbolyn, but it only restores me to baseline, and I don’t have the strongest workout ever, I just complete it and adjust my rep range up a little bit.

I suppose I could add a Gatorade on top and fix it Up even better, but I usually am in a cut when this happens, and I’m there just to maintain mass and burn fat; so I usually just get through it at 80% and just skip my dose accordingly next workout, or adjust pre workout carbs up higher if I can afford it- usually earlier on in prep when the calories are a bit higher.

 

[Type-IIx]

I never said any of those things you claimed I did lol. Glucagon, lipolysis, where ? Glucagon and lipolysis ? That’s a theory some other people have, but I’ve never investigated it, so therefore I never mentioned it.

Lol. Ok insult me and get worked up over something I literally didn’t even come close to claiming

You're pathological, so I am going to go ahead and suggest that:

I’m only 196lb at 6-7% nearly stage ready shape.

is bullshit also.

 

[Para_33]

You're pathological, so I am going to go ahead and suggest that:



is bullshit also.

Ok caught me im not 7%, it’s actually 8% I lied… . Since it’s so easy to measure exactly in a scientific way with tools everybody has at home. You know, liquifying the body and separating the density? Quite easy.

5’10 196lb 8% isn’t exactly what I’d call a “far fetched” mass monster lol. If I did this in my first year of bodybuilding, I’d assume it’s quite easy to achieve actually and I’m slightly disappointed I’m a bit fat to be called “stage ready”. But oh well. Do you consider that impressive or something lol ? Thank you. Genuinely pleasedI actually have pictures that are from months back. That even those will back up the only claim I made.


So you’re actually lying here:
You’re actually a liar- it’s quite easy to scroll a few lines above and see I didn’t edit anything, and didn’t say what your claiming.

Again:
-You said I claimed something I didn’t say- and your attacking me for that thing I didn’t even say. Quite strange.

I didn’t say I’m using insulin for a direct lipolysis effect. Didn’t say glucagon does either. So I fully have no actual idea why your full on fight clubbing yourself and fighting with a person not actually there - hallucinating things I didn’t say lol.

 

[Type-IIx]

Ok caught me im not 7%, it’s actually 8% I lied… . Since it’s so easy to measure exactly in a scientific way with tools everybody has at home. You know, liquifying the body and separating the density? Quite easy.

5’10 196lb 8% isn’t exactly what I’d call a “far fetched” mass monster lol. If I did this in my first year of bodybuilding, I’d assume it’s quite easy to achieve actually and I’m slightly disappointed I’m a bit fat to be called “stage ready”. But oh well. Do you consider that impressive or something lol ? Thank you. Genuinely pleasedI actually have pictures that are from months back. That even those will back up the only claim I made.


So you’re actually lying here:
You’re actually a liar- it’s quite easy to scroll a few lines above and see I didn’t edit anything, and didn’t say what your claiming.

Again:
-You said I claimed something I didn’t say- and your attacking me for that thing I didn’t even say. Quite strange.

I didn’t say I’m using insulin for a direct lipolysis effect. Didn’t say glucagon does either. So I fully have no actual idea why your full on fight clubbing yourself and fighting with a person not actually there - hallucinating things I didn’t say lol.

OK, I don't care whether you're bullshitting about your physique or whatever, some might.

Besides lipolysis, how might glucagon effect fat loss in humans? And then, how might exogenous slin achieve this (mediated by glucagon) in a manner comparable to glycogen depletion?

If you're not relying on the logic (a widespread misconception) that glucagon is lipolytic in man, I'm absolutely not following this post:

It made sense to me when I first began thinking about insulin for bodybuilding purposes from my medical background. I was then thinking about how glucagon would be beneficial for fat loss.

When the body is in a glycogen depleted state, fat loss is more effective.

Glucagon works to serve exactly this fiction, to release glycogen from the liver into the blood for fuel.

However if you don’t have and emergency glucagon kit on hand, you can achieve this affect with rapid insulin, or actually even more safe would be to IV regular R human insulin because the effects can be timed almost to the second for a given person. There is no safe way to use this protocol, and I strongly suspect if someone had a lowered seizure threshold, an overly low sugar could trigger a seizure.

I took several weeks to even begin feeling the effect of hypo glycemia for the first time intentionally because I titrated up so slowly. Diluting 1 iu in BAC water and filling to 10iu and dumping out however many units, and building up 1/10th of an iu at a time, checking my bg in regular intervals.

All I can say is It ripped me up quick, and I’m exactly the same weight now when carb loaded and hydrated at 6-7% body fat as I was when I started 12 weeks ago at 15%. So essentially I recomped in a deficit.

Now I’m a smaller guy since I’m new to the life, I’m only 196lb at 6-7% nearly stage ready shape. So maybe a bigger guy wouldn’t have retained as well as I did. But this is comming off my 9 month offseason phase ramping up the dose and i started at 128lb. So 68 lb of stage weight. Gained in 9 months and retained all of it in my 3 month cut, maybe stacked a bit more too. I attribute a lot of that to my insulin use to be honest. I pushed insulin and diet hard from day one. I knew essentially exactly how to eat and how to use insulin to optimize my bulk and cut.

That’s my opinion, but I know other guys who use this same or similar protocol themselves and their athletes when they used to coach.

Are you saying you intentionally induce hypoglycemia or something?

 

[Para_33]

OK, I don't care whether you're bullshitting about your physique or whatever, some might.

Besides lipolysis, how might glucagon effect fat loss in humans? And then, how might exogenous slin achieve this (mediated by glucagon) in a manner comparable to glycogen depletion?

If you're not relying on the logic (a widespread misconception) that glucagon is lipolytic in man, I'm absolutely not following this post:


Are you saying you intentionally induce hypoglycemia or something?

Yes, insulin intravenous to Intentionally induce hypoglycemia. It’s not something I recommend- it’s dangerous and stupid on paper I’ll admit. Nobody “should” ever do this. But it’s a risk that I personally tolerate in myself.

Hypoglycemia to Trigger glucagon to dump the glycogen from the liver,

-the depleted state of liver glycogen *indirectly* promotes more fat loss. I’m Not implying glucagon is increasing gluconeogenesis and directly stimulating fat loss and increasing energy production via FFAs.

So blood sugar then rises to compensate and then insulin is still present to prevent catabolism in the legs being used for cardio.

That’s the theory.

It does appear to be very affective for both myself and those that I’ve talked to who do use it.

 

[Type-IIx]

Yes, insulin intravenous to Intentionally induce hypoglycemia. It’s not something I recommend- it’s dangerous and stupid on paper I’ll admit. Nobody “should” ever do this. But it’s a risk that I personally tolerate in myself.

Hypoglycemia to Trigger glucagon to dump the glycogen from the liver,

-the depleted state of liver glycogen *indirectly* promotes more fat loss. I’m Not implying glucagon is increasing gluconeogenesis and directly stimulating fat loss and increasing energy production via FFAs.

So blood sugar then rises to compensate and then insulin is still present to prevent catabolism in the legs being used for cardio.

That’s the theory.

It does appear to be very affective for both myself and those that I’ve talked to who do use it.

You are a bona fide fucking retard.

 

[Para_33]

You are a bona fide fucking retard.

Thanks, you too.

 

[whoremoan1]

You are a bona fide fucking retard.

but why is he ? he is right about everything he is saying yes?
hes just crazy lol

 

[Diesel power]

At what cycle length do you guys run slin for ? 4 on 4 off ?

 

[Klimmzugernie]

5 days a week when I train. Same with HGH