Determining if I need TRT

[G0ld]

Most studies i see show the average man produces about 5-10 mg of T pure day. So at the median that means about 50mg/week for most guys.The body will use/breakdown every mg of T that is introduced naturally or from the outside. The only thing is how fast that happens.The amount enzyme that cleaves the ester from the test molecule varies from person to person. The more enzyme the faster it gets in and out of the blood stream. When i inject 100 mg TC which is actually about 70 mg of pure T minus the ester weight. I peak at around 1100 on a blood test 48 hours after i inject then am at just over 400 before the next injection 7 days post inject. And these are numbers from a steady state after weeks of injecting. Others will have higher of lower peaks and troughs depending on their own metabolism/enzyme production. When i inject the same weekly amount(100mg/week) but do daily injections of about 14-15 mg/day my numbers stay right around 800 day after day. Injection frequency has an impact just as dose does.

So, for a normal range testosterone, I need 50 milligrams a week, not 100? Because I came to the same conclusion before I saw you post, then your post confirmed it.

Okay so, I'm starting with 50 mg, and the dose will be slowly increased over time.

By the way, when you have 1,100 mg/dL, which is supra physiological, do you get any gynecomastia symptoms? Because I'm trying to figure out at what level (ng/dL) aromatization effects become powerful enough for nipple sensitivity and gynecomastia development to begin.

 

[clearheaded]

I will do it that way because I want to see how far I can go without AIs and to measure my aromatization rate.

AGAIN, this is a very bad reason to start test, to know ur rate of aromatization... what if E is out of range and u feel fine no gyno, good libido etc. would u take an AI? like this makes NO SENSE... perhaps some guys here can explain it better with more experience.

what if you have bad sides with an AI cant take it? what if you cant tolerate HCG as many guys cant? then all of a sudden u want kids which trust me things change as u get older. now u just have to wait it out with next to no natural test and just hope to god something kicks in, but because you started so young chances are lower... and all for what? like what is your goal other than knowing your aromatization rate all while increasing doses? (which again is not how it works, if crank up ur dose every 2-3 weeks or even a month you will never know).

You are barely allowed to drink booze shouldn't be wrecking your endocrine system. there is no easy fix.

you need more than a half life to do bloods if want accurate #.

AGIAN aromatization can vary day to day esp as exogenous test comes and goes. ie perhaps high 1 day a week but normal the rest.

If doing it for science you should take at least 2 more blood tests 3-4 weeks apart so have a baseline..

also should let us know what time of day you got your bloodwork done?

lol do you know how bad tamoxifen is for you? anyone who had a stroke in your family? and do you know the difference between AI and SERM? take more drugs for liver damage and eye damage? what about the HBP? more meds for that no big deal? you want to be 32 and on 5-6 meds?

Just trust me man, my dads buddy was a juicer BB not crazy crazy but did a couple local shows and cooled off after my buddies brother was born, did more cardio, ie very visible less huge and scary guy... well he was a smart guy obv did things modestly(after his BB) and went to DR all the time.. he died when we were in grade 8... no second chance after that heart attack he was 37yo, he was a "health nut" ate clean, and really was focusing on heart health, but he started when was young and slowed down(just appearance wise would seem that way) after his kids so late 20s early 30s...

again, other friends did 1 cycle randomly early 20s and said it took 4-5 years to feel normal... this is not uncommon.

BE A MAN and see how far you can get WITHOUT T your body will thank you.. I mean dudes just naturally get bigger into mid 30s, so if skinny it will come perhaps slowly, but you will have stronger tendons etc so you won't be injured all the time like guys who get juiced up WAY to fast and when WAAY to young as body needs time to catch up.

anyhoo, you came for advice, many people are giving you advice, yet you are not listening to them, and this is a STEROID forum... just think about that.. a place where guys don't give a fuck about steroid use and users are telling you to RETHINK what you are doing.

take some high dose zinc and maybe cycle some ashwaganda, wait a few months and do another blood test see where you are..

WHAT TIME DID U GET YOUR BLOOD DRAWN?

 

[clearheaded]

By the way, when you have 1,100 mg/dL, which is supra physiological, do you get any gynecomastia symptoms? Because I'm trying to figure out at what level (ng/dL) aromatization effects become powerful enough for nipple sensitivity and gynecomastia development to begin.

this is not how it works... there is not a magic # of E you get nipple issues. nor is there a level of T you automatically get high E never mind high E symptoms.

you need to read more man... please dont self administer TRT.

before you inject anything you should get a couple more blood tests.. not only for your T but also other blood markers. ie full work up.

what is your goal man? you feel good? your getting stronger no? PROMISE most gym rats in there 20s stop going even though plan to go forever. your going to give yourself far more problems man.

I think the major issue here is folks hear old guys saying oh man TRT is so great turned my life around (even though just as many old guys struggled with TRT and quite because its not as simple as T and E), im far more healthy now etc etc... so than these young guys think well if makes some old guys feel better ill be even better..

I dont think you can grasp side effects esp when keep raising dosage for no real reason it sounds like. chances are your libido will suffer, your balls will shrink, you will suffer issues with mood.. its more than just figuring out how much you aromatize. you will undoubtedly shorten your life and make your life FAR more harder and again for what appears no other reason than to know your aromatization rate...

 

[Jin23]

sorry I should of mentioned that is with ester removed ie 6mg-7mg of test no ester a day or around 70mg of cyp or 10mg of cyp if I am not mistaken..

I do think it prob takes more brut force test levels when you shut off your AXIS to make up for loss of other 'hormones'. but that is just a guess.

The gonadal steroidogenesis ... sure, but, that's mostly progesterone,17-OHP, some androstenedione and hcg also increases arometase expression. DHEA is mostly produced in the adrenal cortex, so having the gonads shut down isn't such a huge factor. A lot of neurosteroids are also produced in local tissues, so imo the gonads being shut down isn't such a big factor in regards to the myriad of other steroids floating around. However progesterone is quite relevant on it's own and as a precursor to other steroids, CNS health in particular the myelination of neurons and repair of myelin sheets. It's also a gaba and a sigma 1 agonist among others, and it converts to a host of other steroids including allopregnanolone which is an important allosteric gaba agonist, ... I'm starting to ramble ...

 

[buck]

So, for a normal range testosterone, I need 50 milligrams a week, not 100? Because I came to the same conclusion before I saw you post, then your post confirmed it.

Okay so, I'm starting with 50 mg, and the dose will be slowly increased over time.

By the way, when you have 1,100 mg/dL, which is supra physiological, do you get any gynecomastia symptoms? Because I'm trying to figure out at what level (ng/dL) aromatization effects become powerful enough for nipple sensitivity and gynecomastia development to begin.

It is not the T level that directly cause gyno. It is the E2 levels which is a byproduct of testosterone. Some people get gyno at normal hormone levels others have very high levels long term with no issue. There i s no number that anyone can say is the number to not go beyond when talking of getting gyno. Normal T and E2 is generally considered safe but no guarantee. After about 25 years of TRT and cycles i have had zero gyno symptoms' even with very high E2 levels. .

 

[clearheaded]

The gonadal steroidogenesis ... sure, but, that's mostly progesterone,17-OHP, some androstenedione and hcg also increases arometase expression. DHEA is mostly produced in the adrenal cortex, so having the gonads shut down isn't such a huge factor. A lot of neurosteroids are also produced in local tissues, so imo the gonads being shut down isn't such a big factor in regards to the myriad of other steroids floating around. However progesterone is quite relevant on it's own and as a precursor to other steroids, CNS health in particular the myelination of neurons and repair of myelin sheets. It's also a gaba and a sigma 1 agonist among others, and it converts to a host of other steroids including allopregnanolone which is an important allosteric gaba agonist, ... I'm starting to ramble ...

yes test is also produced other places besides gonads(re adrenals), but would you not say when LH is suppressed from exogenous T, than DHEA just for an example would be lowered? ie when on TRT or blasting it will lower other neurosteroids. perhaps not 100% gone as your saying as produced independent of LH aswell...

I guess my point is there is more to it than just T and E as the OP makes it seem. ie taking test will shut down LH lower your DHEA (as 1 example as myriad of others and 'subtypes'). seems like he thinks blood markers are the only things we need to focus on, while we need to acknowledge its just markers or clues and tiny snippet of info. ESP when talking hormones as fluctuate so much ie may have test levels of 900 if took another blood test at a different time.

 

[Jin23]

yes test is also produced other places besides gonads(re adrenals), but would you not say when LH is suppressed from exogenous T, than DHEA just for an example would be lowered? ie when on TRT or blasting it will lower other neurosteroids. perhaps not 100% gone as your saying as produced independent of LH aswell...

Was not talking about test but other steroids being locally produced. I was talking about your paragraph: "for loss of other 'hormones".

No, DHEA doesn't get significantly lowered. As I said in my above post, most of it is synthesized in the adrenal cortex.

OP is trying to be a jacked influencer. He explained so in one of his posts. That's why he's going on aas.

 

[DECLAN]

I don't have wife or gf, so frozen sperm is not needed.

I'm not genetically predisposed to baldness.

As for gynecomastia, I will use tamoxifen.

Are you planning to be single forever? That is what everyone said then when the right woman comes along, they are now scrambling to wake up their testes lol, you can check out the fertility logs.

Good luck with the hair then lol. You won’t know till you have dht conversion.

what’s your blood pressure now? That’s the number one thing you should be looking at and it’s the easiest to control. However, it is one if not the most ignored by bodybuilders. Get your bp machine and meds ready.

 

[Fattyone]

OP is trying to be a jacked influencer. He explained so in one of his posts. That's why he's going on aas.

JUST what this world needs more of. I’ll informed people pushing their terrible advice all for the sake of likes.

 

[G0ld]

Are you planning to be single forever? That is what everyone said then when the right woman comes along, they are now scrambling to wake up their testes lol, you can check out the fertility logs.

Good luck with the hair then lol. You won’t know till you have dht conversion.

what’s your blood pressure now? That’s the number one thing you should be looking at and it’s the easiest to control. However, it is one if not the most ignored by bodybuilders. Get your bp machine and meds ready.

I will never have a relationship, because I'm socially incompatible. There is no "right woman" for me.

Don't ask more questions, I know what I'm talking about.

The only women I will ever have something with are the type of women Andrew Tate engages; basically, prostitutes.

As for my blood pressure, yes, I'm aware of the increase in red blood cells count during steroid cycle, and I know I will have to keep check on my blood pressure.

I have tested my blood pressure many times over the years, and it's always within normal range.

 

[G0ld]

OP is trying to be a jacked influencer. He explained so in one of his posts. That's why he's going on aas.

I never said this.

What I said was that I want to be like someone, but I didn't say I want to be influencer.

 

[G0ld]

AGAIN, this is a very bad reason to start test, to know ur rate of aromatization... what if E is out of range and u feel fine no gyno, good libido etc. would u take an AI? like this makes NO SENSE... perhaps some guys here can explain it better with more experience.

I will test my estrogen and estradiol before the TRT, and during the TRT, and later I will also test tem before and after I increase the dose.

Even if no typical high-estrogen symptoms are present while estrogen is high, AIs should still be taken, because high estrogen can cause problems with prostate enlargement, which is an asymptomatic problem.

 

[DECLAN]

I will never have a relationship, because I'm socially incompatible. There is no "right woman" for me.

Don't ask more questions, I know what I'm talking about.

The only women I will ever have something with are the type of women Andrew Tate engages; basically, prostitutes.

As for my blood pressure, yes, I'm aware of the increase in red blood cells count during steroid cycle, and I know I will have to keep check on my blood pressure.

I have tested my blood pressure many times over the years, and it's always within normal range.

Ahhh that explains it. Enough said. Moving on.

 

[warlockandrogen]

The only women I will ever have something with are the type of women Andrew Tate engages; basically, prostitutes.

this is the reason why you need TRT at 23... you choose to live and think like a loser.

what you need, is a lifestyle which signal your balls to make more testosterone. use it or lose it.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'm socially incompatible

I can tell

 

[clearheaded]

Was not talking about test but other steroids being locally produced. I was talking about your paragraph: "for loss of other 'hormones".

No, DHEA doesn't get significantly lowered. As I said in my above post, most of it is synthesized in the adrenal cortex.

OP is trying to be a jacked influencer. He explained so in one of his posts. That's why he's going on aas.

do you have a paper on that? as HCG an analog of LH produces more DHEA I know that... so I assume less LH you have the less DHEA.... I have only found ladies studies with LH and DHEA... but of course we need to be careful as DHEA could be lowered because of production of other hormones theoretically, ie the bottleneck.

LH also increases adrenal testosterone not just testicular, correct?

 

[G0ld]

this is the reason why you need TRT at 23... you choose to live and think like a loser.

what you need, is a lifestyle which signal your balls to make more testosterone. use it or lose it.

My balls already make enough testosterone; my testosterone levels are within normal range, which was proven by the blood test I did a month ago.

As for the reason, I said it won't be TRT. It will start as a TRT so I can see how my body reacts. Then the dose will be slowly increased over time, with blood tests done after each increase. That way I will measure my aromatization rate and see how far I can go without AIs.

The method will also allow me to see WHEN EXACTLY to start AIs. Starting AIs earlier when estrogen is within normal range can crash the level, resulting in terrible side effects.

 

[G0ld]

I can tell

How?

 

[Jin23]

do you have a paper on that? as HCG an analog of LH produces more DHEA I know that... so I assume less LH you have the less DHEA.... I have only found ladies studies with LH and DHEA... but of course we need to be careful as DHEA could be lowered because of production of other hormones theoretically, ie the bottleneck.

LH also increases adrenal testosterone not just testicular, correct?

Off course there's papers about it.

Gonadotropins have only a very marginal effect on kidney steroidogenesis. Not many LH receptors there (in the adrenal cortex) and it's why dhea doesn't drop so much on trt.

 

[MrUniverse]

When a group of people uses a specific synthetic testosterone dose, for example, 100 milligrams, different people will get different results (T levels ; ng/dL), since metabolization rate vary.

But it doesn't matter how good you metabolization rate is, there is a specific T level you can never surpass, since any finite dose can provide only a finite amount of testosterone.

A single milligram of T can give different levels (ng/dL) to different people, but there is a specific upper limit the dose can't surpass, no matter how potent the person's metabolism is.

U wrote that your body produces testosterone starting from the testosterone you inject, did I get it right?