Desperate for your advice. Testosterone causing moon face at any dose.

[CaptainAll]

As @Type-IIx said many times, Test is absolutely the best compound one can take to gain substantial muscle mass and feel well.

The issue I have is simple. I cannot take any dose of testosterone without having a horrible moon face and water retention which starts messing with my head and makes me stop bulking and taking testosterone altogether. I cannot see myself fat faced and by no means am I fat or have high body fat percentage. I am very lean naturally with a skinny looking face. Any time I take test, I look like puffed fish.

That is despite taking AI, telmisartan etc. so it is not estrogen related.

What options do I have? What can you recommend I can do to continue training and getting bigger while not bloating/puffing up like this? Please, help me.

 

[callisto]

if youre not already taking a short estered version of test (acetate/propionate) and injecting ed, do that.

if even that is not working, and you dont believe the problem is diet, bodyfat or elsewhere related, that could effect water retention, look onto hctz

 

[Type-IIx]

As @Type-IIx said many times, Test is absolutely the best compound one can take to gain substantial muscle mass and feel well.

The issue I have is simple. I cannot take any dose of testosterone without having a horrible moon face and water retention which starts messing with my head and makes me stop bulking and taking testosterone altogether. I cannot see myself fat faced and by no means am I fat or have high body fat percentage. I am very lean naturally with a skinny looking face. Any time I take test, I look like puffed fish.

That is despite taking AI, telmisartan etc. so it is not estrogen related.

What options do I have? What can you recommend I can do to continue training and getting bigger while not bloating/puffing up like this? Please, help me.

Have you measured E2 after using the AI? Dialed it in?

Because it kind of has to be E2, which increases fluid intake through regulating thirst, regulates the RAAS upstream of an ACE inhibitor/ARB, is the only factor fairly traceable to T & edema, etc.

 

[lukiss96]

It is what it is unfortunately, I hate my face at 400-600mg weekly. I like it at 150 and maybe max 200mg. I think it's normal. Your face does change with Testosterone dosage.

You remind me of myself, some years ago I was constantly afraid of bulking and any time I put on any water due to increased calories I would abort my bulking and return to cutting.

Anabolic steroids do change your face, some may not notice it, I myself didn't mind and not noticed, but my female partners did.

Honestly, I believe if you want a chiseled face (as gay as it sounds on a steroid forum) then your best bet is to keep Testosterone at 150-250mg and add dht, equipoise or tren and avoid deca and high test.

I look my best body and face wise on true TRT dosage or at 250mg maximum.

P.S. I have to say, I don't recommend you anything and certainly not a trenbolone cycle to improve your face. Just my observation and what I and others around me noticed. Do it at your own risk.

 

[CaptainAll]

Have you measured E2 after using the AI? Dialed it in?

Because it kind of has to be E2, which increases fluid intake through regulating thirst, regulates the RAAS upstream of an ACE inhibitor/ARB, is the only factor fairly traceable to T & edema, etc.

Thank you for replying to my thread, really grateful. Not sure if I have ever dialed it in to be honest. But bloodwork did show estrogen at around 25 pico many times.

I wish I could make it all work. I am really aspiring to get results, but that is a huge issue I am facing.

 

[CaptainAll]

It is what it is unfortunately, I hate my face at 400-600mg weekly. I like it at 150 and maybe max 200mg. I think it's normal. Your face does change with Testosterone dosage.

You remind me of myself, some years ago I was constantly afraid of bulking and any time I put on any water due to increased calories I would abort my bulking and return to cutting.

Anabolic steroids do change your face, some may not notice it, I myself didn't mind and not noticed, but my female partners did.

Honestly, I believe if you want a chiseled face (as gay as it sounds on a steroid forum) then your best bet is to keep Testosterone at 150-250mg and add dht, equipoise or tren and avoid deca and high test.

I look my best body and face wise on true TRT dosage or at 250mg maximum.

P.S. I have to say, I don't recommend you anything and certainly not a trenbolone cycle to improve your face. Just my observation and what I and others around me noticed. Do it at your own risk.

Thank you for sharing your own experience with the same issue you had. Sometimes I just think of shutting up and just grinding through this process. But the stuff seriously messes with you. And being on a steroid forum, there is no place for all that aesthetics aspiration, absolutely. But sometimes, you just feel like a puffer fish and worst is people commenting on this too, despite the size you are gaining and the increasing strength.

 

[CaptainAll]

if youre not already taking a short estered version of test (acetate/propionate) and injecting ed, do that.

if even that is not working, and you dont believe the problem is diet, bodyfat or elsewhere related, that could effect water retention, look onto hctz

I have heard about hctz or eplerenone as remedies. Just not something I think is healthy to be using all the time. I can be wrong.

 

[anabolicperro]

What’s your current blood pressure?
Telmi don’t lower bp for everyone
How often are you pinning ?

 

[ManK]

It is what it is unfortunately, I hate my face at 400-600mg weekly. I like it at 150 and maybe max 200mg. I think it's normal. Your face does change with Testosterone dosage.

You remind me of myself, some years ago I was constantly afraid of bulking and any time I put on any water due to increased calories I would abort my bulking and return to cutting.

Anabolic steroids do change your face, some may not notice it, I myself didn't mind and not noticed, but my female partners did.

Honestly, I believe if you want a chiseled face (as gay as it sounds on a steroid forum) then your best bet is to keep Testosterone at 150-250mg and add dht, equipoise or tren and avoid deca and high test.

I look my best body and face wise on true TRT dosage or at 250mg maximum.

P.S. I have to say, I don't recommend you anything and certainly not a trenbolone cycle to improve your face. Just my observation and what I and others around me noticed. Do it at your own risk.

I'm sorry, on the other hand you've all become AI phobic on this forum

 

[1a6rnner]

What's topical diet look like? Breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks, alcohol etc? Most bloat can be mitigated by diet choices as well.

 

[lukiss96]

I'm sorry, on the other hand you've all become AI phobic on this forum

I don't know how it relates to me. In fact I use anastrozole from time to time based on my symptoms, I don't advise that and perhaps some people could even attack me for dosing by my symptoms, but hell it works for me.

I believe there was a trend some years ago to go zero AI and that you need to power trough that period for your body to find the balance. I never found that balance to be honest, along the way I learned to dose it right for me, so it helped me lay off standard internet presrcribed dose of AI.

So, basically I'm neutral when it comes to aromatase inhibitors. I'm probably against predetermined dosing if anything. I just say - if you don't need it, don't use it or don't fix what ain't broke.

 

[Type-IIx]

Thank you for replying to my thread, really grateful. Not sure if I have ever dialed it in to be honest. But bloodwork did show estrogen at around 25 pico many times.

I wish I could make it all work. I am really aspiring to get results, but that is a huge issue I am facing.

Try that first if you are dead-set on Test (high/moderately-high) solo, or high/very-high Test in combination with "dry" compounds, because you need to dial in E2 or you're running basically blind, especially when so sensitive to these cosmetic changes.

I remember walking around with a pumpkin-head before I got things dialed in, took some time and work, and my girlfriend at the time could always tell immediately, "you're on test, you have test (moon) face." I thought I looked great.

It is what it is unfortunately, I hate my face at 400-600mg weekly. I like it at 150 and maybe max 200mg. I think it's normal. Your face does change with Testosterone dosage.

You remind me of myself, some years ago I was constantly afraid of bulking and any time I put on any water due to increased calories I would abort my bulking and return to cutting.

Anabolic steroids do change your face, some may not notice it, I myself didn't mind and not noticed, but my female partners did.

Honestly, I believe if you want a chiseled face (as gay as it sounds on a steroid forum) then your best bet is to keep Testosterone at 150-250mg and add dht, equipoise or tren and avoid deca and high test.

I look my best body and face wise on true TRT dosage or at 250mg maximum.

P.S. I have to say, I don't recommend you anything and certainly not a trenbolone cycle to improve your face. Just my observation and what I and others around me noticed. Do it at your own risk.

I agree that Tren gives a chiseled feature to the face. I see it clearly in photos where I was using it.

 

[Type-IIx]

I don't know how it relates to me. In fact I use anastrozole from time to time based on my symptoms, I don't advise that and perhaps some people could even attack me for dosing by my symptoms, but hell it works for me.

I believe there was a trend some years ago to go zero AI and that you need to power trough that period for your body to find the balance. I never found that balance to be honest, along the way I learned to dose it right for me, so it helped me lay off standard internet presrcribed dose of AI.

So, basically I'm neutral when it comes to aromatase inhibitors. I'm probably against predetermined dosing if anything. I just say - if you don't need it, don't use it or don't fix what ain't broke.

I didn't think it related to you either (probably misclicked Quote/Reply or something), but I agree with his general observation & sentiment.

 

[Ss99]

Try that first if you are dead-set on Test (high/moderately-high) solo, or high/very-high Test in combination with "dry" compounds, because you need to dial in E2 or you're running basically blind, especially when so sensitive to these cosmetic changes.

I remember walking around with a pumpkin-head before I got things dialed in, took some time and work, and my girlfriend at the time could always tell immediately, "you're on test, you have test (moon) face." I thought I looked great.

I agree that Tren gives a chiseled feature to the face. I see it clearly in photos where I was using it.

Agreed on the facial changes Tren brings, it makes me cringe even typing this but I do look more ‘masculine’ in the photos taken of me where I was using it, even at low dosages, yet at the same time I didn’t appear unhealthy and haggard as I did at another point in time running moderate-high Test with my estrogen in the ground from Anastrozole.

It makes me wonder what at the receptor level is happening there and why I could notice the subtleties, although I have my guesses (interactions with the AR, ER & PR). I remember everyone from my coworkers to my own mother asking me towards the latter end of the test experiment why I had appeared to age ten years in the space of a few months.

I have noticed overtime though that each androgen has a dosage threshold after which facial changes become quite noticeable and reducing estrogen & use of an ARB does very little to counteract the effect. Perhaps it is the MR receptor agonism, only further potentiated by increasing 11HSD2 inhibition with escalating dosages?

In my own case Testosterone and the oral 17a DHT-derivatives have been the worst culprits for me in the past, with Anavar, funnily enough, being the worst in this regard.

 

[Ss99]

@Type-IIx

Out of curiosity what could be causing me to see quite profound beneficial changes in what I believe is estrogen induced facial fluid retention with Anastrozole, alongside low-ish dosages of Testosterone, yet very subdued effects in this regard from exemestane at equivalent dosages?

I’ve noticed this for a long time and despite having read much of the literature surrounding both compounds, I’ve never been able to narrow it down. Exemestane will also drastically reduce my muscular fullness at the same time, yet I don’t get the physical side effects low E2 from Anastrozole brings in terms of effects on my skin, hair & joints. If I had to hazard a guess, is it that pesky 17b-hydroxy-exemestane metabolite to blame here?

I currently have some raws ordered so I can trial fine tuning the dosages to see if daily dosing the drug can negate that quite odd effect.

 

[lonewolf54321]

As @Type-IIx said many times, Test is absolutely the best compound one can take to gain substantial muscle mass and feel well.

The issue I have is simple. I cannot take any dose of testosterone without having a horrible moon face and water retention which starts messing with my head and makes me stop bulking and taking testosterone altogether. I cannot see myself fat faced and by no means am I fat or have high body fat percentage. I am very lean naturally with a skinny looking face. Any time I take test, I look like puffed fish.

That is despite taking AI, telmisartan etc. so it is not estrogen related.

What options do I have? What can you recommend I can do to continue training and getting bigger while not bloating/puffing up like this? Please, help me.

Dandelion root extract works well on me for water retention. I had horrible moon face and it disappeared after a week of taking the Dandelion root.

 

[Juicedhead]

it has to be from e2. Maybe try a diuretic but I cant say much more about them because i dont know anything about diuretics. Def get your e2 and ai dosage more dialed in. Its odd if youre lean to have that bad of moon face. Could be sodium is too high as well.

 

[CaptainAll]

Try that first if you are dead-set on Test (high/moderately-high) solo, or high/very-high Test in combination with "dry" compounds, because you need to dial in E2 or you're running basically blind, especially when so sensitive to these cosmetic changes.

I remember walking around with a pumpkin-head before I got things dialed in, took some time and work, and my girlfriend at the time could always tell immediately, "you're on test, you have test (moon) face." I thought I looked great.

I agree that Tren gives a chiseled feature to the face. I see it clearly in photos where I was using it.

Thank you @Type-IIx. Pumpkin-head is not something anyone would want .

I am planning to try and run test only at around 750mg-1000mg per week. Will definitely try and use the AI again and will stick with Arimidex this time. I know there is no cookie cutter advice that can be given, but for such a test dosage, will 0.5mg Arimidex EOD suffice?

Because of this issue with test, I was thinking of running primobolan and Anadrol along with an HCG base. But I know that this is a utopia. With Anadrol being toxic, I will not be able to run it more than 8 weeks.

 

[1a6rnner]

Thank you @Type-IIx. Pumpkin-head is not something anyone would want .

I am planning to try and run test only at around 750mg-1000mg per week. Will definitely try and use the AI again and will stick with Arimidex this time. I know there is no cookie cutter advice that can be given, but for such a test dosage, will 0.5mg Arimidex EOD suffice?

Because of this issue with test, I was thinking of running primobolan and Anadrol along with an HCG base. But I know that this is a utopia. With Anadrol being toxic, I will not be able to run it more than 8 weeks.

Just stick with the high test and Primo at a1:1. Don't do the Anadrol yet as this can show high estrogen as well, you won't be able to tell which compound is going which symptoms. Do one and Test. 4-5 weeks, blood test, not "it feels like" then you can adjust up or down.

 

[CaptainAll]

Just stick with the high test and Primo at a1:1. Don't do the Anadrol yet as this can show high estrogen as well, you won't be able to tell which compound is going which symptoms. Do one and Test. 4-5 weeks, blood test, not "it feels like" then you can adjust up or down.

Thank you man! Only reason why I wanted to exclude test is because of the puffer fish look it gave me every time I went on it. Strangely, never had any issues with Anadrol in terms of water retention (except upset stomach). And I get all my Rimobolan and Anapolon from Turkish pharmacies. So it is all real.