GH not anabolic in young men in low (2-5iu) doses. 5+ research articles+

[malfeasance]

Growth Hormone with and without steroids and placebo, too, in elderly men and women. What happens?

Growth hormone and sex steroid administration in healthy aged women and men: a randomized controlled trial - PubMed

In this study, GH with or without sex steroids in healthy, aged women and men increased LBM and decreased fat mass. Sex steroid + GH increased muscle strength marginally and VO( 2)max in men, but women had no significant change in strength or cardiovascular endurance. Because adverse effects...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Fat mass decreased significantly in the GH and GH + HRT groups. In men, LBM increased by 0.1 kg with placebo, 1.4 kg with testosterone (P =.06), 3.1 kg with GH (P<.001), and 4.3 kg with GH + testosterone (P<.001). Fat mass decreased significantly with GH and GH + testosterone. Women's strength decreased in the placebo group and increased nonsignificantly with HRT (P =.09), GH (P =.29), and GH + HRT (P =.14). Men's strength also did not increase significantly except for a marginally significant increase of 13.5 kg with GH + testosterone (P =.05)."

VO2 max increased in the men on testosterone and growth hormone, too. Note that this was not combined with training.

Maybe somebody should do a study just like the one above, but triple the size with groups that are also doing weight training and weight training plus cardio.

 

[RandGuy]

Cuanto es baja, moderada y alta.
Un poco más de información, gracias

"How much is low, moderate, and high? A little more information, thanks."

From this forum and other sources, it appears that typical human range of hGH production is between >4 (adolescent) to <0.5 (elderly) IU/day (where IU = 3x mg hGH). So, in elderly, with baseline IGF-1 < 100 ng/ml (indicative of low hGH production), something like 1-2 IU/d, typically injected at night, or 2x that every other day, titrated to an IGF-1 target > 100 ng/ml, should be enough for anti-aging purposes - something we're testing at the moment, having been dissatisfied with Ibutamoren and CJC-1295 DAC in the past.

(& managing BG [diabetes risk] and HRT [T & E2] independently)

 

[malfeasance]

athralgias = joint pain.

I noted in another thread when somebody was asking about hgh for hurting joints that I actually experience more joint pain when injecting hgh than without. A few others chimed in to agree.

 

[Monksterbate714]

What is confirmation bias again? If you are looking to make your point you will find the studies to fit your narrative. HGH has a long history of meaningful use in the body building world. This kind of devils advocacy to get a rise out of people is silly.

 

[explodingHeart]

Worth it for this alone?

Hell if I know. I did about 2 years of QSC GH ranging from 5 iu to 10 iu.

Like everyone else I gained a bunch of water and thought it was growing my feet / hands / face, but after I got peeled all that shit went away.

I can't say it did much as my average dose of testosterone was basically 200-300mg.

Healthy elderly subjects who inject hgh are leaner.

"In participants treated with GH compared with those not treated with GH, overall fat mass decreased (change in fat mass, -2.1 kg [95% CI, -2.8 to -1.35] and overall lean body mass increased (change in lean body mass, 2.1 kg [CI, 1.3 to 2.9]) (P < 0.001), and their weight did not change significantly (change in weight, 0.1 kg [CI, -0.7 to 0.8]; P = 0.87). Total cholesterol levels decreased (change in cholesterol, -0.29 mmol/L [-11.21 mg/dL]; P = 0.006), although not significantly after adjustment for body composition changes. Other outcomes, including bone density and other serum lipid levels, did not change. Persons treated with GH were significantly more likely to experience soft tissue edema, arthralgias, carpal tunnel syndrome, and gynecomastia and were somewhat more likely to experience the onset of diabetes mellitus and impaired fasting glucose."

Systematic review: the safety and efficacy of growth hormone in the healthy elderly - PubMed

The literature published on randomized, controlled trials evaluating GH therapy in the healthy elderly is limited but suggests that it is associated with small changes in body composition and increased rates of adverse events. On the basis of this evidence, GH cannot be recommended as an...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Exactly, my guess is if it helps, it's mainly in the eldery.

 

[explodingHeart]

What is confirmation bias again? If you are looking to make your point you will find the studies to fit your narrative. HGH has a long history of meaningful use in the body building world. This kind of devils advocacy to get a rise out of people is silly.

Bro I really don't give a shit either way. I'm not a competitive bodybuilder. I used a fair amount of it anyway just to try it out.

 

[brutalbuilt]

No human studies have conclusively proven muscle fiber hyperplasia from rHGH.

its literally in the serostim package dummy... stop talking out your ass

 

[KOArtist]

Well son of a bitch, I have at least 2000iu, but fuck it, gonna trash it now

 

[malfeasance]

Exactly, my guess is if it helps, it's mainly in the eldery.

But the "elderly" was only one of my posts with fat loss acceleration studies.

 

[malfeasance]

"GH treatment caused a 1.6-fold increase in the fraction of body weight lost as fat and a greater loss of visceral fat area than placebo treatment . . ."

That quote does not come from a study of elderly.

 

[DugPrime]

its literally in the serostim package dummy... stop talking out your ass

Link any study or stfu.

 

[brutalbuilt]

Link any study or stfu.

how about you buy a kit of serostim... oh wait never mind you a broke bitch

 

[DugPrime]

how about you buy a kit of serostim... oh wait never mind you a broke bitch

You're getting more and more ridiculous by the day. You would know it if you asked your only friend, ChatGPT.

 

[songsofpyramids]

View attachment 325419
View attachment 325420

You're getting more and more ridiculous by the day. You would know it if you asked your only friend, ChatGPT.

I believe you are correct there is little direct science showing hyperplasia, and none in humans, but plenty of theory suggesting hyperplasia.

Goldspink, G. et al., 1996 – Muscle Growth in Response to Mechanical Stimuli and Hormones.

The above study shows hypertrophy and hyperplasia in rats on hgh. I think that’s the best direct evidence there is, and a rat study sucks.

 

[brutalbuilt]

View attachment 325419
View attachment 325420

You're getting more and more ridiculous by the day. You would know it if you asked your only friend, ChatGPT.

they did clinical trials with aids patients showing 18iu caused hyperplasia... if you read the inserts in the serostim package it shows this dumb fuck... thats why 18iu is prescribed to aids patients by doctors

 

[DugPrime]

they did clinical trials with aids patients showing 18iu caused hyperplasia... if you read the inserts in the serostim package it shows this dumb fuck... thats why 18iu is prescribed to aids patients by doctors

I asked for a link. If you can't provide it, then shut your mouth. Nobody cares about your personal opinion.

 

[bananafeet]

Sorry for the ChatGPT spam. I used the deep search feature:


Local vs Systemic IGF-1 and Muscle Hypertrophy: Summary


Local production of IGF-1 in skeletal muscle has been shown to be far more anabolic than systemic (circulating) IGF-1. Research in transgenic mice supports this:


Muscle-specific IGF-1 expression (mIGF-1) leads to dramatic muscle hypertrophy and regeneration, even in the absence of systemic elevation of IGF-1.


In contrast, high levels of systemic IGF-1 mainly cause organ growth, water retention, and only modest muscle growth.


One model even showed that forcing muscle-derived IGF-1 to enter circulation led to no hypertrophy at all, despite very high blood levels of IGF-1.



This suggests that unanchored IGF-1 in the blood isn’t efficiently used by skeletal muscle. The muscle likely needs to produce IGF-1 locally in response to mechanical load or anabolic signaling for it to effectively stimulate growth.


Researchers also speculate that chronically elevated systemic IGF-1 triggers negative feedback:


It may suppress the muscle’s own IGF-1 production Or cause IGF-1 receptor downregulation.


In vitro studies show that muscle cells exposed to excess IGF-1 reduce their IGF-1 mRNA expression as a self-regulatory mechanism

Bottom line:

IGF-1 works best when it’s produced inside the muscle in response to a real hypertrophic trigger—like mechanical loading or androgens.

This also explains why exogenous GH or IGF-1 works best when paired with training, to simulate the natural spike in IGF-1 that happens post-exercise.

1. Musarò et al. (2001) – Local IGF-1 expression induces hypertrophy:

https://www.nature.com/articles/ng0201_195.pdf

2. Barton-Davis et al. (1998) – Systemic IGF-1 vs. local effect:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002944010623826


3. IGF-1 feedback regulation in muscle cells (in vitro):

https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4409/9/9/1970

 

[brutalbuilt]

I asked for a link. If you can't provide it, then shut your mouth. Nobody cares about your personal opinion.

there is no link its in the package dip shit and its not an opinion i fucking read it.. your broke ass would know if you could afford serostim

 

[songsofpyramids]

there is no link its in the package dip shit and its not an opinion i fucking read it.. your broke ass would know if you could afford serostim

I’ve done a little sero and I don’t remember anything about hyperplasia in the insert, so I found the insert online and can’t find anything about hyperplasia.

https://www.emdserono.com/us-en/pi/serostim-pi.pdf

You can also do some rudimentary digging around and see pretty easily that there is no hard scientific evidence of human muscular hyperplasia from hgh use. In fact, we can find more science showing muscular hyperplasia doesn’t happen than does.

Individual and combined effects of age, breast density, and hormone replacement therapy use on the accuracy of screening mammography - PubMed

Mammographic breast density and age are important predictors of the accuracy of screening mammography. Although HRT use is not an independent predictor of accuracy, it probably affects accuracy by increasing breast density.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The above study found, “GH administration increased lean body mass but not strength or muscle fiber number.” This would suggest more that the theoretical hyperplasia via hgh is not real.

I’m not someone shitting on hgh to be clear. I think it’s nectar of the gods. I also do think hgh helps breakthrough plateaus in muscle growth, but I’m just unsure the exact mechanism of how.

 

[sneak007]

Yep, GH sucks for bodybuilding. Send your unopened vials to me for 'proper disposal '